JF-17 Thunder programme has achieved important milestones: Air Chief

[Saurabh jindals]

Everything you say is set in stone ... it is absolutely positively true --- from composites giving the capability for superior maneuverability to JFT missiles not even reaching SU-30's to Mirage being a stealth platform to LCA being indigenous to radar cross section being denoted as RAC and "Bromos" (WTF) an A2G weapon killing a JFT in the air at 300 KMS!!! -- everything is beyond any doubt now, thanks to your awesome research ...

have a nice day ... and please don't quote me anymore ... I've rattled quite a few people with this off the topic meaningless debate ...

If you dont know something this is your fault sir, by not beliving or accepting reality does not going to help you. Composites indeed have huge effect on maneuverability. A box madeup of tin plates joined through lakhs of rivets indeed affects structure maneuverability. Composites lead to light weight , more strength, rivet free and provide freedom from metal cracks and high maintence, made it more capable and maneuverable. There are even lots of other benefits as well, thats why new age boeing civilian aircrafts are fully made up of composits even they didnt need radar stealth and maneuverability so in future think 2 times before questioning others.
-Due to small range of JFT radar then Su30 it capablity to guide missile to its target also gets limited. So nothing complicate which you are falling to understand.
-Mirage is 4th gen, so I am also mentioning 4th gen slealth features like Terrain Hugging and others which are still capable to easily suppress **** air defence.
- Ofcourse LCA an indigenous platform, no need to feel bad about it.
- "radar cross section being denoted as RAC" means my message well understood to you, I dont require spelling marks from you so dont search spel mistakes.
- Sir, plz read it again. There I meant that if su 30 can guide a bramos to 300 km means its ablity is 300 or 300+. Far higher then JFT can even dream about. Bramos is not built for mosquitoes.
By the way you people should stop discussing abt the defence weapons and only discuss abt Nuclear bombs. when ever time come to face enemy your army and politicians run behind Nuclear Bomb. And when last time they faced enemy even having the best weaponry of that time Patton Tank and sabre still they preffered to putting down weapons without fighting.

Everything you say is set in stone ... it is absolutely positively true --- from composites giving the capability for superior maneuverability to JFT missiles not even reaching SU-30's to Mirage being a stealth platform to LCA being indigenous to radar cross section being denoted as RAC and "Bromos" (WTF) an A2G weapon killing a JFT in the air at 300 KMS!!! -- everything is beyond any doubt now, thanks to your awesome research ...

have a nice day ... and please don't quote me anymore ... I've rattled quite a few people with this off the topic meaningless debate ...

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Feast your Eyes ..
JF-17 loaded with MAR-1 Missile.

 

[Saurabh jindals]

Feast your Eyes ..
JF-17 loaded with MAR-1 Missile.

Checkout KH-31 IAF playing wth it since last 15 yrs

 

[Secret Service]

Checkout KH-31 IAF playing wth it since last 15 yrs

not interested. we are talking about thunder here.

 

[Zarbe Momin]

The upgraded version is already in service. Production of 10 aircrafts has already been completed (block II) --

Regarding the basic KLJ-7, I checked and there was indeed a mention of an upgrade back in 2008 ( a range upgrade was not mentioned), which could be termed V1, but that upgraded model is still what usually is considered as the basic version (as the first PAC JFT's were handed in late 09) which has a 105 Km for 5m2 RCS as it was the model that went in to service with the JFT blk-1...

However standard JF-17 for PAF would be the block II, meaning the remaining 50 JF-17's will be brought up to the block II standard ...If you want to know about KLJ-7 and how it's range was reported over the years ... you can look at the following ...

1.In 2008 Janes reported an upgrade in KLJ-7 ( i.e the radar could detect 40 targets, track around 10 and engage 2 at the same time)

China's NRIET outlines fighter radar improvements - Jane's Defence Weekly

2.Around 2009 official claims of range that were quoted in Jane's did indeed say 75 Km for 3m2 ..​

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

3.Then the brochure of the manufacturer surfaced which said 105 for 5m2 RCS ..

4.Then the Kanwa interview with Javaid Ahmad (project director of JFT) mentioned 130 Km for 5m2 with the tracking capability increased to 16 aircrafts compared to 10 as reported by janes ... ( I think this was reported in the May of 2013)

5.Lastly, while there hasn't been another claim regarding the range of KLJ-7, lets not forget that there was a slide in the presentation of the chief designer (Dubai, Nov of 2013) which was putting an F-16 C/D model at 120 Km range ...

If we take the 130 Km for 5m2 RCS claim, and substitute the values, for the F-16C with a clean config RCS is reported around 1.2m2 and a loaded F-16C will probably be around an RCS of 3.5 m2 ... with this 3.5m2 consideration,the Approx range does indeed come out to be 118 odd Km's if we put the values in the formula ...


Bottom line ... The manufacturer claim for the basic KLJ-7 is 105 Km for 5m2, For KLJ-7 V2, the claim is 130 Km for 5m2 ..

I am following jf 17 developments from beginning...i have always wished jf 17 with ASEA radar, IRST, CFT for JF 17 squardons dedicated for long endurane missions, dual pylons to carry BVR and short range heat seaking missels and for land strike JF.17 squardons which will replace old mirages internal targeting pod.

 

[Viper0011.]

.

Muchas Gracias!!

 

[kalibr]

I am following jf 17 developments from beginning...i have always wished jf 17 with ASEA radar, IRST, CFT for JF 17 squardons dedicated for long endurane missions, dual pylons to carry BVR and short range heat seaking missels and for land strike JF.17 squardons which will replace old mirages internal targeting pod.

But that will increase the price of j f 17...

 

[Arron Bert]

This is true that JF-17 has achieved a lot. Also, some members have suggested that KSA has placed an order for about 40 JF-17s and may be some other equipment which will present at a large base which is being built in KSA where Pakistan Army and Air Force will be present. Also, I'm quite sure that there will be a Naval base soon for Pakistan Navy and Marines too.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Just cool down here no war going on. I could have also used the same language like yours but I believe this is the difference in a Pakistani and an Indian (I am still giving you respect even after your bad behivour). Before giving comments you should have gone our conversation. Now again plz go through it you will realize yourself. I know they are assumptions but I choose it because it is neutral source otherwise someone could say I cant belive Indian source. Still this is not the matter. Matter was he is continuously manipulating the figures only just to prove himself correct. I am not here for unnecessary arguments or bad air I want meaningful debate and discussion, I like to gain correct information thats y I am here talking and dont come here just to lisnt music for your ears, Be realistic.
Also If you are not trolling then prove how KH-31 is junk ?


You are now with your point confusing me, Post the links which you are referring and I only made my claim based on the graph I posted, plz check it carefully. There clearly shown a mark representing 3sqm (there is no mark in graph of 5sqm) from there you find interception somewhere 140 (Skyblu line for su 30 mki radar N011M bars ). Also radar range is always calculated against 3sq m . jf 75 km is also against 3sq m. You can check all other radar ranges 3sq m is the common reference.

Yes, you don't get sarcasm and humour of my post, thats the difference.
KH31 is junk by IAF's own assessment, having poor performance has tropical temperatures.

Every link is posted in the quoted statement ... you can click (on the dark green text present at the bottom of each quotation) to get to the page on which the claim was made ...

-Standard RCS is 5m2 ... the claims involving 3m2 are usually written as "XYZ amount of range for 3m2" .. However the standard fighter aircraft RCS is taken by default as 5m2.

-Regarding JF-17's I've already made this clear ...

1. Niret KLJ-7 has a range of 75 Km for 3m2 ( claimed by IHS Janes)
2. Niret KLJ-7 has a range of 105 Km for 5m2 (claimed by CETEC, the manufacturer of the radar)
3. Niret KLJ-7 V-II (upgraded version) onboard the JFT's has a range of 130 Km for 5m2 (claimed by the AM Javaid Ahmed, Chief Project Director of JF-17)

-Coming to the range of the radar onboard SU-30 MKI .. You claim that I've been manipulating the figures to prove myself right ... okay so here goes ... I've maintained from the start that the MKI has a 140 Km range for 5m2...Following is what I base it on ..

1. N011M bars quoted at 76 NMI (140 Km) for a fighter sized target (By Dr. Carlo Kopp, the same "neutral source" )
2. N011 M Bars quoted at 140 Km for a Mig-29 sized target (5m2) (Claimed by NIIP, the manufacturer of the radar)
3. N011 M Bars quoted at 135 Km for a Mig-21 sized target (4m2), which if converted for a 5m2 yields 142.7 Km ( claimed by Vayu Sena tripod, an Indian based website)
4. No11M Bars quoted at 140-160 Km for a F-16 sized target taken at 5m2 (for earlier A/B version of the falcons) (The range claimed by Vay Sena tripod, an Indian based defense website) ...

There is a constant here, and it is the fact that the published data beyond a doubt states that the N011 M bars range is around the 140 Km mark for a standard fighter radar cross section i.e 5m2. You can rely on charts which btw as @Bilal Khan 777 said are based on assumptions .. however the published data from 3 different sources including your own (Dr. Kopp), plus the manufacturer and an Indian defense site supports my narrative whether you like it or not ..

Radar control system "BARS" for Su-30MKI, Su-30MKA, Su-30MKM fighters
Sukhoi Flankers - The Shifting Balance of Regional Air Power
Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat
The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

About radar range, the most important part is "Aspect" most aircraft in modern BVR situation will have only front aspect to play with. Front aspect of most aircraft is minimal.

This is true that JF-17 has achieved a lot. Also, some members have suggested that KSA has placed an order for about 40 JF-17s and may be some other equipment which will present at a large base which is being built in KSA where Pakistan Army and Air Force will be present. Also, I'm quite sure that there will be a Naval base soon for Pakistan Navy and Marines too.

JF17 is a successful fighter program where its produce is IN SERVICE and IN PRODUCTION. It is going through its evolution as well. The critics don't have anything else to show, mostly hailing from India, have their own Fighter program in a dilemma, and in total hands of the French to screw them royally.

But that will increase the price of j f 17...

Will also increase capability and marketability.

The upgraded version is already in service. Production of 10 aircrafts has already been completed (block II) --

Regarding the basic KLJ-7, I checked and there was indeed a mention of an upgrade back in 2008 ( a range upgrade was not mentioned), which could be termed V1, but that upgraded model is still what usually is considered as the basic version (as the first PAC JFT's were handed in late 09) which has a 105 Km for 5m2 RCS as it was the model that went in to service with the JFT blk-1...

However standard JF-17 for PAF would be the block II, meaning the remaining 50 JF-17's will be brought up to the block II standard ...If you want to know about KLJ-7 and how it's range was reported over the years ... you can look at the following ...

1.In 2008 Janes reported an upgrade in KLJ-7 ( i.e the radar could detect 40 targets, track around 10 and engage 2 at the same time)

China's NRIET outlines fighter radar improvements - Jane's Defence Weekly

2.Around 2009 official claims of range that were quoted in Jane's did indeed say 75 Km for 3m2 ..​

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
3.Then the brochure of the manufacturer surfaced which said 105 for 5m2 RCS ..

4.Then the Kanwa interview with Javaid Ahmad (project director of JFT) mentioned 130 Km for 5m2 with the tracking capability increased to 16 aircrafts compared to 10 as reported by janes ... ( I think this was reported in the May of 2013)

5.Lastly, while there hasn't been another claim regarding the range of KLJ-7, lets not forget that there was a slide in the presentation of the chief designer (Dubai, Nov of 2013) which was putting an F-16 C/D model at 120 Km range ...

If we take the 130 Km for 5m2 RCS claim, and substitute the values, for the F-16C with a clean config RCS is reported around 1.2m2 and a loaded F-16C will probably be around an RCS of 3.5 m2 ... with this 3.5m2 consideration,the Approx range does indeed come out to be 118 odd Km's if we put the values in the formula ...


Bottom line ... The manufacturer claim for the basic KLJ-7 is 105 Km for 5m2, For KLJ-7 V2, the claim is 130 Km for 5m2 ..

For KLJ7, as newer processors come into place, the capability will keep on rising. KLJ7 will keep growing as Electronics keeps changing.

 

[Ultima Thule]

If you dont know something this is your fault sir, by not beliving or accepting reality does not going to help you. Composites indeed have huge effect on maneuverability. A box madeup of tin plates joined through lakhs of rivets indeed affects structure maneuverability. Composites lead to light weight , more strength, rivet free and provide freedom from metal cracks and high maintence, made it more capable and maneuverable. There are even lots of other benefits as well, thats why new age boeing civilian aircrafts are fully made up of composits even they didnt need radar stealth and maneuverability so in future think 2 times before questioning others.
-Due to small range of JFT radar then Su30 it capablity to guide missile to its target also gets limited. So nothing complicate which you are falling to understand.
-Mirage is 4th gen, so I am also mentioning 4th gen slealth features like Terrain Hugging and others which are still capable to easily suppress **** air defence.
- Ofcourse LCA an indigenous platform, no need to feel bad about it.
- "radar cross section being denoted as RAC" means my message well understood to you, I dont require spelling marks from you so dont search spel mistakes.
- Sir, plz read it again. There I meant that if su 30 can guide a bramos to 300 km means its ablity is 300 or 300+. Far higher then JFT can even dream about. Bramos is not built for mosquitoes.
By the way you people should stop discussing abt the defence weapons and only discuss abt Nuclear bombs. when ever time come to face enemy your army and politicians run behind Nuclear Bomb. And when last time they faced enemy even having the best weaponry of that time Patton Tank and sabre still they preffered to putting down weapons without fighting.

you are trolling about JF-17 and we put real fact about your beloved vedic LEAST CRAPY AIRCRAFT is not yuor indigenous junk, it has a 99 percent foreign component, its a scale-down version of JAS-37 without canard, its fly-by-wire technology is develop and tested by USA, engine is also AMERICAN, avionics are FRENCH, ISRAELI, RUSSIAN and some INDIANS, RADAR is ISRAELI, oh i forget that your vedic LEAST CRAPY AIRCRAFT 1000% more advance than F-22/F-35, go worship your cow-piss super duper LEAST CRAPY AIRCRAFT, and what about your mighty Su30MKI, MIG-29 and MIRAGE 2000 doesn't have ribbits and ordinary

Graphic: Details of LCA indigenisation

(Source: CAG Report for period ending March 2014)


Serial No
Description of work
Indigenisation level projected

1
Aerodynamic design
100 per cent

2
System architecture
100 per cent

3
Structural design
100 per cent

4
Manufacture of structure
95 per cent

5
General systems
85 per cent (import: heat exchangers, pumps, sensors)

6
Metallic materials
80 per cent

7
Engines
Fully imported

8
Avionics
80 per cent (import: displays, generators, ring laser gyros, electronics

9
Software
100 per cent

10
Flight control system
40 per cent (import: actuators, sensors)

11
Radar
80 Indigenous (import: electronic components)

12
Aircraft integration
100 per cent

13
Ground test rigs
100 per cent

14
Flight testing
100 per cent




Total indigenous content
61 per cent
CAG is most reputable Audit general agency this is the one which opened all scams of UPA Govt worth Many lacs of crore Rs.
Dassault (the company that made the Mirage series and the Rafale) as an official design consultant dosent mean Tejas design is not indi. "Plz remove your black glasses then see it" . They are not going to design aircraft for you, only they will guide you, hard work you have to do themself. Also they wer consultant initially for very small time HAL dosent extend there tenure. Its a completely new design in world. one example Delhi Metro is providing metro consulting to many projects in many parts of world but that dosent mean delhi metro is building for them they r just giving them guidence -ves +vs of there design, how to approch... , design and features are the work of the builder to decide and build. China or every country also took consulting from other countries initially when they stated. Delhi Metro took consultancy from Japan now giving to all projects in India and many in abroad.

If you can search so much abt indian programmes then you should have known abt chinese as well there was cyber technology theft by hacking on lockheed. Available on discovery program as well. Even USA is discussing to apply sanctions because of chinese govt. direct involvement in cyber thefts.

I think french are the people whom you should blame if it is true.They are greedy. Bythe way MOD was always against rafel deal, only because of IAF rigidity this deal happens. Even when Modi on tour of france everyone was of the opinion there will be final cancellation announcement by modi to french PM. when this out of the box deal news come forward even Defence minister wasnt know abt it. He himself told i got to know abt this through tv.

This deal happend only because of Air force chief rigidity and Modis out of box decision.

[/QUOTE]
You are about JF-17, we didn't call it our indenginous project we called it joint fighter, we put you to real fact that your beloved vedic LEAST CRAPY AIRCRAFT almost 99% foreign components, its a scale down version of JAS-37 without canards, its fly-by-wire system is develop and tested by USA, its engine is AMERICAN, its radar is ISRAELI, its avionics are also FRENCH, ISRAELI, RUSSIAN, and some INDIAN, and you guys call it your vedic indenginous junk what's a loser, oh I forget your beloved vedic LEAST CRAPY AIRCRAFT is 1000% more advance than F-22/F-35 , you guys lived in youo fantasy world and wet dreams