Kargil Operations the PAF perspective

[Rank]

@Windjammer

IAF challenged PAF ; PAF refused the challenge

Fully AGREED with this statement .... its a bitter truth rest of all are ham ye kardetay ham woh kardetay bla blaaa! the shootdown of Indian fighter jets was done by "Ground defence system". So the story was quite simple, No PAF in Kargil War

 

[Windjammer]

We are discussing such sort of things which are new for ears of many Indian fellows who are used to believe that in Kargil war PAF was scared of IAF particularly their BVR capable Mig29. They even cooked up stories that PAF pilots resigned from their jobs when they were ordered to face IAF Mig29.
Considering a typical psyche of Indian fan boy, who believe that EFT were shot down by Su30 with no losses, Bisons shot down Falcons, Flankers shot down Eagles with no losses it become a tough job to drag them from fantasy to reality.
They believe IAF has highest crash rate in World because they push both pilot & aircraft to its extreme, they believe news of every "short coming" in their arsenal is actually an excuse to secure more funds from Government. In such situation it's impossible for them to digest what their minds are not "built" to understand.
And you sure are best in putting hand in Hornet nest @Windjammer

@Tipu7 , there's only so much you can discuss or disclose on an open forum, apparently PAF has monitored R/T recordings of IAF pilots where they are heard avoiding the F-16 during Kargil conflict like they were avoiding the F-104 in 1965.

 

[Sneaker]

PAF fighters did not shoot down the Indian fighters even though they were within range of the air-to-air missiles of the PAF fighters. The Indian fighters were perilously close to the Line of Control and their wreckage may have fallen inside Indian-held Kashmir territory which, going by their track record, would have given the Indian authorities the opportunity to blame the PAF for the intrusion.

It is funny why "Jabaaz PAF" did not shoot down any of the flights that violated LOC.. You guys have no problem sending troops to occupy vacant posts inside our side of LOC, but suddenly very conscious of getting the "blame"? yeah right... in all probability, escorting fulcrums had already scared the heck out of those poor chaps inside F-7s and our ground attack crafts happily hunted "intruders" at their leisure.. picking each bunkers and frying the poor souls inside them... but no, those burning pak soldiers weren't PAFs concern but getting blamed by India was...

 

[Stephen Cohen]

there's only so much you can discuss or disclose on an open forum, apparently PAF has monitored R/T recordings of IAF pilots where they are heard avoiding the F-16 during Kargil conflict like they were avoiding the F-104 in 1965.

PAF discontinued the MODEST -- Combat Air Patrol flights after Just ONE WEEK

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions. Random CAPs were resorted to, with a noticeable drop in border violations only as long as the F-16s were on station. There were a few cases of F-16s and Mirage-2000s locking their adversaries with the on-board radars but caution usually prevailed and no close encounters took place.

After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether.
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@Windjammer

IAF operations continued till July end

And PAF stopped operating after JUST one week

Now you tell me who is lying -- YOU or Kaiser Tufail

@Tipu7 , there's only so much you can discuss or disclose on an open forum, apparently PAF has monitored R/T recordings of IAF pilots where they are heard avoiding the F-16 during Kargil conflict like they were avoiding the F-104 in 1965.

We have released the Radio Transcripts of even LONGEWALA conflict

Why cant you do the same for kargil conflict That is IF you have ANY

This is the Radio intercept of Pakistan ARMY soldiers in Longewala asking for PAF support

 

[Windjammer]

It is funny why "Jabaaz PAF" did not shoot down any of the flights that violated LOC.. You guys have no problem sending troops to occupy vacant posts inside our side of LOC, but suddenly very conscious of getting the "blame"? yeah right... in all probability, escorting fulcrums had already scared the heck out of those poor chaps inside F-7s and our ground attack crafts happily hunted "intruders" at their leisure.. picking each bunkers and frying the poor souls inside them... but no, those burning pak soldiers weren't PAFs concern but getting blamed by India was...

Nothing more funnier than you characters, your soldiers trying to ascend the peaks were virtually being cut to pieces, we had you by the throat , hitting your supply lines, your army barracks and your telecommunications , all documented and all you can blabber is why didn't PAF jumped in, on the contrary what stopped you from attacking Pakistani posts....but yea all you can glorify is getting a lock on an F-16.....that too proved to be just another fib just to get your sorry tail up.

 

[dilpakistani]

1999 wasn't the time when Kargil level operation should have been carried out... we solely banked on the idea that India wouldn't start full scale war because of our nuclear weapon and our airforce will keep indian airfoce at bay... It was way too risky bet to make... PAF at that point had serious shortfall ... we didn't had all weather day night ability ... we didn't had bvr capability and didn't had credible standoff precision strike ability... IAF had them all .. They had day and night precision strike at hand... Their even most outdated aircraft had BVR ability... God forbids if war would have broken out .. PAF didn't had a chance...within 3 - 4 days IAF would have unchallenged skies over Pakistan... things have changed allot ever since though.. we now have day night standoff precision strike ability ... We have very reliable BVR capability... JF-17 is not comparable to frontline fighters of IAF but it really has given us a standing chance in terms precision strike and netcentric integrated intercept in time of conflict. With AWACS and Improved Ground radars we now have much better position than 1999.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF discontinued the MODEST -- Combat Air Patrol flights after Just ONE WEEK

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions. Random CAPs were resorted to, with a noticeable drop in border violations only as long as the F-16s were on station. There were a few cases of F-16s and Mirage-2000s locking their adversaries with the on-board radars but caution usually prevailed and no close encounters took place.

After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Windjammer

IAF operations continued till July end

And PAF stopped operating after JUST one week

Now you tell me who is lying -- YOU or Kaiser Tufail



We have released the Radio Transcripts of even LONGEWALA conflict

Why cant you do the same for kargil conflict That is IF you have ANY

This is the Radio intercept of Pakistan ARMY soldiers in Longewala asking for PAF support

Really....how old are you kid.... another bollywood victim.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Really....how old are you kid.... another bollywood victim.

And I want to KNOW ; where did you learn this ART OF LYING

One lie after another ; Jaguar ; Foxbat ; Kargil

 

[Sneaker]

Nothing more funnier than you characters, your soldiers trying to ascend the peaks were virtually being cut to pieces, we had you by the throat , hitting your supply lines, your army barracks and your telecommunications , all documented and all you can blabber is why didn't PAF jumped in, on the contrary what stopped you from attacking Pakistani posts....but yea all you can glorify is getting a lock on an F-16.....that too proved to be just another fib just to get your sorry tail up.

Yeah, that is why IAF was frying them, from tiger hill to muntho dhalo.. giving 2 flying fs about what pakistan may or may not accuse it of. But PAF was worried about its image rather that PA being bombed.. like a widow concerned about her makeup at her husband's funeral...

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

tasallee he hai chahy dil ko jitnee marzi day lo.

in the end we lost bhai g. and its a bitter truth.

PAF was indeed ready during kargil war and 2002 stand off. some parts of kargil is still in pakistan control.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Nothing more funnier than you characters, your soldiers trying to ascend the peaks were virtually being cut to pieces, we had you by the throat , hitting your supply lines, your army barracks and your telecommunications , all documented and all you can blabber is why didn't PAF jumped in, on the contrary what stopped you from attacking Pakistani posts....but yea all you can glorify is getting a lock on an F-16.....that too proved to be just another fib just to get your sorry tail up.

India's RETALIATION was so FIERCE that Pakistan was simply shocked and stunned
beyond belief

 

[LadyFinger]

I think all we needed was a change in country's management. Nukes will always be ready. All 4 forces of ours need to be combat ready.

PAF earns my respect for many things, but in the end always remember that spirit and will can destroy the biggest of threats, something like it was showed in 65.

Punish the enemy!
It is important.

Much love to our soldiers and volunteers!

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

Dil ko tasali deney sey nateja tabdeel nai ho jata.....
Are we discussing the conflict or the war here. ??? NO.....you see it took the Indians 50 years to finally admit that they lost around 40 aircraft due to PAF strikes in the first two days of 1965 war. There's plenty of false claims circulating even now which have to be countered and debunked... in any case, even now some Indians with their head on shoulders are admitting that India never won Kargil on it's own accord rather Pakistan and particularly Nawaz Shariff buckled under US pressure and forced to withdraw.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Xeric @Tipu7 @HRK

Your thoughts gentlemen.

One of the officers who was commanding during kargil war said that if PAF had supported us in the war, the war scenario would have changed. When army asked PAF to took active not defensive part in the war, the PAF refused by saying that first the army has to declare war. Nobody is blaming PAF because we all know its role in 65 war but that was 65 and we are talking about 98-99 period. So we just can't satisfy ourselves by just saying that PAF did wonders in 65 cause it did not played an active role in kargil war (with due appologies).

As for Nawaz sharif, did Nawaz sharif ordered the army to start the war or it was planned by army itself. Atleast give the credit to him if someone says that he was giving briefing about the war before it was started. That means he allowed the army to wage the war. Now it was army's responsibility to develop and execute the plans for the war not nawaz sharif'f responsibility. Whose plan failed, Nawaz or Musharraf? I mean its really easy to put all the blame on Nawaz sharif like he ordered the army to stop the war and the army obeyed right? so if it was so obedient then it would not had topple the elected government. Apart from this the plans for the war had no connection with the ground reality in Kargil. One of the officers sarcastically said that just look at the bunkers we make for our defense. It seems as if the army was not ready for a retaliation from the Indian side. since 1948 are we not hearing the same story again and again. There was no nawaz sharif in 1948, in 1965 or in 1971. Why was navy marines disbanded after 1971 war because it miserably failed so we can blame the politicians for the policies they make but once the war starts then it is something for which we are answerable not the politicians. We have to admit that something goes wrong each time when we have tried to take back Kashmir

India's RETALIATION was so FIERCE that Pakistan was simply shocked and stunned
beyond belief

Yes the retaliation was strong and maybe the capture of 5353 point was in response to that "STRONG RETALIATION". I admit that we have planning and implementation failures but just Indian army has nothing to be proud of. Alhamdulillah, Pakistan still exists on the map of the world and praise to Allah who always stops India's "STRONG RETALIATION" at India's own border. Don't forget, Pakistan army did not deployed the numbers which you deployed and yet you were unable to gain something huge other than defending your own turf against an army which is smaller than Indian's army. If Indian army was too confident then it would not have agreed for the cease fire. It would have crossed the borders.

We are discussing such sort of things which are new for ears of many Indian fellows who are used to believe that in Kargil war PAF was scared of IAF particularly their BVR capable Mig29. They even cooked up stories that PAF pilots resigned from their jobs when they were ordered to face IAF Mig29.
Considering a typical psyche of Indian fan boy, who believe that EFT were shot down by Su30 with no losses, Bisons shot down Falcons, Flankers shot down Eagles with no losses it become a tough job to drag them from fantasy to reality.
They believe IAF has highest crash rate in World because they push both pilot & aircraft to its extreme, they believe news of every "short coming" in their arsenal is actually an excuse to secure more funds from Government. In such situation it's impossible for them to digest what their minds are not "built" to understand.
And you sure are best in putting hand in Hornet nest @Windjammer

I agree. I don't get it that where do India get such news that xyz officer resigned from the pakistan army or xyz commanding officer was court martial after the war

 

[Erroroverload]

Dil ko tasali deney sey nateja tabdeel nai ho jata.....
Are we discussing the conflict or the war here. ??? NO.....you see it took the Indians 50 years to finally admit that they lost around 40 aircraft due to PAF strikes in the first two days of 1965 war. There's plenty of false claims circulating even now which have to be countered and debunked... in any case, even now some Indians with their head on shoulders are admitting that India never won Kargil on it's own accord rather Pakistan and particularly Nawaz Shariff buckled under US pressure and forced to withdraw.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Xeric @Tipu7 @HRK

Your thoughts gentlemen.

@Windjammer it isn't only about our air force its about our army and soldiers as well. they died there on Kargil peaks and we brutally left them cowardly saying that they were mujahidins and not Pak army. Indians were bombing on our soldiers and we were doing CAP's .
And by the way no lesson is learnt by PAF . We still think that with 76 F16s we can defeat IAF. no sir that's not true .

Dil ko tasali deney sey nateja tabdeel nai ho jata.....
Are we discussing the conflict or the war here. ??? NO.....you see it took the Indians 50 years to finally admit that they lost around 40 aircraft due to PAF strikes in the first two days of 1965 war. There's plenty of false claims circulating even now which have to be countered and debunked... in any case, even now some Indians with their head on shoulders are admitting that India never won Kargil on it's own accord rather Pakistan and particularly Nawaz Shariff buckled under US pressure and forced to withdraw.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Xeric @Tipu7 @HRK

Your thoughts gentlemen.

@Windjammer it isn't only about our air force its about our army and soldiers as well. they died there on Kargil peaks and we brutally left them cowardly saying that they were mujahidins and not Pak army. Indians were bombing on our soldiers and we were doing CAP's .
And by the way no lesson is learnt by PAF . We still think that with 76 F16s we can defeat IAF. no sir that's not true .

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

@Windjammer it isn't only about our air force its about our army and soldiers as well. they died there on Kargil peaks and we brutally left them cowardly saying that they were mujahidins and not Pak army. Indians were bombing on our soldiers and we were doing CAP's .
And by the way no lesson is learnt by PAF . We still think that with 76 F16s we can defeat IAF. no sir that's not true .


@Windjammer it isn't only about our air force its about our army and soldiers as well. they died there on Kargil peaks and we brutally left them cowardly saying that they were mujahidins and not Pak army. Indians were bombing on our soldiers and we were doing CAP's .
And by the way no lesson is learnt by PAF . We still think that with 76 F16s we can defeat IAF. no sir that's not true .

I agree. Someone recently was writing about one of the martyrs of pakistan army during kargil war so he requested the then commanding officer of the war to provide him some pictures of the martyr in uniform which were taken during the war. so the commanding officer replied that how can i give you pictures in uniform when we were ordered not to fight in uniforms. we were fighting in tracksuits