JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Jango]

Can you please elaborate sir from operational POV. This is huge if its going to replace Four different platfoms.

A-5 Fantan
F-7
Mirage

So there are 3 types, F-16 and JF-17 are going to be the remaining aircraft in service.

Now answering your operational POV question, a few benefits of converting 3 different types into one are maintenance, crew interchangeability, crew training, logistics and weapons stock.

The maintenance can now be much more streamlined, instead of having 3 difference facilities for the aircraft, now you can have one and can use one ideology for 250 odd aircraft rather than having 3. Then spare parts and tools etc also will be similar across the board, you will have more interchangeability in them.

Then the crew interchangeability...the crew training can then be also put into one stream. Rather than getting simulators and trainers etc for 3 different types and having separate training regimes for the three aircraft, you have one program for one aircraft.

Same is the case with logistics and weapons.

Look at it in this way, if I had 3 cars of different types (BMW, Honda and VW), I would have to go to 3 different service centres, but if I have three Hondas or 3 VWs, I would have to go to only one service centre. Similarly, if I lost a car jack for one of my cars, then if I had all three Hondas, I could interchange the jack.

 

[fatman17]

A-5 Fantan
F-7
Mirage

So there are 3 types, F-16 and JF-17 are going to be the remaining aircraft in service.

Now answering your operational POV question, a few benefits of converting 3 different types into one are maintenance, crew interchangeability, crew training, logistics and weapons stock.

The maintenance can now be much more streamlined, instead of having 3 difference facilities for the aircraft, now you can have one and can use one ideology for 250 odd aircraft rather than having 3. Then spare parts and tools etc also will be similar across the board, you will have more interchangeability in them.

Then the crew interchangeability...the crew training can then be also put into one stream. Rather than getting simulators and trainers etc for 3 different types and having separate training regimes for the three aircraft, you have one program for one aircraft.

Same is the case with logistics and weapons.

Look at it in this way, if I had 3 cars of different types (BMW, Honda and VW), I would have to go to 3 different service centres, but if I have three Hondas or 3 VWs, I would have to go to only one service centre. Similarly, if I lost a car jack for one of my cars, then if I had all three Hondas, I could interchange the jack.

F-16
JF-17
F-7PG
Mirage Rose.....will remain in service, to be joined by J-10/FC-20 at some point in the 2015-1016 window with the F-7PG exiting.

 

[SQ8]

i am just saying based on my experience and of few fellows from airforce. According to them "F-16 is the only potent fighter we have right now"

So exactly which few fellows did you talk to?
Considering that you used a proxy to register which is only ever used by members with dual IDs or otherwise..It removes all credibility from your claim.

 

[ssethii]

A couple of flying officers. maybe while i was registering i was watching some youtube links too. maybe but i am not going to argue anymore bcoz i am not blinded by patriotism and i know few bitter realities from past.

 

[Kompromat]

Can you please elaborate sir from operational POV. This is huge if its going to replace Four different platfoms.

A-5 Fantan: Swept wing twin engine,ground attack air craft.

F-7P: Delta wing interceptor/Fighter conversion.
F-7PG: Clipped delta wing, BVR enabled interceptor/Fighter.

Mirage III. Delta wing interceptor/Fighter bomber.

Mirage V: Maritime/Night strike Aircraft.

JF-17 replaces ALL platforms without sacrificing its cost or performance.

For PAF its much like what the F/A-18 hornet was for the US Navy, which replaced, F-14 Tomcat,F-4 Phantom, A-7, Prowlers.

Hornet,Super Hornet and Growler replaced half a dozen USN platforms.

This is why JF-17s mean so much to PAF and Navy. Not to forget the industrial benefits we get from it. 83% tech will be transfered to Pakistan by 2016. F-16 tech wasn't transfered to its partners by General dynamics, they kept all major sub systems in their own hands.

We build BVR radar,avionics and other critical systems at home and the trend will continue.

Now compare this to Indian Tejas disaster and see why we cherish JF-17s so much.

Regards.

 

[SQ8]

A couple of flying officers. maybe while i was registering i was watching some youtube links too. maybe but i am not going to argue anymore bcoz i am not blinded by patriotism and i know few bitter realities from past.

That still doesn't answer my question. I am the least blinded by patriotism here.. You want to know of mistakes take a look at the millions wasted on useless upgrades on Mirage aircraft or the billions made by vested interests during the 80's and 90's.

But here the question is you basing your opinion on "a few flying officers"...
You asked flying officers opinion on the aircraft.. were they cadets? Or new F-7 guys? who?
If I spoke to someone like I spoke to the Dir ops JF-17 to get my info I can say okay.. this is the level of the person I spoke to..
This is how authentic the info is so I may create opinion...

 

[Kompromat]

@Oscar

Okay , lets stop bashing our new man here now...

 

[Viper0011.]

You want to know of mistakes take a look at the millions wasted on useless upgrades on Mirage aircraft or the billions made by vested interests during the 80's and 90's.

I wouldn't call that 'waste of millions' necessarily. Under sanctions and without the West offering any credible platform or having the ability to develop in house, you kind of need to keep your existing fleet operational. That also means spending money. The cost benefit is to be able to defend your country!
Now there is the industry that's started and with further upgrades to JFT in Block II and III configurations, it is your home made system. You can produce it, enhance it and not worry about anyone else as much as you like. So that's definitely a massive shift from where the Pakistani aviation industry used to be just 13-14 years ago. Good things happen slowly and economy, infrastructure and learning to build complex systems happens slowly. But the results are far reaching once they are realized.

 

[sancho]

@orangzaib

What must be noted is the versatility of the JF-17 platform. It has successfully replaced or will replace 4 dissimmilar platforms while keeping its multirole capability and a high cost to performance ratio.

That's actually not surprising, since it's mainly based on the fact that JFT is a multi role fighter, compared to the older single role gen fighters. That alone makes a big difference for modern air forces, but versatility comes not only from being multi role capable, but also by the addition of useful techs, weapons and capabilities.
The F16s for example is known to be one of the most versatile fighter available, but without the necessary pods and HARM missiles, you can't do SEAD attacks with it and without stand off weapons, you can't attack high value targets either.
That is where JFT really will add power to PAF, since it will not be limited in roles, by the capabilities that the US offers to Pakistan, but is open to whatever China, or another country offers in terms of techs and weapons, or to whatever is needed for PAF operational requirements. Even if it might be less capable than the F16 B52 on paper, in operational terms this freedom of the JFT is much more worth for PAF!

 

[Kompromat]

@sancho

If you have read the recent Janes interview with JFT's program director Air Marshal Khalid,he clearly mentioned that we can buy any weapon from the shelf in the open market and integrate it on this jet at home.

MAR-1 is just one example, AIM-9L/M Can also be integrated,however AIM-120C5/7s cant be as the US may not allow it.

PAF is looking for a 5th gen AAM on the open market and have been looking for a new BVRAAM in the past, i don't know if that still is the case though.

Making it more advance than the B52 was never a goal as it defeats the purpose of this air craft. Most of all, we will get valueable industrial/marketing & managment experiance as well as technical capital from this program,which should assist in any future ventures.

 

[Tacticool]

What is status of 3rd squadron? or block 2?

 

[Bratva]

@sancho

If you have read the recent Janes interview with JFT's program director Air Marshal Khalid,he clearly mentioned that we can buy any weapon from the shelf in the open market and integrate it on this jet at home.

MAR-1 is just one example, AIM-9L/M Can also be integrated,however AIM-120C5/7s cant be as the US may not allow it.

PAF is looking for a 5th gen AAM on the open market and have been looking for a new BVRAAM in the past, i don't know if that still is the case though.

Making it more advance than the B52 was never a goal as it defeats the purpose of this air craft. Most of all, we will get valueable industrial/marketing & managment experiance as well as technical capital from this program,which should assist in any future ventures.

A-Darter 5th generation AAM is out of race for PAF 5th generation AAM acquisition race, because Chinese has developed their own 5th generation AAM, whose latese HD PIC was posted by Windjammer yesterday, so most probably PAF will acquire that missile

and MAR-1 is not yet integrated with JF-17 and there is no MAR-1 in our inventory yet

 

[sancho]

A-Darter 5th generation AAM is out of race for PAF 5th generation AAM acquisition race, because Chinese has developed their own 5th generation AAM, whose latese HD PIC was posted by Windjammer yesterday, so most probably PAF will acquire that missile

and MAR-1 is not yet integrated with JF-17 and there is no MAR-1 in our inventory yet

Not sure if it's fully integrated yet, Oscar might tell us more on that, but it's definitely available:

 

[Kompromat]

@Mafia

MAR-1 is in our inventory. It may not have been integrated yet as the first two squadrons replaced were ground attack focused,so PGMs were integrated first.

For SEAD and DEAD , we have vipers carrying HARMs for now.

 

[Bratva]

Not sure if it's fully integrated yet, Oscar might tell us more on that, but it's definitely available:

@Mafia

MAR-1 is in our inventory. It may not have been integrated yet as the first two squadrons replaced were ground attack focused,so PGMs were integrated first.

For SEAD and DEAD , we have vipers carrying HARMs for now.

According to latest official reports quoting unnamed mecatron official, only training rounds have been delivered to Pakistan. Deliveries are yet to be started to both PAF and Brazilian Air Force, as mecatron official said, PAF is in much hurry so we would supply them first in 1st quarter of 2014 and as per mecatron official first aircraft of PAF to which MAR-1 is to be mated is Mirage and when asked about plans to integrate MAR-1 with JF-17 he was unsure when PAF will integrate live round with JF-17

and Sancho, this Pic is PS

and Aeronaut, the pic of blue MAR-1 we saw in IDEAS 2012 lying beside JF-17, it was training round