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JF17 is an aircraft of present,Tejas is an aircraft of future - IAF chief

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So?
Every pakistani poster here resorts to the same strawman argument.
So what if JF-17 has more planes flying, how does that translate to it being better than Tejas?
I guess you have a point since there's no difference between PDF posters and the IAF Airchief, as they both resort to same claims.
The difference between the two is same as in K-8 and the Sitara, the successful goes into mass production gets sold all over the world while the other keeps going back to the drawing board.
Maybe have the gall to fly JF-17 in the same air show as the Tejas and try not run away at the last moment after seeing IAF fly their indigenous machine, then talk about how you have flown in oh so many airshows.
You Indians are dense beyond belief, first acquire some knowledge as what really transpires as an airshow, after 30 years your Tejas makes it two a second tier show more inclined with the civilian entity and you creatures crawl out of your skin, before blabbering nonsense, first acquire the confidence for the Tejas to make a decent appearance on your Republic day.....BTW, find out how many fighter jets were actually present at BAS then knock yourself out.
Also, the first air to air kill of JF-17 is a drone flown by Iran, maybe your military will finally gather their courage and American drones will get the same treatment from JF-17s as they operate inside your territory and once in a while kill your citizens.............NOT.
It's still a more credible kill than your SU-30 shooting down a balloon, the only kill in it's history.
And now the typical Indian escape by dragging in a third party, not that you have lost the argument but also proves your own nature and desperation.....talking about drones, have your soldiers learned to distinguish between satellites and planets yet.
And any new terminologies being created by your MOD to keep the mischief going.




A
 
Very Simple
JF 17 is operational for today as required by PAF
Block-1 operational
Block-2 operational
Block-B ready

The Current variant of LCA Tejas is not ready for today's requirements of IAF
As Said by IAF Chief.
If you will check with the parameters IAF requires, none of the block would be operational...
Understand the difference, IAF wants all the things from day 1 while paf inducted a half baked aircraft to fullfill its squadron.
If you will genuinely compare jf blk2 with mk1 you will find many things that are there in mk1 but absent from even blk2.
 
And you can induct a half baked aircraft tommaro and keep boasting about its numbers
Half baked? Comparable to Gripen.
While the pocket mirage is still nowhere.. except on paper.

With a pathetic combat radius,59 min endurance, 20 hour maintenance after 59 mins of flying,smaller AoA and other pathetic capabilities..
 
I guess you have a point since there's no difference between PDF posters and the IAF Airchief, as they both resort to same claims.
The difference between the two is same as in K-8 and the Sitara, the successful goes into mass production gets sold all over the world while the other keeps going back to the drawing board.


Actually, IAF chief like air chiefs of any other airforce whenever they claim something their words carry weight and you might not accept it infront of Indians but deep down you know it to be true.
Its just that when they say something negative about their own respective airforces you pdf pakistanis love swallowing and regurgitating it back to anyone who's listening, the claims suddenly become legitimate and the claimant becomes learned and experienced, but heavens forbid if those very air chiefs say something that doesn't confirm to pakistani biases, pdf pakistanis will then go to any lengths to deny it.

As for K-8, just like in the case of JF-17, K-8(Hongdu JL-8) is again something pakistan has no hand in R&Ding but is always first to parade it as their own.

You Indians are dense beyond belief, first acquire some knowledge as what really transpires as an airshow, after 30 years your Tejas makes it two a second tier show more inclined with the civilian entity and you creatures crawl out of your skin, before blabbering nonsense, first acquire the confidence for the Tejas to make a decent appearance on your Republic day.....BTW, find out how many fighter jets were actually present at BAS then knock yourself out.

Second tier?
Why is the quality of the airshow the point of contention for you lot? Do fancy airshows somehow make different aircrafts perform differently?

BIAS wasn't second tier for F-22s but its second tier for pakistanis?
If it was "second tier" they why did PAF register for it in the first place, paid the fees and then backed out at the last second?
Things becomes "second tier" when you lot are caught with with your pants down, eh?

As for confidence.
Tejas has already flown in our Republic days.
And again, have the guts to not back out after you have committed to flying in the same environment as Tejas maybe then all your witty ripostes about confidence will actually seem legit.


It's still a more credible kill than your SU-30 shooting down a balloon, the only kill in it's history.
And now the typical Indian escape by dragging in a third party, not that you have lost the argument but also proves your own nature and desperation.....talking about drones, have your soldiers learned to distinguish between satellites and planets yet.
And any new terminologies being created by your MOD to keep the mischief going
.

Escape?
You already see the flaw in your fallacious strawman argument hence the disingenuous attempt at preempting it.

And like I told the other guy, even F-22 doesn't have an air-to-air kill, so I suppose by pakistani logic it is inferior to the mighty JF-17.

Maybe first go beyond screaming from your couches to actually shooting down a US drone that regularly makes a joke of your sovereignty and kills and maims pakistanis, then talk about air-to-air kills.
 
So?
Every pakistani poster here resorts to the same strawman argument.
So what if JF-17 has more planes flying, how does that translate to it being better than Tejas?

Maybe have the gall to fly JF-17 in the same air show as the Tejas and try not run away at the last moment after seeing IAF fly their indigenous machine, then talk about how you have flown in oh so many airshows.

Also, the first air to air kill of JF-17 is a drone flown by Iran, maybe your military will finally gather their courage and American drones will get the same treatment from JF-17s as they operate inside your territory and once in a while kill your citizens.............NOT.
Use common sense, which you Indians are badly missing. How you can compare a paper plane with a flying machine? When you get it really inducted in IAF, then compare it with a plane which is not only have been inducted and used in fighting, but also have integrated tens of weapon systems. All your BS of 'will have this or that' might give some satisfaction to your tiny brain but you appear as laughing a$$ to any sensible person.
 
So?
Every pakistani poster here resorts to the same strawman argument.
So what if JF-17 has more planes flying, how does that translate to it being better than Tejas?

Maybe have the gall to fly JF-17 in the same air show as the Tejas and try not run away at the last moment after seeing IAF fly their indigenous machine, then talk about how you have flown in oh so many airshows.

Also, the first air to air kill of JF-17 is a drone flown by Iran, maybe your military will finally gather their courage and American drones will get the same treatment from JF-17s as they operate inside your territory and once in a while kill your citizens.............NOT.




Another strawman argument.
JF-17 is free from comparison and is somehow better than Tejas because it flew in a parade before Tejas? That's the proofs and puddings you can come up with? What nonsense.

JF-17 was inducted earlier because Americans weren't selling you their F-16s, you didn't have enough money and you needed cheap filler aircrafts to maintain some semblance of numbers in a dwindling air force, as compared to IAF which was regularly inducting Su-30s, MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s, hence you inducted a fighter which wasn't even ready and is yet to have subsystems which were made mandatory for Tejas for its initial induction.

Maybe you are asking people to ignore about the various subsystems in Tejas vs the JF-17 is because you already know how they fare, or maybe you can tell us which part exactly is exaggerated?

The only argument for the JF-17 is that it's operational. And by next year, even that will be gone. The Pak members here are unable to digest this fact.
 
Half baked? Comparable to Gripen.
While the pocket mirage is still nowhere.. except on paper.

With a pathetic combat radius,59 min endurance, 20 hour maintenance after 59 mins of flying,smaller AoA and other pathetic capabilities..
You are comparing jf with Gripen...
What a joke..
Acc to your logic China left a aircraft comparable to Gripen for j10...
And yes jf was half baked aircraft when paf inducted it... You also know it...
 
Actually, IAF chief like air chiefs of any other airforce whenever they claim something their words carry weight and you might not accept it infront of Indians but deep down you know it to be true.
Its just that when they say something negative about their own respective airforces you pdf pakistanis love swallowing and regurgitating it back to anyone who's listening, the claims suddenly become legitimate and the claimant becomes learned and experienced, but heavens forbid if those very air chiefs say something that doesn't confirm to pakistani biases, pdf pakistanis will then go to any lengths to deny it.
Having to fly the MiG-21, making tall claims of being able to fight a two front war and using unprofessional and frivolous terms, the IAF Chief will do well to convince his pilots and the bewildered Bhartis as no one in Pakistan takes him seriously....and remember you characters come here to learn so try not to box above your weight.
As for K-8, just like in the case of JF-17, K-8(Hongdu JL-8) is again something pakistan has no hand in R&Ding but is always first to parade it as their own.
The old proverb is, if you can't beat them then join them, but the Indian losers believe in the principals of if you can't beat them then grudge them.....your heartburn is obvious and understandable.

Second tier?
Why is the quality of the airshow the point of contention for you lot? Do fancy airshows somehow make different aircrafts perform differently?
As i said first acquire some comprehension as how many fighter jets were actually present on the ground then fancy your Tejas being present there.
BIAS wasn't second tier for F-22s but its second tier for pakistanis?
Stupidity doesn't come alone but i guess it helps to be an Indian, who think making a simple flypast over the venue is same as the F-22 participating in the airshow'
If it was "second tier" they why did PAF register for it in the first place, paid the fees and then backed out at the last second?
Things becomes "second tier" when you lot are caught with with your pants down, eh?
So going by your wise wisdom, PAF pulled out of the BAS due to the presence of Tejas but hey the Tejas went ahead even though F-22 was there....Lol you Indians really need to get in touch with civilisation.
As for confidence.
Tejas has already flown in our Republic days.
And again, have the guts to not back out after you have committed to flying in the same environment as Tejas maybe then all your witty ripostes about confidence will actually seem legit.
Yea, fifteen years after making first flight, it did a simple run over the parade venue, where as the JF-17 within four years of making first flight, it was performing over the venue and does so on regular basis.....first acquire the capsability and confidence to perform for the home crowd before smacking yourself to just to get rosy cheeks.
Escape?
You already see the flaw in your fallacious strawman argument hence the disingenuous attempt at preempting it.
What does US has to do in a discussion relating to India/Pakistan except you digressing to save face
And like I told the other guy, even F-22 doesn't have an air-to-air kill, so I suppose by pakistani logic it is inferior to the mighty JF-17.
Again you are dragging in an American product to salvage your tiny ego.....well let me put you in your deserving place, the F-22 belongs to USAF, which like any professional air force and capable air force doesn't have to paint a wreck of it's own aircraft in say Vietnamese or Iraqi airforce colours but then there is off course the Agni Pankh, reportedly 4th largest air arm in the world which obviously displays same level as rag tag Talibans in it's propaganda just to keep a billion Ostriches nurtured.....oh let me show you what it really means to be caught with pants down.

images

Maybe first go beyond screaming from your couches to actually shooting down a US drone that regularly makes a joke of your sovereignty and kills and maims pakistanis, then talk about air-to-air kills.
Maybe you should get off the net from being some expert on Pakistan affairs and try to work on the humiliation and embarrassment repeatedly brought upon you by your armed forces, if it's not the claims of capturing some spy pigeon or exercise claims like a cricket score, it's the recent disclosure by your PM on the so called surgical strikes....not forgetting the ludicrous claims of sortie count in the recent exercise.....or you can just wait for the next clanger.... which is never far away.
 
The only argument for the JF-17 is that it's operational. And by next year, even that will be gone. The Pak members here are unable to digest this fact.
The only one having problem here is you, the fact is your Tejas started life some 30 years earlier, it made it's maiden flight in 2001, yet after 17 years it's still crawling where as JF-17 first flew in 2003, in 15 years it's gone leaps and bounds.....since you Bhartis have the habit of washing the soap before hands and knowing your industry's track record, next year is likely to cause more heartburn and indigestion for you lot.
 
The only one having problem here is you, the fact is your Tejas started life some 30 years earlier, it made it's maiden flight in 2001, yet after 17 years it's still crawling where as JF-17 first flew in 2003, in 15 years it's gone leaps and bounds.....since you Bhartis have the habit of washing the soap before hands and knowing your industry's track record, next year is likely to cause more heartburn and indigestion for you lot.

We must have been so far ahead in our thinking that we started development of Tejas decades before the JF-17 and still came out with a better product 30 years later. I'm still looking forward to a JF-17 that has the same technologies as the LCA Mk1, never mind what's coming next.

Nothing you people are capable of doing can affect our bowel movement. :lol:
 
The only one having problem here is you, the fact is your Tejas started life some 30 years earlier, it made it's maiden flight in 2001, yet after 17 years it's still crawling where as JF-17 first flew in 2003, in 15 years it's gone leaps and bounds.....since you Bhartis have the habit of washing the soap before hands and knowing your industry's track record, next year is likely to cause more heartburn and indigestion for you lot.
jammer bhiyye talk big and be little Tejas even in Blk MK1 when JF17 even is its Future BLKIII gets

1. 45% of its full Body Wieght & 99% of its skin made in carbon composties like LCA MK1

2.or $ chalnell Digital Fly By Wire loke LCA MK1

3. 90+ HOBS & Litenin3 G3 LDP like LCAMK1

4 OBOGS & Matavee type unified EW+ECM like LCA MK1

rest dont eventalk about big things your PAF cant afford them not now not in futire so lets not go whats MK1A has in store :sarcastic:
 
We must have been so far ahead in our thinking that we started development of Tejas decades before the JF-17 and still came out with a better product 30 years later. I'm still looking forward to a JF-17 that has the same technologies as the LCA Mk1, never mind what's coming next.

Nothing you people are capable of doing can affect our bowel movement. :lol:
Actually you people seem to be in a reverse mode since you earlier laid claims to making the likes of HF-24 and the Kiran series of Jet trainers, yet still are working on a Light Combat Aircraft some 30 years later, also to keep the masses convinced, the likes of HAL, DRDO and ADA make a song and dance about every time they put a nut to bolt which the PDF Indians often post as breaking news. The PAF and PAC however quietly goes about it's business, there was no fanfare about JF-17 successfully firing the BVR systems and there's certainly no breaking news on JF-17's capability in it's maritime strike role or how it's gradually taking over ADA duties from the F-16s.
Oh there's at least one IAF pilot who would disagree with your last sentence, !!!

jammer bhiyye talk big and be little Tejas even in Blk MK1 when JF17 even is its Future BLKIII gets

1. 45% of its full Body Wieght & 99% of its skin made in carbon composties like LCA MK1

2.or $ chalnell Digital Fly By Wire loke LCA MK1

3. 90+ HOBS & Litenin3 G3 LDP like LCAMK1

4 OBOGS & Matavee type unified EW+ECM like LCA MK1

rest dont eventalk about big things your PAF cant afford them not now not in futire so lets not go whats MK1A has in store :sarcastic:
With 62 negative ratings and being banned repeatedly, one would think that some sense would prevail but person who can only talk big have no other ways to contribute hence treated likewise.
 
Having to fly the MiG-21, making tall claims of being able to fight a two front war and using unprofessional and frivolous terms, the IAF Chief will do well to convince his pilots and the bewildered Bhartis as no one in Pakistan takes him seriously....and remember you characters come here to learn so try not to box above your weight.

What are you actually pissed off at?
The fact that our air chief is stating what our other air chiefs have always stated or that what he said actually realizes your worst fears?

Also, if what our ACM said didn't irk you pakistanis you wouldn't have been making 20 different threads to discuss what our ACM said weeks ago and still discussing it.

As for coming to pdf, we come here to see the opposing pov and as for boxing above the weight we come here coz you lot certainly don't have the fortitude to come to our pitch.

The old proverb is, if you can't beat them then join them, but the Indian losers believe in the principals of if you can't beat them then grudge them.....your heartburn is obvious and understandable.

Actually, our principle is try and try until you get there, which we eventually do.
Unlike you lot we don't just skip from 1 sugar daddy(USA then, China now) to the other, coz we all know in the end they tend to backstab you. How long until China denies you tech?
We'd rather have our own product than depend on anyone else.
It takes time but we get there, always.
You lot on the other hand always have to look for someone to do your job for you.

The point being, right now, you have neither the monetary nor the intellectual capacity to even R&D a jet trainer.


As i said first acquire some comprehension as how many fighter jets were actually present on the ground then fancy your Tejas being present there.

Why does that matter pray tell?
If JF-17s had flown it would still be compared to Tejas, what do other fighter aircrafts flying have to do anything with Tejas and JFT?
You are just looking for excuses at this point.

Stupidity doesn't come alone but i guess it helps to be an Indian, who think making a simple flypast over the venue is same as the F-22 participating in the airshow'

Check your facts.

I suppose BIAS is second tier for F-16s and Typhoon as well
Looks soooo much like a simple F-22 flypast

So going by your wise wisdom, PAF pulled out of the BAS due to the presence of Tejas but hey the Tejas went ahead even though F-22 was there....Lol you Indians really need to get in touch with civilisation.

Regurgitating hypotheticals, getting desperate now are we?
You are just losing your thread of thought, no one is interested in your hypothesis here's what happened, IAF was a late entrant in the BIAS 2016 while PAF had registered and paid the participation fee, but turned tail at the very end without any given reason right after IAF said they were sending the Tejas.

Why should we fear the F-22?
It is already better than Tejas in every metric, there is no competition.
Competition is with JF-17, as both it and the Tejas are in the same weight class.



Yea, fifteen years after making first flight, it did a simple run over the parade venue, where as the JF-17 within four years of making first flight, it was performing over the venue and does so on regular basis.....first acquire the capsability and confidence to perform for the home crowd before smacking yourself to just to get rosy cheeks
.

Another strawman argument.
Your rhetoric is a poor excuse for a show of confidence.

Again without actually turning tail at the last second, fly the JF-17 in the same airshow as Tejas then talk about confidence.


What does US has to do in a discussion relating to India/Pakistan except you digressing to save face

What does Su-30MKI have to do with JF-17 & Tejas?
You were the only one digressing, I just gave you lot the taste of your own medicine; if you cannot take it don't dish it.

Again you are dragging in an American product to salvage your tiny ego.....well let me put you in your deserving place, the F-22 belongs to USAF, which like any professional air force and capable air force doesn't have to paint a wreck of it's own aircraft in say Vietnamese or Iraqi airforce colours but then there is off course the Agni Pankh, reportedly 4th largest air arm in the world which obviously displays same level as rag tag Talibans in it's propaganda just to keep a billion Ostriches nurtured.....oh let me show you what it really means to be caught with pants down.


F-22 was an analogy to expose your weak argument.
Rest of your rhetoric is plain strawman yet again.


Maybe you should get off the net from being some expert on Pakistan affairs and try to work on the humiliation and embarrassment repeatedly brought upon you by your armed forces, if it's not the claims of capturing some spy pigeon or exercise claims like a cricket score, it's the recent disclosure by your PM on the so called surgical strikes....not forgetting the ludicrous claims of sortie count in the recent exercise.....or you can just wait for the next clanger.... which is never far away.

Pakistan is simple, you don't need to be an expert to know what's going on.

We all know which airforce sits idly by as their soldiers are getting fire bombed, so lets not skip topics willy nilly.

Humiliation would be a country begging for goodies from USA while the amkreekis delay and divert not giving those very same weapons to the said country, while simultaneously punishing the said country diplomatically and infringe its sovereignty and drone bomb them regularly.
That's humiliation.

Our sortie rates stand true, only a biased person or an idiot would believe some random buthurt pakistani on an internet forum over a living serving ACM.
Either way, it doesn't matter if pakistanis can't digest it, even the Chinese see it to be true.


The only one having problem here is you, the fact is your Tejas started life some 30 years earlier, it made it's maiden flight in 2001, yet after 17 years it's still crawling where as JF-17 first flew in 2003, in 15 years it's gone leaps and bounds.....since you Bhartis have the habit of washing the soap before hands and knowing your industry's track record, next year is likely to cause more heartburn and indigestion for you lot.

Still crawling?
What was JF-17's production rate in the initial few years after its induction in 2007?
Let me save you the time, it was the same as Tejas' is now after its induction in 2016.

As for the industry track record.
Of the original 230 Su-30MKIs 90 are sourced from Russia whereas the rest are all made in India including the AL-31FP engine and other critical units, with a variety of subsystems developed indigenously in India and its production rate far greater than pakistan wrt JF-17.
HAL has surpassed the original stipulated numbers of 230 and currently has produced upto 240 MKIs.

Now you pakistanis will say MKIs aren't Indian, so isn't JF-17 pakistani either, as it is "joint venture" in name only as all its R&D work is done by China with pakistan having little to nil to contribute in it.
Only difference is pakistan in the so called joint venture doesn't make a single crucial subsystem or makes as much of the JF-17 in pakistan as we do in India the Su-30MKIs.

Expect the same with Tejas.


Use common sense, which you Indians are badly missing. How you can compare a paper plane with a flying machine? When you get it really inducted in IAF, then compare it with a plane which is not only have been inducted and used in fighting, but also have integrated tens of weapon systems. All your BS of 'will have this or that' might give some satisfaction to your tiny brain but you appear as laughing a$$ to any sensible person.

Tejas was inducted into the IAF back in 2016.
 
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Actually you people seem to be in a reverse mode since you earlier laid claims to making the likes of HF-24 and the Kiran series of Jet trainers, yet still are working on a Light Combat Aircraft some 30 years later, also to keep the masses convinced, the likes of HAL, DRDO and ADA make a song and dance about every time they put a nut to bolt which the PDF Indians often post as breaking news. The PAF and PAC however quietly goes about it's business, there was no fanfare about JF-17 successfully firing the BVR systems and there's certainly no breaking news on JF-17's capability in it's maritime strike role or how it's gradually taking over ADA duties from the F-16s.
Oh there's at least one IAF pilot who would disagree with your last sentence, !!!

A light/medium aircraft is what we wanted and we are getting it.

And no, the Indian MIC doesn't have as much respect among the masses as you think. The biggest critics of the LCA program have been Indians after all.

Pak military have always been quiet about it. Civilians only have the illusion of control in Pakistan. And there's nothing special on the JF-17 to brag about. At least the LCA is getting all sorts of new and unique technologies, similar to what's gone into Rafale, Gripen and Typhoon.

I know many people who would disagree with me, but I know many people who agree with me as well. And there are many people who disagreed with me before, but now agree with me. I was also one of those who disagreed with the points I am making now. But that's the ability you get in a society where you are trained to be able to distance yourself from bias and think more rationally.

Stop thinking of LCA as being an Indian aircraft and start generating informed opinions about it without any bias, you will notice that things have changed drastically since the time of the first IOC in 2011.

The LCA Mk1 is a joke, as far as the IAF is concerned, but it's still a much better aircraft than the JF-17 Block 1 & 2. But the next versions are way too superior to be compared to either the LCA Mk1 or the JF-17.
 
may be this video could prevail some sense in loudmouth indian member and they stop comparing a failed Project with a success story of thunder.
even retire indian airforce personnel and senior defense analyst clearly admitting that as of 2018 Teja is still under-powered, very late, and is not cost effective any more, above all the indian air force is to some extent forced to induct it even after they are not satisfied with teja operational capabilities, 40 years of R&D , billions wasted, so far 5 aircraft with only initial operational capability,, (BIG FAIL).

@Indians: thory to sharam karo yr..
 
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