JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[ziaulislam]

Why can't Thunder block 3 have CFTs?

CFTs is an option but you would need a better engine....when f16 C/d got CFTs it was complimented with better engine..not saying its absolutely must though..

also I don't know whether how feasible CFTs are..every aircraft is different and this needs research /development which probably PAF never thought of or put funds towards

 

[Saifullah]

Hi,

That bottle was good for around 2 + hours---.

Oxygen supply is more than 3 hours. 3+ hours of flight time for single-pilot is pretty much the fatigue limit.

OBGS have other benefits that increase the overall productivity of the platform but the max flight time will be pretty much the same.

PAC reference

Hi,

That is incorrect---. F16 has the longest legs so far---.

Overall is the keyword in my comment. I apologize I will make sure to bold things out in the future.

This is the longest typical mission.

Mission Profile IV - Modern Medium Altitude Strike (Precision Strike/Battlefield Air Interdiction/Deep Air Interdiction):

F-16C Block 50/52 (19,700 pounds Aircraft Empty Weight)
Internal Fuel + 300 Gallon Centerline Drop Tank + Two 370 Gallon Drop Tanks + Navigation & Targeting Pods + Two 2400 pound Precision Guided Bombs + Two AIM-120 AMRAAM + Two AIM-9 Sidewinders
510 nautical miles mission radius [minimum of 450+60, 520, 580]

JF-17 Block I/II (14,500 pounds Aircraft Empty Weight)
Internal Fuel + Two 1,100 Liter Drop Tanks + Targeting Pod + Two 1,100 pound Precision Guided Bombs + Two PL-5EII
@ 470 nautical miles mission radius [minimum of 420+50, 550, 470]

Note: The above calculations are without IFR. Now introduce IFR and JF17 will outrange the F16.

Please keep in mind Pakistan only got 12 F16C which are capable of this range, on the other hand, every JF17 can perform the above mission.

JF17III will have more range because it will fly with Three drop tanks and Pod will have it's own HP.

Credit for the above calculation goes to @Naif al Hilali

Jf17 Reference

F16 Reference

@Syed1. @GriffinsRule

 

[Path-Finder]

I guess conformal fuel tanks are out of the question.

 

[denel]

I guess conformal fuel tanks are out of the question.

for now only..

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Oxygen supply is more than 3 hours. 3+ hours of flight time for single-pilot is pretty much the fatigue limit.

OBGS have other benefits that increase the overall productivity of the platform but the max flight time will be pretty much the same.

PAC reference



Overall is the keyword in my comment. I apologize I will make sure to bold things out in the future.

This is the longest typical mission.

Mission Profile IV - Modern Medium Altitude Strike (Precision Strike/Battlefield Air Interdiction/Deep Air Interdiction):

F-16C Block 50/52 (19,700 pounds Aircraft Empty Weight)
Internal Fuel + 300 Gallon Centerline Drop Tank + Two 370 Gallon Drop Tanks + Navigation & Targeting Pods + Two 2400 pound Precision Guided Bombs + Two AIM-120 AMRAAM + Two AIM-9 Sidewinders
510 nautical miles mission radius [minimum of 450+60, 520, 580]

JF-17 Block I/II (14,500 pounds Aircraft Empty Weight)
Internal Fuel + Two 1,100 Liter Drop Tanks + Targeting Pod + Two 1,100 pound Precision Guided Bombs + Two PL-5EII
@ 470 nautical miles mission radius [minimum of 420+50, 550, 470]

Note: The above calculations are without IFR. Now introduce IFR and JF17 will outrange the F16.

Please keep in mind Pakistan only got 12 F16C which are capable of this range, on the other hand, every jf17 can perform the above mission.

JF17III will have more range because it will fly with Three drop tanks and Pod will have it's own HP.

Credit for the above calculation goes to @Naif al Hilali

Jf17 Reference

F16 Reference

@Syed1. @GriffinsRule

F 16s have CFT. Both CFT can carry 450 gallons of fuel. Thats more than 40% of internal fuel. This frees up 2 or 1 centerline HP. Which can be used for carry additional armament. Moreover F-16s have internal EW system. Which current blocks of Thunder lack and have to use pods.

 

[araz]

its a shame though that at time of block 3 we didn't had rd 93ma or was 13 ready or chosen (at least that's whats the impression I am getting)

because without thurst; fuel or range cannot be altered..thus jf17 will remain an ultra-light fighter as compared to other light fighters of its era

I think PAF has made a commitment to stick to RD93. They will gradually make changes to the engine with Russian help.I dont think PAF is willing to risk the reputation of the plane on a new engine. Barring some really illuminating data to say to the contrary PAF will continue along those lines.
A

 

[StormBreaker]

CFTs is an option but you would need a better engine....when f16 C/d got CFTs it was complimented with better engine..not saying its absolutely must though..

also I don't know whether how feasible CFTs are..every aircraft is different and this needs research /development which probably PAF never thought of or put funds towards

Even USAF despite having direct access, doesn’t use CFTs at all

 

[Saifullah]

F 16s have CFT. Both CFT can carry 450 gallons of fuel. Thats more than 40% of internal fuel. This frees up 2 or 1 centerline HP. Which can be used for carry additional armament. Moreover F-16s have internal EW system. Which current blocks of Thunder lack and have to use pods.

JF17 out ranges all the AC as a Platform in PAF inventory as it has IFR with efficient engine.

This is the comment we are discussing about.

Please go through the comments again.
You can than share your point of view and we can go from there.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

 

[ziaulislam]

Even USAF despite having direct access, doesn’t use CFTs at all

Usa didnt need CFT they hace enough f15s ..isreal needed them and developed them
So does pakistan

JF17 out ranges all the AC as a Platform in PAF inventory as it has IFR with efficient engine.

This is the comment we are discussing about.

Please go through the comments again.
You can than share your point of view and we can go from there.

You have barely four refeulers

 

[denel]

Usa didnt need CFT they hace enough f15s ..isreal needed them and developed them
So does pakistan


You have barely four refeulers

I dont know why they did not test with alternatives fueling wing board which we had developed off C160 Transal vs getting IL76.

 

[khanasifm]

 

[PakFactor]

Usa didnt need CFT they hace enough f15s ..isreal needed them and developed them
So does pakistan


You have barely four refeulers

The U.S. Air Force has enough Air Refueling capability for them to have CFTs is pointless and for Pakistan and Israel (among other countries) CFT is much more cost effective then maintaining Air Refueling aircraft.

CFTs is an option but you would need a better engine....when f16 C/d got CFTs it was complimented with better engine..not saying its absolutely must though..

also I don't know whether how feasible CFTs are..every aircraft is different and this needs research /development which probably PAF never thought of or put funds towards

I believe in one of the threads someone posted an article saying CFTs do not effect the dynamics of the air craft -- and their was no difference in performance with or without CFT and I will venture out and say the same would be for JF-17.

View attachment 605009

View attachment 605010

I love the last portion of the 1st picture now if we can take this set up and invest in public sector and could start a fabrication facility to make our own PCBs and export with and do JV with other companies internationally. Imagine the potential and economic development from just this.

 

[StormBreaker]

The U.S. Air Force has enough Air Refueling capability for them to have CFTs is pointless and for Pakistan and Israel (among other countries) CFT is much more cost effective then maintaining Air Refueling aircraft.



I believe in one of the threads someone posted an article saying CFTs do not effect the dynamics of the air craft -- and their was no difference in performance with or without CFT and I will venture out and say the same would be for JF-17.



I love the last portion of the 1st picture now if we can take this set up and invest in public sector and could start a fabrication facility to make our own PCBs and export with and do JV with other companies internationally. Imagine the potential and economic development from just this.

“Doesn’t affect the dynamics”
My dear Einstein, it has all got to do with the shape of the cft with respect to aircraft to minimize resistance during normal flight and turns as well as rcs

 

[PakFactor]

“Doesn’t affect the dynamics”
My dear Einstein, it has all got to do with the shape of the cft with respect to aircraft to minimize resistance during normal flight and turns as well as rcs

RCS yes it'll effect that for sure but I don't see much design dynamic of CFTs beyond the shape and size of F-15/F-16. The design if we get one looking like the F-16 which expands and sides going straight i'll cut through the air flow without much issue.