JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Arsalan]

vs what?
vs any indian aircraft it can manage itself. other than a fifth gen aircrfts

whats its better from in most aspects? all indian aircrfts (mig21.mig27,jaugers,old mirage200s,mig29,LCAmk1) at moment other than the su 30mki

and its highly unjustified to say that su30 can carry 4 times armament or BVR missles because

it can carry 10 on multiple racks that is most maximum (against minimum of 4, we dont know max limit of thunder)
its radar can engage 4 and track 15 targets vs 2 and 8 of thunder

its ordinance is 8 tones vs 4 tones of thunder..

so maximum figure should be twice that of thunder mr mastan khan

but if you ask me the real thing that matters will be quality of sd-10 vs r-77

chinese claims that sd-10 is far better but so do the russians!

more over, keeping in mind the price and easy maintenance, PAF can easily place two or more JF17 against Su30!

remember, the strikes or offence is to be made in sections, it wont be a case where 100% IAF strength will be against 100% PAF strength. attackes are made in packages and sections!
JF17 is relatively inexpensive, and easy to maintain thus will have more sorties

 

[Nitin Goyal]

more over, keeping in mind the price and easy maintenance, PAF can easily place two or more JF17 against Su30!

remember, the strikes or offence is to be made in sections, it wont be a case where 100% IAF strength will be against 100% PAF strength. attackes are made in packages and sections!
JF17 is relatively inexpensive, and easy to maintain thus will have more sorties

and how easy it is ?

when you don't have quantity either and su 30 is going for major upgrade and don't forget it has longer legs ... a single sortie is equal to n numbers of sortie by jf-17 only in case .....

 

[My-Analogous]

Hi,

8 bvr's is a known number for the su30----and 2 is the known number for Jf17-----4-sd10 is far fetching at this time---. Secondly---you are also forgetting about the massive radar and capabilities that the su30 carries on itself----.

Sd10 is not a fully operational missile as of now---the version we are looking at is a brand new version---the r77 has been in operation for a while now----the indians know what happens to an r77 when it sits on the shelf or when it is exposed to the environment----they know what the effects of time are on a sitting missile----.

You super stars---you super st-uds---do you know that missiles deteriorate in storage--under adverse conditions--under adverse weather. You don't buy a missile to shoot it today---you may want to use it 10 years from now or maybe never----.

That is where a time proven and time tested system is always favoured over a brand new system---because you cannot change your strike weapons in mid stride---in the middle of a war---and you cannot predict the future of an upcoming and new manufacturer of weapons----.

Again---in order for your JF17 to succeed---you will have to have some aircraft that can smash thru the enemy frontline aircraft to give them passage to perform their job what they are designed to do---.

Without a proper air dominance air superiority aircraft---you are asking too much of the pilots of the paf---it is not right---it is not fair to send them in just like that----.

The gamesmanship and strategy in war has not changed for thousands of years----. Either smash thru the enemy with heavy weapons---or demolish it thru airstrikes of heavy aircraft----have fast moving flanks and follow thru the middle with fast strike capable resources------.

As much as the things change---so much they stay the same---fast moving armies with a heavy weapons strike capability will take out the slow and sluggish armies with average fire power---.

Dear Mastan,

Please note that JF17 is 4 and later 4+ fighter replacing our 2+ gen fighter which means for our defensive role we are now skipping 1 gen and which it self is big achivement b/c before we were having no fighter to match other aircarft in IAF and now we can equally match with them (except su30 as per anyalist say). Actually we aslway forget that role of JF 17 is defensive and with in our border we have our radars to take care of IAF su30 radar advantage and we have to work only on BVR range to engage the target and only three things we have to improve in thunder and that is

1. communication with radars and other stuff
2. Improve payload of thunder
3. Improve range of our BVR

We don't requires stealthy feature only if it is to avoid radar signal but we do require it to increase our payload and speed.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Not sure, if posted before, if already posted sorry for re-post:




One of them is Sq Ldr Muhammad Hussain, who was martyred in the JF-17 crash.


And by the way 09-111 is at Peshawar and seeing it atleast once a week for the past 1 month or so, always see it at Take-off, and these thunders do make a lot of thundering noise, especially when they are take off and pass right above my head. Huge noise.

 

[Windjammer]

One of them is Sq Ldr Muhammad Hussain, who was martyred in the JF-17 crash.

S/L M. Hussain was one of the Thunder Rider who visited Farnborough in 2010.

 

[Pak47]

^ In the picture above he is the one furthest to the right. May Allah Bless his soul.

Also, i hope this brings the size of the Thunder in prospective.

 

[epinephrine]

when third sqn will be inducted in PAF?

 

[mdcp]

In case of engine failure single engine jet will crash where as double engine will survive in another engine, so i personally think in the long run double engine is mor cost effective, like we had crash for jf 17 last year or so as a result we lost complete aircraft, airframe, avionics, body, technology and more important precious life of our skilled pilots
Where as maintenance and fuel will justify its effectiveness, range, payload and effect and psychological effect on enemy

 

[SQ8]

In case of engine failure single engine jet will crash where as double engine will survive in another engine, so i personally think in the long run double engine is mor cost effective, like we had crash for jf 17 last year or so as a result we lost complete aircraft, airframe, avionics, body, technology and more important precious life of our skilled pilots
Where as maintenance and fuel will justify its effectiveness, range, payload and effect and psychological effect on enemy

Very weak and generalized argument..
An explosion in one engine of a double engined aircraft like the F-18 will most likely destroy the other one and take the aircraft down anyway.

 

[MilSpec]

Very weak and generalized argument..
An explosion in one engine of a double engined aircraft like the F-18 will most likely destroy the other one and take the aircraft down anyway.

what if one of the engine malfunctions, the other can bring the airframe to the ground... in case of single engine, what if the engine malfunctions. the argument of single over double has been for ages. For low cost jet solutions, single engine seems optimal, for top of the line heavy multirole fighters, twin engine justifies the cost of the platform and usually twin pilots.

 

[BATMAN]

Very weak and generalized argument..
An explosion in one engine of a double engined aircraft like the F-18 will most likely destroy the other one and take the aircraft down anyway.

Double engine a/c have undoubted advantages of reliability and operation comfort over single engine a/c, but what really is the statistics or nature of accident, in various environments and conditions is debatable.

 

[Farooqi1]

In case of engine failure single engine jet will crash where as double engine will survive in another engine, so i personally think in the long run double engine is mor cost effective, like we had crash for jf 17 last year or so as a result we lost complete aircraft, airframe, avionics, body, technology and more important precious life of our skilled pilots
Where as maintenance and fuel will justify its effectiveness, range, payload and effect and psychological effect on enemy

mdcp

I have been arguing this since I have joined this forum. Matter of fact my only reason for joining this forum was to discuss why can't we are going for twine engine? Not only psychological effect on enemy but very possitive psychological effects on our demoralized pilots and I take full responsibility of writing demoralized pilots.

 

[TAC]

mdcp

I have been arguing this since I have joined this forum. Matter of fact my only reason for joining this forum was to discuss why can't we are going for twine engine? Not only psychological effect on enemy but very possitive psychological effects on our demoralized pilots and I take full responsibility of writing demoralized pilots.

You can't go for twin engine because 1. they are more expensive to buy / maintain / operate. Do you think it would be sensible for Pakistan to splash out on twin engine types and reduce squadron strength? 2. Name a single twin engine aircraft that someone is willing to sell to Pakistan. As for your coment about 'our demoralised pilots' -- perhaps 'your' pilots are demoralised PAF's are not.

Not sure, if posted before, if already posted sorry for re-post:




One of them is Sq Ldr Muhammad Hussain, who was martyred in the JF-17 crash.


And by the way 09-111 is at Peshawar and seeing it atleast once a week for the past 1 month or so, always see it at Take-off, and these thunders do make a lot of thundering noise, especially when they are take off and pass right above my head. Huge noise.

Thanks for posting that pic. Is 09-111 still in its special green colours? You're very lucky to see it flying so often. Does anyone know if 101 is still in the Pakistan / China flag scheme or has it been overpainted?

 

[Darth Vader]

Guys we have to grow UP and we have to stop No offnce I love jf17 its a a very good Air craft but u guys tell me can 1 jf match with f35 , f 22 , sukhoi rafale no but if war goes our enemys gone use these things agnst us so Right now jf is a little out of legue i knw the budget of paf is very low but we have to take some steps we must get some thing which is equal or can take them we can talk how long we want cz in war every thing is fair every cares who is the victor so to be victor we need that extra punch for our airforce LONG LIVE PAKISTAN

 

[Last Hope]

1) PAF is not operating any twin engine aircraft (please search for it before talking same thing over and over). The reason is the high costs of purchase, high operational costs, high maintenance costs. Anyways, PAF is showing interest in two Chinese twin engine aircraft, and one has already been evaluated whereas the other currently is (intended for Naval wing).

2) It is a old picture of 09-111 and the pilots are young. But it seems to me that the person, third from left, is Squadron Leader Mohammad Hussain.

3) Taimi, if you keep hearing the Thunders pass by, did you notice a certain echo coming from it's engine which you don't hear from other ACs?

4)

Okay so you are comparing JF-17 with what? F-22, F-35, Rafale and Su-series?
I am not comparing, but JF-17 stand a chance with the latter two, certainly not the first ones. There is no aircraft in PAF inventory, or offered to PAF that can battle F-22 or F-35.

For this reason, PAF is developing/going to develop a 5th generation aircraft. We are entrusted by the nation for defense of Pakistan, and we are not fools to be given this responsibility. We know our dangers and limitations and under extreme conditions, like finance and internal/external politics, we are trying to develop the best we could to counter the threats. And we will.