JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[VCheng]

There are plenty of vids of J-10 doing a vertical climb. Cant we fit its engine in jf-17?

It would not be easy for Pakistan to find the money or expertise to do so by itself. Besides, the JF-17 is a perfectly adequate aircraft that fulfills its purpose very well, once one moves past the hype.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Where does it say that facility is near completion. If you are going to assemnble Thunde there,you will also need a runway to fly them away, in one yeat time you can'teven complete the infrasructure let alone a complete assembly plant.It will take time.

PAF Aeronautical Complex near Nawabshah: 571 acres of land documents handed over
PAF Aeronautical Complex near Nawabshah: 571 acres of land documents handed over to AVM Arshad
RECORDER REPORT
HYDERABAD (October 21, 2010) : Sindh Chief Secretary Ghulam Ali Pasha on Wednesday handed over the legal documents of 571acres of land to Air Vice Martial Arshad Qudoos for establishment of PAF Aeronautical Complex near Nawabshah in a simple ceremony held at Darbar Hall, Nawabshah City.

Information Secretary Mumtaz Ali Shah, Secretary Education Ilmuddin Bullo, Secretary Forest Mushtaque Ahmed Memon, DCO Nawabshah Jamal Mustafa, officers from Pakistan Air force and district government were present in the ceremony. The Chief Secretary said that the land was being provided to PAF for enhancement and establishment of PAF Aeronautical Complex here at Nawabshah to provide modern skills and job opportunities to the local people. He said that this project would have capacity to absorb 4,000 to 5,000 youths of the district and also to provide technical opportunities to many more, enabling them to get jobs at other sister organisations as well.

He said that efforts were being made to complete this project within six to twelve months. He said that the government has acquired the land, and compensation to owners of the land was in progress and hopefully it would be completed within a month. He said that this project would not only be fruitful for the people of district of Benazirabad but also for the people of other districts as well.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hah-571-acres-land-documents-handed-over.html

 

[Thorough Pro]

These are official figures disclosed in the latest Ideas exhibition,there is no need to doubt them.

Theoretically. IF the quoted figures are correct. IF.

Let's see it done first, practically.

There are plenty of vids of J-10 doing a vertical climb. Cant we fit its engine in jf-17?

 

[VCheng]

These are official figures disclosed in the latest Ideas exhibition,there is no need to doubt them.
................

Those are claimed figures.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Those are claimed figures.

post number 345, an official PAC poster. good enough forme. NO third party auditor gonnna verify these for you.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/189308-ideas-2012-pakistan-international-defence-nov-7-11-a-23.html

 

[VCheng]

post number 345, an official PAC poster. good enough forme. NO third party auditor gonnna verify these for you.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/189308-ideas-2012-pakistan-international-defence-nov-7-11-a-23.html

The verification lies in actual demonstration of the performance, practically. That is the whole point.

What you refer to, is a pretty advertising poster, that is all:

...........

 

[karan.1970]

There is a statement from Kamra official 3/4 pages back.

which is about capacity and not actual output

 

[Thorough Pro]

which is about capacity and not actual output

This is wha tI said in post number 8867

"and not to forget this is first ever batch produced at Kamra and includes on job training formany technicians. As the learning curve kicks in, productivity will increase to ultimately achieve installed capacity of 16 per year.

 

[rockstarIN]

There are plenty of vids of J-10 doing a vertical climb. Cant we fit its engine in jf-17?

Both are of different weight & size.

RD-33

Length: 4,229 mm (166.50 in)
Diameter: 1,000 mm (39.37 in)
Dry weight: 1,055 kg (2,326 lb)

Saturn AL-31

Length: 4,990 millimetres (196 in)
Diameter: 905 millimetres (35.6 in) inlet; 1,280 millimetres (50 in) maximum external
Dry weight: 1,570 kilograms (3,500 lb)[19]

 

[MiG-21]

You know pulling off this trick is not impossible for Thunder in an airshow. if you look closely at the latest spcs you will know what I am saying.

Max thrust = 19,200 lbf
Empty weight = 14,520 lb
Internal fuel weight = 5100 lb
Fueled weight = 19620 lb
Max take-off weight = 27,300 lb


T/W (with MTO) = 0.70 (Normally this is how thrust to weight ratios are calculated)
T/W (with full internal fuel) = 0.979
T/W (with 2100 lbs of fuel for show performance) = 1.155

So, you see for a show performance of 10 minutes, you don't need to fill the tanks to their max limit and thus achieve a T/W ratio of 1.15 to pull of vertical climb. Why Thunder pilots don't do it is something only they can explain. Theoretically It can be done.

If the reason is not Thrust to Weight ratio, then I can only think of the Angle of Attack limitation. If the max angle of attack limit of a fighter is less, you cannot turn rapidly against the air flow during take-off where the air speed is normally less than while under flight.

The 19200lbf thrust can be used only during take-off as per Klimov, so theoretically it can be used. But it is classified as "Emergency Thrust" by the manufacturer. I don't think PAF will risk turning on "Emergency Thrust" for an airshow and maybe lower the engine's lifespan or something along those lines. Max Afterburner Thrust is 18300lbf. But even under 18300lbf, you can get a Thrust to weight ratio of more than 1 easily if you load the appropriate amount of fuel for a few X minutes of Airshow performance. No big deal. So the only other limitation at this juncture would be the Angle of Attack AoA or otherwise called Alpha.

 

[Leo7]

A MOU sign for stealth version of JF17 and design will reveald after 2016

Jf 17 block 1 is fourth generation , JF 17 block 2 will be 4.5th generation and block 3 will be 4.5th plus air craft............maybe block 4 will completely stealth

 

[Thorough Pro]

There is no limit on AOA either, its verticalloop is sharper/shorter than f16.

If the reason is not Thrust to Weight ratio, then I can only think of the Angle of Attack limitation. If the angle of attack is less, you cannot turn rapidly against the air flow during take-off where the air speed is normally less than while under flight.

The 19200lbf thrust can be used only during take-off as per Klimov, so theoretically it can be used. But it is classified as "Emergency Thrust" by the manufacturer. I don't think PAF will risk turning on "Emergency Thrust" for an airshow and maybe lower the engine's lifespan or something along those lines. Max Afterburner Thrust is 18300lbf. But even under 18300lbf, you can get a Thrust to weight ratio of more than 1 easily if you load the appropriate amount of fuel for a few X minutes of Airshow performance. No big deal. So the only other limitation at this juncture would be the Angle of Attack AoA or otherwise called Alpha.

 

[MiG-21]

Those loops are carried out at speeds greater than take-off speeds. If your speed is low, your AoA increases. And if it breaches the Aircraft's maximum AoA limit(by slow speed or vigorous turning, or both of them together which are the conditions prevailing at this juncture if an aircraft wants to go close to 90 degrees up just after take-off), the fighter goes into a stall.

 

[Rocky rock]

Before i also think that this is impossible but after watchin that video i think that's possible coz they way they are makin building by usin ready made material this is possible u just need to connect all the part's n fix it n it's Done! that's the magic...

 

[air marshal]