JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Bratva]

There are large numbers of Mirages and F-7s in PAF inventory and they are all used extensively for training missions,
While we have a few JFT squadrons operational, it doesn't mean they have taken over all the responsibilities of PAF. !!

Correct me if i'm wrong, No.16 and No.26 squadron primary role is Ground Attack?

 

[Windjammer]

Correct me if i'm wrong, No.16 and No.26 squadron primary role is Ground Attack?

Previously when equipped with the A-5s, No.16 & 26 were dedicated tactical ground strike role but obviously the JFT being a multi-role platform, the squadrons are no longer restricted to just ground attack.

 

[Last Hope]

Correct me if i'm wrong, No.16 and No.26 squadron primary role is Ground Attack?

No.26 was Ground Attack dedicated Squadron with A-5Cs and then when JF-17 replaced them, the first units were basically for the same purpose to be used in WoT. No.16 is for ADA. Since both are stationed at same Base, No.16 serves for ADA and No.26 for A2G but when time arises, obviously, both Squadron are available for A2A.

 

[VCheng]

Hi Vcheng,

I saw F16's doing that @ Hill AFB in the 80's all the time---but the Phantoms could not---and the F14 could not and neither could the first F18's----neither could the harriers---so were all they inferior aircraft---not so---vertical climb is just one part of the performance---and with a full load---what would be the use of it---because it won't make that climb.

This 90 deg take off is mostly for show---for that we have the F16's---2 outboard WVR missiles for a quick intercept---gain the altitude---is all that it is good for---.

Actually I just saw the video after the post----it is a total BS---I have seen F16's climbing straight up off Hill AFB going straight up and disappearing from the eyesight---not one time but many---you could pull off on the street south side of the runway and park on the side-----the F16 would take off and sometimes 2/3rd of the runway and is gone up straight into oblivion.

I largely agree with your post MK, but please note that my point was that all modern designs that claim a 1:1 T:W ratio can perform that maneuver as a verification of that claim. That is all.

In time the JF-17 may live up to its claims too, with further development.

 

[karan.1970]

There are large numbers of Mirages and F-7s in PAF inventory and they are all used extensively for training missions,
While we have a few JFT squadrons operational, it doesn't mean they have taken over all the responsibilities of PAF. !!

True.. Having 2 JFT squads does not mean all the other planes of PAF have been retired..

 

[Bratva]

True.. Having 2 JFT squads does not mean all the other planes of PAF have been retired..

The point i'm trying to make is JFT having better instrument than Mirage night bomber would have avoided the collision as ground proximity alert instruments in JFT would have alerted the aircraft in a much better way and why after 4 years, JF-17 is not entrusted with such training missions is what irritates me.

 

[Last Hope]

The point i'm trying to make is JFT having better instrument than Mirage night bomber would have avoided the collision as ground proximity alert instruments in JFT would have alerted the aircraft in a much better way and why after 4 years, JF-17 is not entrusted with such training missions is what irritates me.

There over a dozen and half fighter Squadron of PAF. Only three have JF-17s. Does that mean that the units from other Squadrons would be grounded because only 3 Squadrons operate JF-17? I don't think so.

All Squadron are active in their exercises. Mirage, F-7, JF-17 and F-16, all take part in routine exercises. Even JF-17 does too. Now one unfortunate incident of an old aircraft doesn't mean that the new aircraft are not trusted, and that old ones are operating for night-time duties. No.25 is going to operate Mirage till it gets JF-17s.

 

[abdulbarijan]

FLASH BACK and is it just me, or the last picture with ACM rao Qamar shows a much more detailed picture of JF-17, then present on the PAC website

 

[farhan_9909]

the jft specs on pac site are not updated since 2007-08

while the recent airshow jft placard has also confirmed 4600kG payload

 

[araz]

Recent crash of Mirage shows that still JF-17 is not ready for night time bombing and PAF still relies on Mirage Night time capability. Don't know what they are training on JF-17 for last 4 years.

How did you reach this conclusion? How can you surmise this from the fact that both planes are part of active inventory. By the same logic does the fact that no F16 crashed while on a training mission mean that it is incapable of carrying one out?
Araz

 

[Thorough Pro]

You know pulling off this trick is not impossible for Thunder in an airshow. if you look closely at the latest spcs you will know what I am saying.

Max thrust = 19,200 lbf
Empty weight = 14,520 lb
Internal fuel weight = 5100 lb
Fueled weight = 19620 lb
Max take-off weight = 27,300 lb


T/W (with MTO) = 0.70 (Normally this is how thrust to weight ratios are calculated)
T/W (with full internal fuel) = 0.979
T/W (with 2100 lbs of fuel for show performance) = 1.155

So, you see for a show performance of 10 minutes, you don't need to fill the tanks to their max limit and thus achieve a T/W ratio of 1.15 to pull of vertical climb. Why Thunder pilots don't do it is something only they can explain. Theoretically It can be done.

Please compare that performance with what is possible with a true better than unity T:W ratio:

I will happily change my opinion if you can show me a video where a JF-17 pulls into a vertical climb straight after take-off like the F-16 does in the video above from 00:35 to about 1:00 (and later as well). It cannot do that with its present engine, hence my comment about lack of power. (We can talk about roll rates, high AoA maneuvers and the rest later if need be.)

 

[VCheng]

You know pulling off this trick is not impossible for Thunder in an airshow. if you look closely at the latest spcs you will know what I am saying.

Max thrust = 19,200 lbf
Empty weight = 14,520 lb
Internal fuel weight = 5100 lb
Fueled weight = 19620 lb
Max take-off weight = 27,300 lb


T/W (with MTO) = 0.70 (Normally this is how thrust to weight ratios are calculated)
T/W (with full internal fuel) = 0.979
T/W (with 2100 lbs of fuel for show performance) = 1.155

So, you see for a show performance of 10 minutes, you don't need to fill the tanks to their max limit and thus achieve a T/W ratio of 1.15 to pull of vertical climb. Why Thunder pilots don't do it is something only they can explain. Theoretically It can be done.

Theoretically. IF the quoted figures are correct. IF.

Let's see it done first, practically.

 

[Peregrine]

There are plenty of vids of J-10 doing a vertical climb. Cant we fit its engine in jf-17?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Thats good production rate for a small manufacturing facility...PAC Kamra.

and not to forget this is first ever batch produced at Kamra and includes on job training formany technicians. As the learning curve kicks in, productivity will increase toultimately achieve installed capacity of 16 per year.

As far as I know presently there are no plans of Thunder production outside Kamra.

Google about pac nawabshah plant

almost completed.4 times bigger than pac Kamra

that plant could enhance the jft production capacity and can meet export orders as well

 

[Thorough Pro]

There is a statement from Kamra official 3/4 pages back.

Link?? How many planes added into active service in last 12 months.. Build capacity is theoretical and build rate is factual..