JF17 versus MKI

[Regal]

First of I just wanted to say a quick Hello to everyone as you can see I just joined this forum. Now that’s out of the way I must tell you that I am no expert but I think in an ideal situation jf-17’s crew would turn off there radars and relay on ground based (GCI) and air based “Erieye” radars to try to sneak up behind the intruders, turn on there radars for a bit and launch the SD-10. That should take care of the MKI’s without putting our nice little war birds in harms way. Then again this is an ideal situation lets just say if things are not so fortunate in the air and the MKI’s also have the complete AWACS support then it will make things bit more difficult but still achievable.

 

[melb4aust]

First of I just wanted to say a quick Hello to everyone as you can see I just joined this forum. Now that’s out of the way I must tell you that I am no expert but I think in an ideal situation jf-17’s crew would turn off there radars and relay on ground based (GCI) and air based “Erieye” radars to try to sneak up behind the intruders, turn on there radars for a bit and launch the SD-10. That should take care of the MKI’s without putting our nice little war birds in harms way. Then again this is an ideal situation lets just say if things are not so fortunate in the air and the MKI’s also have the complete AWACS support then it will make things bit more difficult but still achievable.

Good point, Still i think its not all going to BVR fight, surely at some point some fighters jets may have to engage in a WVR or dogfight, where short range, heat seeking missiles will come handy. And thats where AIM-9X sidewinder will be an absolute killer, if Pakistan able to get there hands on it, AIM-9M would'nt be that bad either.

 

[Neo]

First of I just wanted to say a quick Hello to everyone as you can see I just joined this forum. Now that’s out of the way I must tell you that I am no expert but I think in an ideal situation jf-17’s crew would turn off there radars and relay on ground based (GCI) and air based “Erieye” radars to try to sneak up behind the intruders, turn on there radars for a bit and launch the SD-10. That should take care of the MKI’s without putting our nice little war birds in harms way. Then again this is an ideal situation lets just say if things are not so fortunate in the air and the MKI’s also have the complete AWACS support then it will make things bit more difficult but still achievable.

Welcome to PFF Regal!

You raise an interesting question, technically I'm, not sure if this tactic is possible.
We need experts to answer that.
Maybe OoE or the General have an answer.

 

[ajaybhutani]

could you let me know the indian's opinion about the possibilities of the conflict or warfare between china and india in future and the possible action of indian government to the best of your knowledge.

it is just my personal interest.

possibility of a military conflict.. grow up none of the two sides are foolish nough to do in the the medium future.. and long term it really depends on the economic interdependence etc..
possible action of indian govt?? what do you want to ask.. either you have no idea of what you are looking for from this question.. or you want to hear about some specific scenario.. ask more specific questions for more specific answers.

 

[ajaybhutani]

indian goal is to have a city thats as advance as chinese Shanghai or Hong Kong....... lol

and who told you that.. ???

 

[ajaybhutani]

I dont why u mocked.

Seriously there was a drive in such a manner a yr ago,but was washed out with the flash floods.:p

We dont have a city or a single road that can be a match for Shanghai or Hongkong

we dont need to match shanghai or hong kong.. aim is simple.. uplift the poor.. and thats it .. whatever it takes to do that..

 

[ajaybhutani]

i am very interested in this post, and tried in the past days to look for some information about the two kinds of fighters. of course, the info is not enough.

i just would like to discuss with everyone interested in this post about the possible result.

4 JF-17 vs 4 mki. first of all, i consider mki shall at least include 2 sets of a2a roles accompanying a2g roles, which may be more practical in the set warfire.

but my conclusion is that all the a2g mki will be beated down by if they would not give up their mission, and a2a roles may remain. the 4 jf-17 will be beated down by mki a2a roles.

well as you have already made your claim .. now its time to support it.. define a A2A mki and a A2G mki..
Define which year..
1. again firstly define which territory .. paksitani/indian/neutral..
2. define mission role for all planes.. lets say attack on some paksitani installation or some indian installation.. define ground support..
3. define aramaments in both the planes.. from the amount of fuel to ECM pods to A2A missiles to A2G missiles. on both planes.. and keep them more realistic as to what will be available from both sides.. ( for instance by the time SD10 is available with JF17 for paksitan then air launched brahmos will be available for MKI..)

if it is 6 jf-17 vs 4 mki. all of the mki would be beated down if they would not give up commission and fly back to base.

again analysis for this situtation.

it is my tentative opinion and wish to to have yours hereof.

i am eagerly awaiting for the basis of your decisions..

 

[ajaybhutani]

let me know the data you have to prove mkk's radar is inferior to mki.

do your own analysis.. radars are freely available info for both the planes.. a simple google should do the job.. if you still cant i'll help you out withthe links..if we both differ only then is any use of discussing this further.

do you think mkk and mki have the same purposes in battle?

no .. they dont MKK is a A2S specialist..while MKI is multirole..

are you sure mki will defeat mkk in the air battle? let me know how?

yes it will both in BVR and WVR .. simpley due to extensive difference in radar performance ,engine TVC and better avionics in MKI.

 

[ajaybhutani]

First of I just wanted to say a quick Hello to everyone as you can see I just joined this forum. Now that’s out of the way I must tell you that I am no expert but I think in an ideal situation jf-17’s crew would turn off there radars and relay on ground based (GCI) and air based “Erieye” radars to try to sneak up behind the intruders, turn on there radars for a bit and launch the SD-10. That should take care of the MKI’s without putting our nice little war birds in harms way. Then again this is an ideal situation lets just say if things are not so fortunate in the air and the MKI’s also have the complete AWACS support then it will make things bit more difficult but still achievable.

you are missing an important fact here. and thats the numerical superiority in favour of india. just due to more no of planes..
i we can look at the scenario if you can validate it more data.. for instace .. what was getting protected by the eireye AWACS.. was MKi attacking some ground target or mission was to bring down the awacs.. were the paksitanis caught unawares if not /yes then how many pakistani planes to protect the awacs.. then did the indians know the awacs are there.( of course they should.. as its quite easy to detect an awac from sattelites.. which indians have plenty..).. then how much of a counter attack will indians send ( or even how much can they afford to send) what will be the combination of planes sent?? will they send only MKI's.??
what will be the impact of SAM's on paksitans side on the whole scenario..?

then we need radar ranges .. . and how far away are mki's from the indian border.. to ensure that JF17's can sneak in behind mki's without entering the indian airspace( as indian airspace will be supported by a lot of SAM's.. or )

or was it a paksitani attack in indian territory.. but then it wont be supported by awacs.. usually defence will be provided by planes like LCA,mig29 , MRCA and not the MKI's. and of course they will face a numerical superiority as they are attackers.

 

[ajaybhutani]

Good point, Still i think its not all going to BVR fight, surely at some point some fighters jets may have to engage in a WVR or dogfight, where short range, heat seeking missiles will come handy. And thats where AIM-9X sidewinder will be an absolute killer, if Pakistan able to get there hands on it, AIM-9M would'nt be that bad either.

IS AIM9X better than R73.. i havent found any good analysis of both online..
what makes you rule out R73 laden MKI with TVC vs a AIM9x JF17.. oh and the biggest .. US will not give pakistan source codes.. that implies AIM9X cant be used with JF17..

 

[jiangxueen2k]

well as you have already made your claim .. now its time to support it.. define a A2A mki and a A2G mki..
Define which year..
1. again firstly define which territory .. paksitani/indian/neutral..
2. define mission role for all planes.. lets say attack on some paksitani installation or some indian installation.. define ground support..
3. define aramaments in both the planes.. from the amount of fuel to ECM pods to A2A missiles to A2G missiles. on both planes.. and keep them more realistic as to what will be available from both sides.. ( for instance by the time SD10 is available with JF17 for paksitan then air launched brahmos will be available for MKI..)



again analysis for this situtation.

i am eagerly awaiting for the basis of your decisions..

as mentioned before, i am interested in this post, and wish to discuss with more friends about the possible result. after all, we are not experts, airforce commanders or fighter pilots.

i made a tentative claim and would like to have more claims from others. since you consider more details needs to define, please go on. you may set the necessary conditions and let everybody here to judge if they are reasonable and your claim resonable.

i think during our discussion, more reasonable complementarity will emerge, which is more important and helpful to everyone here.

 

[jiangxueen2k]

do your own analysis.. radars are freely available info for both the planes.. a simple google should do the job.. if you still cant i'll help you out withthe links..if we both differ only then is any use of discussing this further.

Thanks. please let me know the links.

no .. they dont MKK is a A2S specialist..while MKI is multirole..

OK.

yes it will both in BVR and WVR .. simpley due to extensive difference in radar performance ,engine TVC and better avionics in MKI.

Could you let me know more details (or links) about the difference in radar performance and avionics between them? thanks.

 

[malik ateeq]

i think don,t compair fighter with each other . every country have won plan to defened and attack. DEAR you also forget pakistan and india have atmoic bomb and missile of every kind. now a days missile play main role in attack. missile in less cost to develop and target.

 

[sword9]

This thread started with a hypothetical senarioi and ended up more or less as a slug match. But getting back to the thread about 4 MKIs in A2G role and 4 in A2A role and their probability of success.

Before such a mission is carried out, there shall be two types of missions that will be launched a before attacking the designated target. These will be SEAD and "kill AWACS" missions. It will be necessary to blind the PAF air defences before going in.

Surprisingly no one mentioned SEAD missions prior to the MKIs launching their attack.

 

[Keysersoze]

I think the inherent problem with this whole scenario is that it would NEVER be done in isolation.There would always be external factors. Maybe if there is a computer based aircraft simulator you guys can test it for the sake of arguement but other wise it is just plain guesswork as none of us has flown either craft (unless one of you is hiding a secret.) and are unaware of the actual capabilites of said aircraft.