JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[karan.1970]

and how many sqdn of tejas in the last 33 years? NADA, ZILCH

And why is this relevant ? The parallel to Pakistan's JF 17 is Indian Su 30 MKI in terms of a foreign plane being manufactured locally. And we have over 100 of those manufactured in India by now.. But that's irrelevant as well in a JF 17 thread. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Crypto]

And why is this relevant ? The parallel to Pakistan's JF 17 is Indian Su 30 MKI in terms of a foreign plane being manufactured locally. And we have over 100 of those manufactured in India by now.. But that's irrelevant as well in a JF 17 thread. Please stick to the topic.

I don't think you can compare those two projects unless i am mistaken, didn't know India was a partner in SU30 project and that it had major input on design parameters. What percentage of sales $$ India get if SU30 variant is sold to other countries?

 

[karan.1970]

I don't think you can compare those two projects unless i am mistaken, didn't know India was a partner in SU30 project and that it had major input on design parameters. What percentage of sales $$ India get if SU30 variant is sold to other countries?

Technically, India has contributed more to Su 30 MKI than what Pakistan has contributed to JF 17. Many components of MKI like avionics (some) etc are 100% designed and developed in India and today every single component of SU 30 MKI, including the engine is manufactured from scratch in India it self. There is no kit received from Russia. Pakistan is decades away from achieving this on the JF 17 front.

I agree that Pakistan coughed up a significant percentage of development cost, but that is financing and not co development of the platform.

LCA, JF 17 and SU 30 MKI.. None of the projects are similar in terms of engagement models, indigenous nature or financing.. But JF 17 and SU 30 MKI are closer to each other than JF 17 and LCA

But as I said, let's stick to JF 17 and not bring in unnecessary comparisons that will only result in derailing the discussion.

 

[farhan_9909]

*Pakistan can export JFT while india cant export MKI
*Pakistan was into the project since the begining while MKI is just merely a upgrade variant with canards


Beside this if i am not wrong the rights of only 58% of airframe were limited to the first batch.as for not getting any other customer,the CAC atleast had to get the amount the invested.

In the End Pakistan will manufacture everything at home.

 

[Crypto]

Technically, India has contributed more to Su 30 MKI than what Pakistan has contributed to JF 17. Many components of MKI like avionics (some) etc are 100% designed and developed in India and today every single component of SU 30 MKI, including the engine is manufactured from scratch in India it self. There is no kit received from Russia. Pakistan is decades away from achieving this on the JF 17 front.

I agree that Pakistan coughed up a significant percentage of development cost, but that is financing and not co development of the platform.

LCA, JF 17 and SU 30 MKI.. None of the projects are similar in terms of engagement models, indigenous nature or financing.. But JF 17 and SU 30 MKI are closer to each other than JF 17 and LCA

But as I said, let's stick to JF 17 and not bring in unnecessary comparisons that will only result in derailing the discussion.

I agree on the engine part , JF17 avionics are also indigenous but lets leave the software aside as most countries who buy fighters end up tweaking/enhancing even replacing avionics with their custom build(s) anyways.
Israel install their own avionics in F16, doesn't mean they contributed to F16 project, merely swapping the software package.

JF17's had lot of structural design input from PAF, MKI version is tailored to Indian requirements with better Radar/sensor package.

LCA and JF17 are more alike, SU30 project is a different beast.

Point taken, lets not derail the thread.

 

[Bratva]

Remembering good old days when retractable IFR was going to get installed in Block 1

 

[Storm Force]

Perfect replacement for mig21 or f7 role.

But to replace the paf mirage fleet you need the mirage2000/5.with rd400 radar and mica bvrs

 

[Chak Bamu]

Perfect replacement for mig21 or f7 role.

But to replace the paf mirage fleet you need the mirage2000/5.with rd400 radar and mica bvrs

Why? What makes you say this? Do any numbers support your assertion?

 

[Informant]

You do realize 30 engineers on our side and 29 from the Chinese took part in the initial blueprints of the Thunder? The Chinese with their vast resources helped us out in various parameters. So you going on saying Pakistan not contributing anything to the project is a mere misguided opinion, or maybe to stroke your ego. Be that it may there is more contribution from our side on the Thunder than their is from your side on the MKI.

Now these are two different platform operating on different requirements and different roles.

 

[SQ8]

The bold part is atleast 15-20 years away for JF 17. In case of Su 30 MKI, its already happening in India. And as I said before, the right to export and funding is a financial arrangement. Does not point to any technical contribution of Pakistan to the project.

Incorrect again, The aircraft was co-developed with PAF engineers taking part in the development process at Chengdu, through a ratified contract that is co-development and co-production signed in 1998. And THIS , has been repeated to you not one, not twice but umpteenth times.

 

[Hyperion]

Those are some big arsed assumptions my friend. Did you want to say 100% assembled?

Technically, India has contributed more to Su 30 MKI than what Pakistan has contributed to JF 17. Many components of MKI like avionics (some) etc are 100% designed and developed in India and today every single component of SU 30 MKI, including the engine is manufactured from scratch in India it self. There is no kit received from Russia. Pakistan is decades away from achieving this on the JF 17 front.

I agree that Pakistan coughed up a significant percentage of development cost, but that is financing and not co development of the platform.

LCA, JF 17 and SU 30 MKI.. None of the projects are similar in terms of engagement models, indigenous nature or financing.. But JF 17 and SU 30 MKI are closer to each other than JF 17 and LCA

But as I said, let's stick to JF 17 and not bring in unnecessary comparisons that will only result in derailing the discussion.

 

[Secur]

Perfect replacement for mig21 or f7 role.

Perfect replacement for every aircraft in PAF fleet minus the F16's latter blocks .

Try not to troll here .

 

[Hyperion]

@karan.1970 - Before you inflate India's contribution to su30mki platform, here you go:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rest, such as "manufacture" of engines, and other stuff such as cutting / bending of a single blade is beyond your capability, and shall remain so.

The recent hoopla about reviving the kaveri, is nothing more than some under the table ToT from uncle Sam, it's not as if you guys had an epiphany overnight, and got the confidence that you could "do it", after failing continuously for 30 years.

 

[SQ8]

@karan.1970 - Before you inflate India's contribution to su30mki platform, here you go:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rest, such as "manufacture" of engines, and other stuff such as cutting / bending of a single blade is beyond your capability, and shall remain so.

The recent hoopla about reviving the kaveri, is nothing more than some under the table ToT from uncle Sam, it's not as if you guys had an epiphany overnight, and got the confidence that you could "do it", after failing continuously for 30 years.

You are preaching to the choir here, the individual believes in the "Jhatka for India, Haram for Pakistan" principle as a core creed.

 

[Viper0011.]

Technically, India has contributed more to Su 30 MKI than what Pakistan has contributed to JF 17. Many components of MKI like avionics (some) etc are 100% designed and developed in India and today every single component of SU 30 MKI, including the engine is manufactured from scratch in India it self. There is no kit received from Russia. Pakistan is decades away from achieving this on the JF 17 front.
LCA, JF 17 and SU 30 MKI.. None of the projects are similar in terms of engagement models, indigenous nature or financing.. But JF 17 and SU 30 MKI are closer to each other than JF 17 and LCA

Your post is SOOOOO incorrect at SOOOO many levels its not even funny. If India could produce ONE Turbo Fan engine on its own, trust me, a LOT of your Mig 21's wouldn't have been lost in flying (the ones crashed for engine problems, not airframe or avoinics related).

I can go on and on and give you literally, a book of examples. But I'll let it go. I am sure you can see through that I don't want to derail the topic. One thing though...Made in China on an American product means "Assembled in China and CREATED in the United States of America". Similarly, made in the former USSR and now the Russian federation in Su-30's case means "put together" in India (or assembled in India, however you'd like to speak the truth!