JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Donatello]

Sir ji... the idea was to compare the Indian contribution to the MKI with the Pakistani one to the JF 17. Now you have listed the components developed by India for the MKI.. Can you do the same for the Pakistani components for the Thunder .. I mean except PAF engineers sitting in Chengdu during the development of specifications.

And about the rest, yes, creating an engine from scratch is something of a feat that very few countries have achieved till date. Even China is struggling with the same and hence JF 17 uses a Russian engine till now. However, the engines for Su 30 MKI are now manufactured locally in India with some key components coming in from Russia.

Kaveri on the other hand has nothing to do with this. That boat is still miles away from the port..

Kaveri, that boat sank long ago.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir ji... the idea was to compare the Indian contribution to the MKI with the Pakistani one to the JF 17. Now you have listed the components developed by India for the MKI.. Can you do the same for the Pakistani components for the Thunder .. I mean except PAF engineers sitting in Chengdu during the development of specifications.

And about the rest, yes, creating an engine from scratch is something of a feat that very few countries have achieved till date. Even China is struggling with the same and hence JF 17 uses a Russian engine till now. However, the engines for Su 30 MKI are now manufactured locally in India with some key components coming in from Russia.

Kaveri on the other hand has nothing to do with this. That boat is still miles away from the port..

Hi,

Pakistan's contribution to JF 17 is on the same level as that of 3M corporation.

Just because india wants to re-invent the wheel and if someone else does not want to do it that way---means nothing to them---.

 

[karan.1970]

Hi,

Pakistan's contribution to JF 17 is on the same level as that of 3M corporation.

Did not understand this...

Kaveri, that boat sank long ago.

Its not over till the fat lady sings..

 

[MastanKhan]

Did not understand this...



Its not over till the fat lady sings..

Hi,

You did not understand that---. You don't know what 3M represented----. One of their major themes was---'we did not invent the technology---but we made it better'.

 

[karan.1970]

Hi,

You did not understand that---. You don't know what 3M represented----. One of their major themes was---'we did not invent the technology---but we made it better'.

So in a nut shell, PAF is taking an existing platform and improvising/enhancing it to their needs?

 

[IceCold]

My God.....the damn plane is already up and running and numbers are been added as we speak and yet we have Indians who are still fighting over Pakistans contribution in the project and hell bent on proving it otherwise

 

[MastanKhan]

So in a nut shell, PAF is taking an existing platform and improvising/enhancing it to their needs?

Hi,

That has always been the 'forte' of the pakistani military engineering complex. We already know we don't have the resources of creating anything on our own and neither we have the technology---but we do have a lots of exposure to western technology and a knack of understanding that technology.

The difference here is that india wants to make it a matter of its ego to be known to manufacture---for us--- it is fine if we cannot invent it---. We will leave the invention to those who do a better job than us and if we can---we will share our input in what we need and it has worked good for us so far.

 

[karan.1970]

Hi,

That has always been the 'forte' of the pakistani military engineering complex. We already know we don't have the resources of creating anything on our own and neither we have the technology---but we do have a lots of exposure to western technology and a knack of understanding that technology.

The difference here is that india wants to make it a matter of its ego to be known to manufacture---for us--- it is fine if we cannot invent it---. We will leave the invention to those who do a better job than us and if we can---we will share our input in what we need and it has worked good for us so far.

And you know what, I favor the PaF approach here. Pick up a platform developed by a more advanced country, but make sure development includes your specifications, so that the platform is developed tailormade for you.

India's objectives for LCA were different, to get a technical know how and advancement.. The wrong thing our Babus did was to make an operational need (replacement of Mig 21s) dependent on the output of that R&D project.

 

[Storm Force]

but we do have a lots of exposure to western technology and a knack of understanding that technology.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...role-fighter-thread-5-a-98.html#ixzz2h2LQQ8X5

disagree on THOSE COMMENTS.

You where where very good at GETTING MORE LIFE out of obselete western supplied mirages WHEN MOST COUNTRIES had phased them out.


PAF is now a 80% EASTERN AIRFORCE and barring 60 F16s it will have NIL or ZERO exposure to WESTERN technology.

And we all know the reassons why THIS HAS HAPPENED

 

[farhan_9909]

disagree on THOSE COMMENTS.

You where where very good at GETTING MORE LIFE out of obselete western supplied mirages WHEN MOST COUNTRIES had phased them out.


PAF is now a 80% EASTERN AIRFORCE and barring 60 F16s it will have NIL or ZERO exposure to WESTERN technology.

And we all know the reassons why THIS HAS HAPPENED

Eastern technology these days are getting closer and closer to the western tech and may be even better at some points in the forseeable future.

The distance 30years back between eastern and western aviation tech is alot reduced

 

[PakShaheen79]

disagree on THOSE COMMENTS.

You where where very good at GETTING MORE LIFE out of obselete western supplied mirages WHEN MOST COUNTRIES had phased them out.


PAF is now a 80% EASTERN AIRFORCE and barring 60 F16s it will have NIL or ZERO exposure to WESTERN technology.

And we all know the reassons why THIS HAS HAPPENED

Actually, there is no Eastern tech as per se... What Chinese are making today has already been in Europe/American labs decades ago in terms of evolution of technology; not necessarily in terms of application of a certain technology. All you can compare is the quality control standards... technology is the same. .... physics is a universal knowledge ... applied exactly identically both in Western and Chinese labs.

 

[Storm Force]

I agree guys China and Russia have closed the gap. The Russian airframe design in terms of agility and flight performance beats western designs. But I would take western radars and electronic smart devices as superior.

Coming back to jf17 I think paf envisaged the thunder mk2 with this scenario ie French radars and mica bvrs as improvements over mk1 versions like sd10 klj radars. We all now this was attempted last year by paf but failed in negotiations with dassult

 

[Informant]

The radar in Thunder is just sufficient for BVR weapons in PAF inventory. Further radar ranges are covered by AWACS, Ground Radars. The BVRs in IAF have same ranges but have powerful radars on MKI. Which has its advantages but is covered by our acquisitions of AWACS. Now there is no match for long legged greater range MKIs. No one denies it. We just have to do in limited resources what you guys can do in unlimited resources ( relatively).

But what baffles me is the sheer amount of corruptions and delays in Indian military projects. If we had your money, shiieet man "anni padeni si" hamne!

 

[SQ8]

I agree guys China and Russia have closed the gap. The Russian airframe design in terms of agility and flight performance beats western designs. But I would take western radars and electronic smart devices as superior.

Coming back to jf17 I think paf envisaged the thunder mk2 with this scenario ie French radars and mica bvrs as improvements over mk1 versions like sd10 klj radars. We all now this was attempted last year by paf but failed in negotiations with dassult

It was envisaged specifically for the Radars as the PAF was looking for additional A2G modes that the KLJ-7 did not have at the time. The MICA was just an additional cherry to get as it would make an excellent Dogfight missile. However, the modes for the KLJ-7 were introduced anyway which solved the problem while the SD-10 is a missile that has performed beyond expectations of the PAF. So there really is not much of a loss.

 

[Bratva]

It was envisaged specifically for the Radars as the PAF was looking for additional A2G modes that the KLJ-7 did not have at the time. The MICA was just an additional cherry to get as it would make an excellent Dogfight missile. However, the modes for the KLJ-7 were introduced anyway which solved the problem while the SD-10 is a missile that has performed beyond expectations of the PAF. So there really is not much of a loss.

Such hardware and software upgrades in block 2, would it make T&E of block 2 and training pilots on it longer and cause another delay in introducing it in to PAF?