JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Farooqi1]

Guys we have to grow UP and we have to stop No offnce I love jf17 its a a very good Air craft but u guys tell me can 1 jf match with f35 , f 22 , sukhoi rafale no but if war goes our enemys gone use these things agnst us so Right now jf is a little out of legue i knw the budget of paf is very low but we have to take some steps we must get some thing which is equal or can take them we can talk how long we want cz in war every thing is fair every cares who is the victor so to be victor we need that extra punch for our airforce LONG LIVE PAKISTAN

Indeed Long live Pakistan Shahzad. We will keep on fighting our little war.

 

[TAC]

Guys we have to grow UP and we have to stop No offnce I love jf17 its a a very good Air craft but u guys tell me can 1 jf match with f35 , f 22 , sukhoi rafale no but if war goes our enemys gone use these things agnst us so Right now jf is a little out of legue i knw the budget of paf is very low but we have to take some steps we must get some thing which is equal or can take them we can talk how long we want cz in war every thing is fair every cares who is the victor so to be victor we need that extra punch for our airforce LONG LIVE PAKISTAN

PAF has laid out its plans for 'minimum credable detterance' which are very sensible within our budget and effective for our defence. JF-17 is a key component of this. F-35, F-22, Rafale and SU and the like are not available to PAF -- ie the producing country will not sell to PAF and even if by some miracle they were prepared to sell - Pakistan CANNOT AFFORD THEM. You are right we have to grow up.

 

[Farooqi1]

PAF has laid out its plans for 'minimum credable detterance' which are very sensible within our budget and effective for our defence. JF-17 is a key component of this. F-35, F-22, Rafale and SU and the like are not available to PAF -- ie the producing country will not sell to PAF and even if by some miracle they were prepared to sell - Pakistan CANNOT AFFORD THEM. You are right we have to grow up.

TAC

I respect your opinions and respectfully saying you are far from realty. If you want and have the will and money you would buy any thing with in the limits of this debate(nobody is saying F22 F35 or likes). If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone. For our defense we have to afford them. Were we able to afford Nuclear Policy? Missiles. Yes grow up and don't argue for the sake of arguments. No body is denying the success of JF-17 or its utility but that ain't enough even for minimum credible defense.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi..


Hi,

First of all welcome to the forum----if you want to say something---say it like a man that you are--say it with confidence and say it with conviction. You have wasted many years of your time sitting quietly on this forum--the days of the quiet man standing in the corner disappeared some 30 plus years ago---now----if you don't say your piece in time----then better old your breath.

But then I don't see anything interesting in your post---except for protectionism----well I don't blame you or that.


The terms like 'my two cents' and 'arm chair generals' take the conviction away from your post---.

Next--don't take the indian operators and planners as idiots---don't take their strategists and game players as any less than highly efficient---.

The su30 operator has 10 plus years of experience in their frontline aircraft---o sell them short will be deceiving.

After all these wars in the last 22 years----every nation that has some kind of awakening has learnt that the game of warfare has changed----.

Air dominance---air superiority---control of the skies starting from 00 hours + is the name of the game---if you have numeric superiority---better strike capability---you will use majority of those assets available in that arena at the first go--specially facing a smaller--numerically lesser and technically inferior air force---on the very first day---the first 8 to 12 hours in our case would be extremely crucial----.

IAF knows that if it can make a break through on the first 12 hours---the game is over----that is the what the iaf has learnt from u s air force strikes in iraq.

 

[MacanJawa]

how much j-17 cost per unit?

 

[ziaulislam]

recent slide showing 4 MRAAM(SD-10),4 SRAAM,2 anti ship, 8- 500 kg bombs dual on each 4 hard points(total of 4 tones), 1 tones single bomb on central hardpoint,MK-20 cluster bombs or CBU-10 paveway bombs in different configurations.

 

[MastanKhan]

TAC

I respect your opinions and respectfully saying you are far from realty. If you want and have the will and money you would buy any thing with in the limits of this debate(nobody is saying F22 F35 or likes). If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone. For our defense we have to afford them. Were we able to afford Nuclear Policy? Missiles. Yes grow up and don't argue for the sake of arguments. No body is denying the success of JF-17 or its utility but that ain't enough even for minimum credible defense.

Hi,

You are correct---when your position of strength from the begining is of minimum deterrence---then what kind of reserves that you have that you will fall upon---if your minimum deterrant air crafts failed to do its job. When you start a war from a position of weakness----there is only one place that you will be going and that is down----.

What do you kids do when you want to go beat up on other kids----you fight them from a position of weakness or what----either you attach yourself to a stronger gang or make peace with them----.

And that is why I keep wondering---why are the things that you people do for your protection in your daily lives are so very different than the things that yu want for pakistan.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

Hi..


Hi,

First of all welcome to the forum----if you want to say something---say it like a man that you are--say it with confidence and say it with conviction. You have wasted many years of your time sitting quietly on this forum--the days of the quiet man standing in the corner disappeared some 30 plus years ago---now----if you don't say your piece in time----then better old your breath.

But then I don't see anything interesting in your post---except for protectionism----well I don't blame you or that.


The terms like 'my two cents' and 'arm chair generals' take the conviction away from your post---.

Next--don't take the indian operators and planners as idiots---don't take their strategists and game players as any less than highly efficient---.

The su30 operator has 10 plus years of experience in their frontline aircraft---o sell them short will be deceiving.

After all these wars in the last 22 years----every nation that has some kind of awakening has learnt that the game of warfare has changed----.

Air dominance---air superiority---control of the skies starting from 00 hours + is the name of the game---if you have numeric superiority---better strike capability---you will use majority of those assets available in that arena at the first go--specially facing a smaller--numerically lesser and technically inferior air force---on the very first day---the first 8 to 12 hours in our case would be extremely crucial----.

IAF knows that if it can make a break through on the first 12 hours---the game is over----that is the what the iaf has learnt from u s air force strikes in iraq.

but brother we can,t live in fear.
i am not obsessed but truth is we are not that mush weak as we have assumed about ourselves,
if we were that much weak US or india or israil would have attacked us since long.
i confess that most of our nation is corrupt and infatuated with false believes but still element of hope is there because of few patriots who still believe in their country and prefer national interests over personal interests.
if it were in my hand i would have invested most in education , specially research based education because this theoretical ratta system has destroyed our innovations.
i am dead sure an honest and capable government can change the course of our nation even in single term. regards

Hi,

You are correct---when your position of strength from the begining is of minimum deterrence---then what kind of reserves that you have that you will fall upon---if your minimum deterrant air crafts failed to do its job. When you start a war from a position of weakness----there is only one place that you will be going and that is down----.

What do you kids do when you want to go beat up on other kids----you fight them from a position of weakness or what----either you attach yourself to a stronger gang or make peace with them----.

And that is why I keep wondering---why are the things that you people do for your protection in your daily lives are so very different than the things that yu want for pakistan.

that,s what i believe , we can,t live in fear ,
actually we are limited in our approach and lacks innovations, we have many fears, and these fears have killed out killing instincts. We are in paranoid state and fear from everything, we can come out of this fear only if we develop self believe and with proactive rather than reactive approach.
we need to think and believe beyond fears and beyond limits only then we can be powerful and prosperous.

 

[Edevelop]

Hi,

Does anyone know which Anti-Runway Bomb JF-17 uses. Last i heard we have a French made called 'Matra Durandal' but isn't that something we ordered like 20 years ago?

Our relations with France has been weakened and there is hardly anything we buy from them now. Have we found an alternative for this kind of weapon, i.e. --- Home made or from China???

 

[TaimiKhan]

1) PAF is not operating any twin engine aircraft (please search for it before talking same thing over and over). The reason is the high costs of purchase, high operational costs, high maintenance costs. Anyways, PAF is showing interest in two Chinese twin engine aircraft, and one has already been evaluated whereas the other currently is (intended for Naval wing).

2) It is a old picture of 09-111 and the pilots are young. But it seems to me that the person, third from left, is Squadron Leader Mohammad Hussain.

3) Taimi, if you keep hearing the Thunders pass by, did you notice a certain echo coming from it's engine which you don't hear from other ACs?

4)

Okay so you are comparing JF-17 with what? F-22, F-35, Rafale and Su-series?
I am not comparing, but JF-17 stand a chance with the latter two, certainly not the first ones. There is no aircraft in PAF inventory, or offered to PAF that can battle F-22 or F-35.

For this reason, PAF is developing/going to develop a 5th generation aircraft. We are entrusted by the nation for defense of Pakistan, and we are not fools to be given this responsibility. We know our dangers and limitations and under extreme conditions, like finance and internal/external politics, we are trying to develop the best we could to counter the threats. And we will.

He is on the extreme right i believe so.

And i do hear a very different sound of the engine at the time of landing. At take off, its very loud and kind of a thundering sound, but at landing the engine is making a very different and unique sound, which i have not heard so far in other aircraft.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

Does anyone know which Anti-Runway Bomb JF-17 uses. Last i heard we have a French made called 'Matra Durandal' but isn't that something we ordered like 20 years ago?

Our relations with France has been weakened and there is hardly anything we buy from them now. Have we found an alternative for this kind of weapon, i.e. --- Home made or from China???

The Hafr-1 is an anti-runway weapon manufactured and offered for export by the Air Weapons Complex of Pakistan (AWC). Development details of the bomb are absent, but the weapon is almost identical in appearance to the French-designed Durandal (now an MBDA product). It is not known if the Hafr is a licensed design or an unauthorised copy. It is available for use on the Pakistan Air Force's F-16, Mirage III, Mirage V and PAC/Chengdu JF-17 Thunder aircraft. ....

Hafr-1 and 2 (RPB-1 Runway Penetration Bomb) (Pakistan) - Jane's Air-Launched Weapons

 

[TAC]

TAC

I respect your opinions and respectfully saying you are far from realty. If you want and have the will and money you would buy any thing with in the limits of this debate(nobody is saying F22 F35 or likes). If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone. For our defense we have to afford them. Were we able to afford Nuclear Policy? Missiles. Yes grow up and don't argue for the sake of arguments. No body is denying the success of JF-17 or its utility but that ain't enough even for minimum credible defense.

I quote you ---- ' If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone' --- Care to show me where Pakistan has got the money???? and you are telling me to grow up and not argue for argument sake??? Look at Pakistans current foriegn exchange reserves - the Governments own projections on how much they are going to go down over the next 12-15 months -- prove that Pakistan 'has got the money' to buy Typhoons ---- and then think about whether it is me or you who is 'far from reality'

recent slide showing 4 MRAAM(SD-10),4 SRAAM,2 anti ship, 8- 500 kg bombs dual on each 4 hard points(total of 4 tones), 1 tones single bomb on central hardpoint,MK-20 cluster bombs or CBU-10 paveway bombs in different configurations.

Good find ----- clearly shows Jf-17 can carry 4 x SD-10's contrary to what some 'experts' were arguing.

 

[SQ8]

what if one of the engine malfunctions, the other can bring the airframe to the ground... in case of single engine, what if the engine malfunctions. the argument of single over double has been for ages. For low cost jet solutions, single engine seems optimal, for top of the line heavy multirole fighters, twin engine justifies the cost of the platform and usually twin pilots.

That would depend on engine reliability..
This would have been true of older turbojets where a restart may have been out of the question..especially over water.
Today's modern turbofans are inherently more reliable, and offer high power to weight capabilities..along with the reduced maintenance cost.
For eg.. both the F-6 and A-5 used twin turbojets which did offer the ability to keep flying if one went out but at the cost of both engines needing extra maintenance and fuel per mile.
The F-18's twin Ge-404's consume much more fuel than the F-16's single engine.. in return offering reliability over water...especially where the only place you have to land is a small piece of steel firma.. that comes in handy..Yet the US navy has gone with the F-35C which has a single engine billed as the most powerful and reliable one ever fitted to a combat aircraft.
So the debate for twin and single engined aircraft is hedged on perceived requirements rather than a universal truth.
each configuration has its pro's and con's and it is dependant on the user as to what they hold more dear.

For a nation that has little over water operations needed other than land based strike.. single engined aircraft like the JF-17 and F-16 offer more than enough for its needs.
For a nation that has a large swath of water to cover, along with possible need to project power beyond its shores.. A twin engined aircraft that offers pilots the change to fly extended ranges over water on a single engine if need be is the better solution.

TAC

I respect your opinions and respectfully saying you are far from realty. If you want and have the will and money you would buy any thing with in the limits of this debate(nobody is saying F22 F35 or likes). If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone. For our defense we have to afford them. Were we able to afford Nuclear Policy? Missiles. Yes grow up and don't argue for the sake of arguments. No body is denying the success of JF-17 or its utility but that ain't enough even for minimum credible defense.

There is no denying that fact..
Give the PAF a few billion..and remove all restrictions, you may even see it requesting the USAF for F-22s(even though they are forbidden for export).. or find them purchasing a large number of typhoons.

The question is of monetary and diplomatic limitations.... limitations that are of our own doing..

However.. I will restate this again..
The JF-17 was going to happen, come hell or high water.. had the pressler amendment not hit us..and if we had a 140 F-16's along with a 100 F-7's.. and even a few sq of Mirage-2000's..the JF-17 was going to come anyway to replace those F-7s.

 

[alimobin memon]

I quote you ---- ' If you would have the money you will be able to buy Typhoone' --- Care to show me where Pakistan has got the money???? and you are telling me to grow up and not argue for argument sake??? Look at Pakistans current foriegn exchange reserves - the Governments own projections on how much they are going to go down over the next 12-15 months -- prove that Pakistan 'has got the money' to buy Typhoons ---- and then think about whether it is me or you who is 'far from reality'



Good find ----- clearly shows Jf-17 can carry 4 x SD-10's contrary to what some 'experts' were arguing.

4 SD10's ? but will not carry other stuff ?

 

[SQ8]

4 SD10's ? but will not carry other stuff ?

4 x SD-10 along with 1X 3000L centreline tank.. and 2 x PL-5E missiles.