Kargil Operations the PAF perspective

[The Eagle]

Really sorry. I mistook you as wind jammer. he started the political party stuff.

No need to say sorry (It's OK) but all I want you to understand the topic in hand. Don't bring other events in this particular subject that we are discussing the Kargil alone(off-topic & derailing). @Windjammer stated the same thing that what I am trying to let you understand that what really happened in Kargil issue at the diplomatic end and don't forget NS is also the Zia's (RIP) gift (in short) that was a General & Dictator too. You are repeating the same thing again & again, fed by media or based upon political speeches. Rest is your choice.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

You people refused to receive your downed pilot in front of the media hence he had to be handed over to the Red Cross and yes ''Nishan-e-Haider'' is posthumous and only awarded after the enemy acknowledges the outstanding bravery and dedication beyond the call of duty by the recipient.... but then you awarded Vir Chakra to a soldier who later turned up alive....what's your point.

Undisputed ???...you mean on claimed by the Indians.
You know it's entertaining when those belonging to stupid and funny section suddenly become defence expert, let alone a fighter jet taking evasive manoeuvres, using chaff and disappearing amongst the mountains, if it were that simple, you would exactly know where your AN-32 went down, Even if PAF had no BVR capability back then, still there was a reason your aircraft had even within their own airspace, had to operate with an escort....but i don't expect you to understand this logic.

Indians have more credibility than Pakistanis with us having an open media. Hell we had even let an media group inside an Army base during war time. The information coming from Pakistan is just pure propaganda, just like how Pakistan was winning in 1971 war. Param Vir Chakra is awarded to soldiers who done bravery beyond normal human stamina. Doesnt matter if one is dead or alive. The thing is, if we hadnt honoured Sher Khan there would have no one to talk about his bravery. Tells about Indian open-ness and respect which obviously you lack.

The question is, why our aircraft has to cross LoC other than technical violations? Are you out of ur damn mind? We were not targetting PAF bases or PA lines are we?
The Mig 29 locking on F16 is a widely spread undisputed news, and I will believe that source than ur so called unsubstantiated write up propaganda's that Pak did not have any chicks in its armed forces. Even many Pakistani members here had quoted you not to spread falsehood and superiorty complex.

Logic is something which even Oxford dictionary cant teach you its meaning. You and ur BS propaganda's. Good day.

 

[Windjammer]

Indians have more credibility than Pakistanis with us having an open media. Hell we had even let an media group inside an Army base during war time. The information coming from Pakistan is just pure propaganda, just like how Pakistan was winning in 1971 war. Param Vir Chakra is awarded to soldiers who done bravery beyond normal human stamina. Doesnt matter if one is dead or alive. The thing is, if we hadnt honoured Sher Khan there would have no one to talk about his bravery. Tells about Indian open-ness and respect which obviously you lack.

BS, your media is hand in glove in creating propaganda to make you look good, we saw how your so called credible media was hiding behind every rock and boulder showing bodies being handed to Pakistan, did it show receiving any Indian bodies or your brilliant mind thinks no dead Indian soldier were handed over by Pakistan, our media indeed avoided this show of circus which only feeds the Indian habit and yes it's your so called open minds and media which puts you into a frenzy for capturing spy pigeons and all else.

The question is, why our aircraft has to cross LoC other than technical violations? Are you out of ur damn mind? We were not targetting PAF bases or PA lines are we?
The Mig 29 locking on F16 is a widely spread undisputed news, and I will believe that source than ur so called unsubstantiated write up propaganda's that Pak did not have any chicks in its armed forces. Even many Pakistani members here had quoted you not to spread falsehood and superiorty complex.

You see this is what happens when weekend warriors jump into a debate without an iota of knowledge on the debate....on the contrary, it's your bunch arguing why PAF didn't cross into India to counter the IAF.
But as expected, you neither have the knowledge or the ability to address the subject, being a victim of your falsified claims, there was just an attempted lock, successfully countered by the Falcon pilot who in fact turned the tables on the Fulcrum forcing him to leave the scene.

Logic is something which even Oxford dictionary cant teach you its meaning. You and ur BS propaganda's Good day.

If you were that clever you wouldn't be oozing BS just to make yourself credible alas i'm not having to resort about what others supposedly have said since those that DO matter know well where I'm coming from. sleep on that.

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

No need to say sorry (It's OK) but all I want you to understand the topic in hand. Don't bring other events in this particular subject that we are discussing the Kargil alone(off-topic & derailing). @Windjammer stated the same thing that what I am trying to let you understand that what really happened in Kargil issue at the diplomatic end and don't forget NS is also the Zia's (RIP) gift (in short) that was a General & Dictator too. You are repeating the same thing again & again, fed by media or based upon political speeches. Rest is your choice.

We can differ on a alot of issues but i guess one on which you will also agree with me is that whatever we did in 48, 65 and in kargil war we did it for the people of kashmir. When news/surveys such as the one given in the link below comes up, it really upsets me.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1556139371361394

 

[Asian.Century]

Frankly the last ROE is pretty pathetic when you are in War Scenario

Rules Of Engagements
According to the PAF Rules of Engagement (ROE), three conditions have to be met in peacetime before an enemy aircraft can be shot down: (i) the enemy aircraft must violate Pakistan's airspace; (ii) it must be a combat aircraft and (iii) its wreckage must fall inside Pakistani territory. 'Peacetime' in the context of India and Pakistan means when no war has been declared.

In that Kargil War Pakistan managed to destroy Indian Aircrafts: a MiG-27ML and a MiG-21bis - were shot down by the Air Defence Command of the Pakistan Army using Anza-II SAMs after the IAF jets had violated Pakistan's airspace in the Jammu & Kashmir region.

Lessons learnt by PAF
PAF after the conflict learned that:
1/- PAF was lacking BVR capability. A commission was set up and F-16 aircraft conducted live tests of AIM-7F missiles. Chinese version of AIM-7 was also tested but was turned down. South African DARTER series of missiles was approached and successful negotiations took place for the armament for PAF ROSE-II Mirages.
2/- PAF decided to equip all aircraft with all aspect close combat missiles and gradually modified all aircraft to carry AIM-9L and Magic-II all aspect short range missiles.
3/- PAF showed interest in Chinese FT-2000A system which was looked at with suspicion by India that Pakistan might have inducted this system, which in fact is still suspected today.

 

[Itachi]

Frankly the last ROE is pretty pathetic when you are in War Scenario

Self limiting ROE...

And ROE's are bs in itself. Tons of countries have and still go against them. Heck, didn't the Feb 27th, 2019 incident happen because Indian aircraft came inside Pakistani territory??

 

[KhanBaba2]

And ROE's are bs in itself.

ROEs prevent incidents from exploding into something much bigger.

 

[Itachi]

ROEs prevent incidents from exploding into something much bigger.

True but if one side can dare to attack the other. The other shouldn't start applying ROE's to themselves that are self limiting.

 

[Asian.Century]

Self limiting ROE...

And ROE's are bs in itself. Tons of countries have and still go against them. Heck, didn't the Feb 27th, 2019 incident happen because Indian aircraft came inside Pakistani territory??

Self limiting, what if fire from across border those BVRs and PAF will never engage as per the ROE: (iii) its wreckage must fall inside Pakistani territory. 'Peacetime' in the context of India and Pakistan means when no war has been declared. Total bullshit ROE, PAF should be more offensive, in terms of a single bomb that falls inside, Pakistan should fired and attacked those enemy aircrafts.

 

[BATMAN]

That was a shame that PAF wasn't allowed to strike back at Indian ammunition dumps, on the God gifted occasion of 27th February, 2019.
There shall be an inquiry on Pakistan's pullout at moments when Indian defense forces were in complete disarray.