JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[karan.1970]

You are preaching to the choir here, the individual believes in the "Jhatka for India, Haram for Pakistan" principle as a core creed.

Never thought of the great Oscar indulging in anecdotals .. But hey, its life.. Live and learn

 

[karan.1970]

Your post is SOOOOO incorrect at SOOOO many levels its not even funny. If India could produce ONE Turbo Fan engine on its own, trust me, a LOT of your Mig 21's wouldn't have been lost in flying (the ones crashed for engine problems, not airframe or avoinics related).

The engines of Su 30 MKI are now manufactured (under licensed production) locally in India. Regarding references to Mig 21s, well, India does not produce engines for Mig 21. License production of one engine does not automatically make you eligible for producing all engines in the world...

I can go on and on and give you literally, a book of examples. But I'll let it go. I am sure you can see through that I don't want to derail the topic. One thing though...Made in China on an American product means "Assembled in China and CREATED in the United States of America". Similarly, made in the former USSR and now the Russian federation in Su-30's case means "put together" in India (or assembled in India, however you'd like to speak the truth!

And that's exactly what I have been saying. Since 2011 its no longer assembled in India. There in lies the difference. Unlike J F 17, we no longer get the kits from Russia to the assembled in India. The plane is now manufactured from scratch in India.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/138156-desi-sukhoi-performs-supersonic-ballet-debut.html

https://www.facebook.com/IAFJaiHind/posts/176753622411891

 

[gslv mk3]

@karan.1970 - Before you inflate India's contribution to su30mki platform, here you go:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rest, such as "manufacture" of engines, and other stuff such as cutting / bending of a single blade is beyond your capability, and shall remain so.

The recent hoopla about reviving the kaveri, is nothing more than some under the table ToT from uncle Sam, it's not as if you guys had an epiphany overnight, and got the confidence that you could "do it", after failing continuously for 30 years.

Are you serious or what?AFAIK,the engines are manufactured in India (SCB) by ToT,and only component imported is FADEC.

And India is getting into the field of SCB,several examples are already made(google it)

And how can Kaveri be a failure?last time I checked,it was going yo be flight certified on a Mig 29,and going to be used on AURA UCAV.

Your post is SOOOOO incorrect at SOOOO many levels its not even funny. If India could produce ONE Turbo Fan engine on its own, trust me, a LOT of your Mig 21's wouldn't have been lost in flying (the ones crashed for engine problems, not airframe or avoinics related).

I can go on and on and give you literally, a book of examples. But I'll let it go. I am sure you can see through that I don't want to derail the topic. One thing though...Made in China on an American product means "Assembled in China and CREATED in the United States of America". Similarly, made in the former USSR and now the Russian federation in Su-30's case means "put together" in India (or assembled in India, however you'd like to speak the truth!

We have developed turbofans on our own,google Kaveri

 

[karan.1970]

Incorrect again, The aircraft was co-developed with PAF engineers taking part in the development process at Chengdu, through a ratified contract that is co-development and co-production signed in 1998. And THIS , has been repeated to you not one, not twice but umpteenth times.

Please try to rise above your bias against me and understand the content of the post.. I am simply contesting tha just because Pakistan may have a stake in the exports of JF 17, that does not automatically imply co development as highlighted by farhan. And about PAF engineers taking part in a development effort in Chegdu, is not very different from India's contribution in evolving the specifications for the MKI variant and then developing a lot of components like avionics software etc locally within India.

Please note, I am not saying that Pakistan has no contribution to JF 17 development. Just that Pak's engagement in JF 17 development is closer to India's participation in SU 30 MKI (both being tertiary contributions with China/Russia doing most of the heavy lifting) as against LCA which is mostly an Indian effort with tertiary contributions from other countries...

LCA, JF 17 and SU 30 MKI.. None of the projects are similar in terms of engagement models, indigenous nature or financing.. But JF 17 and SU 30 MKI are closer to each other than JF 17 and LCA

But as I said, let's stick to JF 17 and not bring in unnecessary comparisons that will only result in derailing the discussion.

Those are some big arsed assumptions my friend. Did you want to say 100% assembled?

No. Some components of MKI are completely designed and developed in India (like avionics software). Plus now the standard MKI (not the super sukhoi variant) is 100% license Manufactured from scratch(including the engine) in India and not assembled from the kits received from Russia.

Did paste a link to that effect somewhere in this thread

 

[karan.1970]

@karan.1970 - Before you inflate India's contribution to su30mki platform, here you go:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rest, such as "manufacture" of engines, and other stuff such as cutting / bending of a single blade is beyond your capability, and shall remain so.

The recent hoopla about reviving the kaveri, is nothing more than some under the table ToT from uncle Sam, it's not as if you guys had an epiphany overnight, and got the confidence that you could "do it", after failing continuously for 30 years.

Sir ji... the idea was to compare the Indian contribution to the MKI with the Pakistani one to the JF 17. Now you have listed the components developed by India for the MKI.. Can you do the same for the Pakistani components for the Thunder .. I mean except PAF engineers sitting in Chengdu during the development of specifications.

And about the rest, yes, creating an engine from scratch is something of a feat that very few countries have achieved till date. Even China is struggling with the same and hence JF 17 uses a Russian engine till now. However, the engines for Su 30 MKI are now manufactured locally in India with some key components coming in from Russia.

Kaveri on the other hand has nothing to do with this. That boat is still miles away from the port..

 

[Pak47]

FYI Su 30 MKI is not an import

As @Hyperion explained b4 it practically is.

Before you inflate India's contribution to su30mki platform, here you go:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rest, such as "manufacture" of engines, and other stuff such as cutting / bending of a single blade is beyond your capability, and shall remain so.

The recent hoopla about reviving the kaveri, is nothing more than some under the table ToT from uncle Sam, it's not as if you guys had an epiphany overnight, and got the confidence that you could "do it", after failing continuously for 30 years.

Now gtfo and stop derailing JF-17!! Thread.

 

[Viper0011.]

Su 35 & Su 30 are comparable aircraft.And not to mention that F 14 era Su 27 has one of the cleanest aerodynamics among fighters,and agility was enhanced by adding TVC and canards in MKI/Su 35.And there is a planned upgrade of MKI,which include AESA & 3D TVC..
And MKI is more than enough for PAF & PLAAF,I would say.

Well .....if your target audience and aircraft are that of the PLAAF or the PAF....then using F-22 to self glorify your SU-30 doesn't make sense. It sounds a stupid comparison. I can't stand next to Magic Johnson and portray to the world that I can be just as good in basketball.....no matter what technologies you put into it, your threat theater is different than what the US military faces or has to deal with...i.e. the ENTIRE globe. So with that, SU-30 may be a decent plance for the PLAAF or the PAF. But has NO comparison to the -22 lines of stealth planes. In fact, recently, a -22 flew underneath an "upgraded" F-14 and F-4 with advanced Russians radars. It checked out the weapon loads, SIGINT, and then told them to go home as he pulled to the side. LOL, that would tell you how the -22 rolls. SU-30 can be identified from 400 miles away due to it being the size of a fllying truck

 

[BATMAN]

This was meant to be posted here. enjoy the ride.........

Thunder Rider | It's up to you to save the world.

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, of course India has experience in this field, however, coming up with the notion that Mki is "manufactured" and somehow "improved" 100% in India, then you know my answer. All critical tech is imported in the form of kits, sure you can 'manufacture' the rest, with the supplied equipment.

I also know your contributions to Airbus etc, you as a country may have the highest contribution to flight-software and certain avionics.

I dont know what to say.In case of avionics some microprocessors may be imported,but India now has some grip in this field (VLSI & certain microprocessors like MiGACORE).That dpesnt mean it is assembled,right?

 

[graphican]

SU 30MKI was designed by HAL and transfer of technology occured to russia. Its today THE best aircraft that beat the raptor because raptor can carry only two BVR and it can carry 10 or 30 on triple racks..

so now lets not drag MKI anymore..


whenever i see posts on this thread i thinks its about thunder..in the end its just MKI nothing else

Hay mate,

Why is there a resistance to acknowledge that we, here at PDF, know a little about JFT and our contribution towards its development. And why do you think our absence of knowledge should put us on defensive or should make us feel low? Its part of a defense secrets and it is not meant to be known anyway. And who is going to change the fact that this is a co-production and co-owned aircraft and we are so proud to have produced something remarkable. Our absence of knowledge about JFT doesn't mean we downgrade Indian effort or Indian contribution which they claim they had towards SU-30? India is several times bigger, more resourceful and man-powered than we are.. do we agree? I wouldn't be surprised if India is several times more involved in the production of SU-30 than we are towards JFT and that doesn't make me loose my pride towards JFT.

- BUT -

Contribution of a country towards aircraft development is not measure of its quality. USA owns F-22 and F-35 is owned by a league of Nations and yet they both are troubled. So stay calm and accept and celebrate that JFT is great platform and do not show reluctance to acknowledge that we have little revealed information on our contribution and also don't over look the possibility that our contribution may not be as much as we like it to be, but its all part of learning process.. what matters is the result which is fantastic and most satisfying for us and this is all what matters.

 

[SQ8]

Please try to rise above your bias against me and understand the content of the post.. I am simply contesting tha just because Pakistan may have a stake in the exports of JF 17, that does not automatically imply co development as highlighted by farhan. And about PAF engineers taking part in a development effort in Chegdu, is not very different from India's contribution in evolving the specifications for the MKI variant and then developing a lot of components like avionics software etc locally within India.

Did India send teams to Irkut who supplemented Russian Engineers in the design process for the aircraft? Working everything from Electrical, Hydraulic and other systems?
I think NOT.

And since you are soo eager for proofs, lets take the statement of a PAF Officer such as Grp Capt Khalid Mehmood who has been a test pilot on the program. Even though the statement is brief, I think it encompasses everything you need to know.

From 1:34 till 1:42

"Pakistan has on this aircraft , from the Drawing board till the maturity of the aircraft; Pakistan's Pilots, Engineers, Technicians fully contributed(to the aircraft)".

"Pakistan ney iss jahaz pe, Drawing board se le ke till maturity of the aircraft, Pakistan ke Pilots, engineers, technicians ne bharpoor saath diya"

 

[karan.1970]

Do you have a uniform policy on India and Pakistan? No, so why should I for my posts. Please, Im no Mahatma.. so avoid the "great" and other referrals.

Have no idea what you mean here..

As for your logic. Did India send teams to Irkut who supplemented Russian Engineers in the design process for the aircraft? Working everything from Electrical, Hydraulic and other systems?
I think NOT.

Probably not, but the MKI has integrated quite a few India owned and developed components. And they are clearly known and defined.

And since you are soo eager for proofs, lets take the statement of a PAF Officer such as Grp Capt Khalid Mehmood who has been a test pilot on the program. Even though the statement is brief, I think it encompasses everything you need to know.

From 1:34 till 1:42

"Pakistan has on this aircraft , from the Drawing board till the maturity of the aircraft; Pakistan's Pilots, Engineers, Technicians fully contributed(to the aircraft)".

"Pakistan ney iss jahaz pe, Drawing board se le ke till maturity of the aircraft, Pakistan ke Pilots, engineers, technicians ne bharpoor saath diya"

Thanks for the link.

 

[rockstarIN]

@Oscar so far I remember from what I heard, indian engineers were sent to russia during the su 30 additional designs such as canards im to mkisation

 

[araz]

Gents can we get back go the topic at hand PLEASE! !!!.
Araz

 

[BATMAN]

So what was the discussion, in the end of video about J-10 performance?