JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[araz]

Pshamim Sahaib.


I am absolutely, positively not suggesting that we should abandon China. We can try with Russia too. Plus we can get J11B from China. Can't we? My point is it looks like we have given up on more advance, capable and powerful equipment. Our adopted policy of single engine planes is the most stupidest thing I have herd under the circumstances we are going through. We are in a dangerous situation as usual due to our own inept decisions and policies.

All I am saying that let us try with Russia. We may be able to succeed. But the agenda of the proposed meetings I have read, has no mention of defense.

Farooq saheb
Please re read Pshamim saheb's post again. We dont have the money and the rest of the world at the moment is so enamoured with India and its Billions of $ s that they will not bother with its faqeer Cousin and neighbour. Bhai its good to have a wish but we need to have money for it. In a financial state where we are having to beg for a fighter that we have apparently co developed as we have no money to spend, how do you see Russia trading with us when they stand to Lose billions in Indian trade.
Please understand that our choices are limited and we dont have the luxury to expand our wishes beyond the bare minimum.
Araz

 

[Farooqi1]

Farooq saheb
Please re read Pshamim saheb's post again. We dont have the money and the rest of the world at the moment is so enamoured with India and its Billions of $ s that they will not bother with its faqeer Cousin and neighbour. Bhai its good to have a wish but we need to have money for it. In a financial state where we are having to beg for a fighter that we have apparently co developed as we have no money to spend, how do you see Russia trading with us when they stand to Lose billions in Indian trade.
Please understand that our choices are limited and we dont have the luxury to expand our wishes beyond the bare minimum.
Araz

All right Brothers I gave up. May the Almighty keep us save. So far it has been a miracle that Pakistan survived. Allah will keep on protecting us Ameen

 

[sancho]

Questions...Why would you require J-10B when JFT Block III is going to be on the same level and declared by some members equal or in many areas better than Viper Block 60 weapons-avionics-radar-stealthier, Would not J-10B And JF-17 B III be of the same Generation and Capabilities by 2017.

Beeing the same generation of fighters means, having similar techs and avionics, so JF 17 Block 3 will indeed be at the same level / gen like J10B, but performancewise there will be a differences. Be it a higher payload, MTOW, speed, or numbers of hardpoints, it offers several advantages, that a smaller light class fighter with a light class engine simply can't equalise.
To make it even more obvious, JF 17 block 2 will be technologically in the same gen like EF T2 (puls doppler radar, data link capabilities, inflight refuelling, HMS...), but as we all know, the performance is way different, because both have different designs and are in different weight classes and the EF offers the above mentioned advantages.

 

[MastanKhan]

All right Brothers I gave up. May the Almighty keep us save. So far it has been a miracle that Pakistan survived. Allah will keep on protecting us Ameen

Hi,

I will say something---that will shock some of you----maybe not---whomsoever says Allah is protecting pakistan----is totally clueless as to what he is saying---it is a normal comment by the pakistanis----they simply are degrading and disrespecting their LORD GOD---.

What it comes down to in meaning---that the God of pakistanis is technically so bad that in his best capacity He is running such a miserable and pathetic and poorly managed country----. If you look at the Lord of this universe---you will see that millions and billions of stars are moving in rhythm and synchronicity---our solar system----the God of our solar system had created a perfection----.

So when you look at the God of pakistan and the God of this univers---they don't look to be the same----neither their actions are the same---nor their management is the same---one is perfection and the other!!!!!!!!

Or----there is no GOD left in pakistan----the almighty has taken its leave and let the paks on their own.

It is not a miralce that pakistan is safe----nations once formed---don't die like people----during bad times---they go into their 'death throws'-----the deaths of nations takes a very long time just like a dying star----but sometimes in nation---there lights a spark to re-invigorate the energy.

Mr Farooqi----you lost it so early my boy----this race is not a sprint----but rather a marathon----.

You know why the pakistanis won't learn----because the pakistani men and boys and girls and women don't have the learning abilities----.

When you talk to young people here in america---they are eager to learn and understand---their minds are always opme---on the other hand---pakistanis over here and at home----even young kids---are mentally so thick---even educated class----. You know how people get to that place---where they cannot or need not learn----that is when their Gods have left them to live in their own ***** and disgust.

 

[ziaulislam]

mastan is definitely a person in superiority complex. anyone who has been to US would know that surprisingly our people know more about politics and not as mentally as thick as the US people are.
for amateurs just browse on youtube. or check some surveys. most of people in USA dont even know where Israel is or where Pakistan or anything about economics or even heard the name of IMF/world bank etc..its just that they have gone through political system for centuries and thus have created an elite class that is well educated and verse..we on the other hand dont have such people apart from bhutto family which is now at its end i think.

USA superiority is much due to brain drainage from poor countries and availability of resources rather than them being super humans

P.S
any internet junky would know that theri are more lame comments in US forums than any other.
sorry for spelling isnt easy to type during hospital ward on iphone

 

[pshamim]

mastan is definitely a person in superiority complex. anyone who has been to US would know that surprisingly our people know more about politics and not as mentally as thick as the US people are.
for amateurs just browse on youtube. or check some surveys. most of people in USA dont even know where Israel is or where Pakistan or anything about economics or even heard the name of IMF/world bank etc..its just that they have gone through political system for centuries and thus have created an elite class that is well educated and verse..we on the other hand dont have such people apart from bhutto family which is now at its end i think.

USA superiority is much due to brain drainage from poor countries and availability of resources rather than them being super humans

P.S
any internet junky would know that theri are more lame comments in US forums than any other.
sorry for spelling isnt easy to type during hospital ward on iphone

Son, hope you dont feel offended by my calling you that. You are not older than my sons so I take the liberty. you need to read Mastan Khan Sahebs post several time and read between the lines to understand what he is actually saying. Dont degrade the gist of his post by labelling it a product of superiority complex. To me he does make a lot of sense.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Refrain from personal attacks or talking about the personality of any member, concentrate on the topic.

 

[MastanKhan]

mastan is definitely a person in superiority complex. anyone who has been to US would know that surprisingly our people know more about politics and not as mentally as thick as the US people are.
for amateurs just browse on youtube. or check some surveys. most of people in USA dont even know where Israel is or where Pakistan or anything about economics or even heard the name of IMF/world bank etc..its just that they have gone through political system for centuries and thus have created an elite class that is well educated and verse..we on the other hand dont have such people apart from bhutto family which is now at its end i think.

USA superiority is much due to brain drainage from poor countries and availability of resources rather than them being super humans

P.S
any internet junky would know that theri are more lame comments in US forums than any other.
sorry for spelling isnt easy to type during hospital ward on iphone

Hi,

You disappoint me-----no american has told me that I have either an inferiority or a superiority complex in the last 30 years that I have been here---I only get it from my pakistani brethren----.

The first thing that an american notices is your commitment to the cause or the job----my commitment to this place is without any prejudice to the sincerest of my abilities---I only say what I know is to educate you young people to look at things through a different looking glass---so that you can make your lives easier---have no concrete fixtures in your minds---learn to be flexible---learn to appreciate what others have done for you---never forget your identity---be ready to make compromises for trees that don't bend in heavy winds are uprooted---be just and provide justice---be kind and generous---be respectful and always willing to learn----and remember that the GOD is not only your GOD---it is the other person's GOD as well---. So---from where does the superiority complex come enforce---.

That is what you don't understand why the americans don't know about politics---. The truth is that people don't need to know about politics----the average person just needs to be like a worker bee---have a job---do his job---gets rewarded for his job---prays to his God / Creator or a higher power---takes care of the family and children---enjoys life---meets his moral obligations----fears his creators---asks for forgiveness---that is what an average american is like.

The leaders and politicians are conscious about their constituents---maybe they are corrupt---but still their constituents come first---.

Knowing about politics---seeing what is happening in pakistan---nothing for a pakistani to be proud of----itis rather a matter of shame----.

The u s is a 50 nations---like 50 countries---how many people know about 50 countries---.

 

[VelocuR]

Hi,

You disappoint me-----no american has told me that I have either an inferiority or a superiority complex in the last 30 years that I have been here---I only get it from my pakistani brethren----.

The first thing that an american notices is your commitment to the cause or the job----my commitment to this place is without any prejudice to the sincerest of my abilities---I only say what I know is to educate you young people to look at things through a different looking glass---so that you can make your lives easier---have no concrete fixtures in your minds---learn to be flexible---learn to appreciate what others have done for you---never forget your identity---be ready to make compromises for trees that don't bend in heavy winds are uprooted---be just and provide justice---be kind and generous---be respectful and always willing to learn----and remember that the GOD is not only your GOD---it is the other person's GOD as well---. So---from where does the superiority complex come enforce---.

That is what you don't understand why the americans don't know about politics---. The truth is that people don't need to know about politics----the average person just needs to be like a worker bee---have a job---do his job---gets rewarded for his job---prays to his God / Creator or a higher power---takes care of the family and children---enjoys life---meets his moral obligations----fears his creators---asks for forgiveness---that is what an average american is like.

The leaders and politicians are conscious about their constituents---maybe they are corrupt---but still their constituents come first---.

Knowing about politics---seeing what is happening in pakistan---nothing for a pakistani to be proud of----itis rather a matter of shame----.

The u s is a 50 nations---like 50 countries---how many people know about 50 countries---.

I agree with you for the first time, that's good........Shabaash, sir! I tend to say look at the people, they didn't stop fighting and kill them in Pakistan culture and never learn anything.

I think, JFT is great progress that will benefit Pakistan long-terms self-sufficients and technology instead purchasing. Example, we face difficulty from US sanctions. For Russia jets, we can't guarantees it.

 

[Armstrong]

Hi,

You disappoint me-----........The u s is a 50 nations---like 50 countries---how many people know about 50 countries---.

Mr.Khan, always a pleasure to read your 'reality checks' but don't you think that some of those are strikingly close to 'doom and gloom' ! Seeing what is happening in Pakistan may not fill us, Pakistanis, with pride but with such an intense debate going on in Pakistan on everything from the raison detre of Pakistan to the open castigation of the Government by the People, somethings are encouraging indeed ? Mr.Khan what you and your generation did for Pakistan (the highs and the lows) and what the generations before you did for our Pakistan are well known and appreciated (I mean that !); now give us, the youth of Pakistan, a chance to contribute - You won't be disappointed, my dear sir ! Trust in us !

 

[Safriz]

Since Beidou has built in sysstem for different stations sending each other their current position...
JF-17+Beidou will be a great step towards networking the aircrafts together without any need of additional satellites.
one jf-17 pilot will always know where other jf-17s are even if their radars are jammed or link 16 jammed/failed.

 

[Bratva]

Since Beidou has built in sysstem for different stations sending each other their current position...
JF-17+Beidou will be a great step towards networking the aircrafts together without any need of additional satellites.
one jf-17 pilot will always know where other jf-17s are even if their radars are jammed or link 16 jammed/failed.

Beidou is in testing stages, so it's not feasible and efficient to put beidou chips in JF-17.

And it's my hunch block-1 will not be upgraded to Block-2 standards due to shortage of funds... So Block-1 JF-17 without datalinks, IFR and other stuff will mostly be used to teach new pilots transitioning to JF-17 squadron, BVR tactics will be taught on Block-1 as well as for point defense and limited A2G operation

Block-1 has TWR of 0.95 and adding fixed IFR, upgraded radar which require more power. Will it affect the maneuverability of JF-17 somewhat and will it decrease TWR too? because block-2 has the same engine RD-93.

 

[Safriz]

Beidou is in testing stages, so it's not feasible and efficient to put beidou chips in JF-17.

And it's my hunch block-1 will not be upgraded to Block-2 standards due to shortage of funds... So Block-1 JF-17 without datalinks, IFR and other stuff will mostly be used to teach new pilots transitioning to JF-17 squadron, BVR tactics will be taught on Block-1 as well as for point defense and limited A2G operation

Block-1 has TWR of 0.95 and adding fixed IFR, upgraded radar which require more power. Will it affect the maneuverability of JF-17 somewhat and will it decrease TWR too? because block-2 has the same engine RD-93.

no beidou is no more in testing phase..its in deployment phase...with more satellites being launched to complete the constellation...
although pakistan us already covered by fully operational beidou-1 and operational but yet incomplete beidou-2 also covers the whole pakustan and india .
and the actual chip doesnt cost much...its the technicalities that nay ake effort..
but i am sure a chinese avionics suite will have fulky integrated beidou communication caoabilities...andthat alone will network all jf-17s...data link or not

 

[ziaulislam]

TWR of thunder has been up and down and due to lack of concrete data on engine thrust. but even if IFR and some avionics updates are done the TWR is quiet impressive atleast its better than mirage 2000 even if its inferior to mighty f-16

i think the block 1 is still a very potent BVR capable aircrft, atleast on paper(KLJ-7 and Sd-10A). so it even if not further upgraded would be a very important asset to PAF

P.S
well honestly very few of mastan posts are reality check, most of them consists of are nice language and stories. anyway no offense to any member i respect your views.
you didnt got these words from american because you never talked to them like that, because any sane person wouldnt understand the logic behind the american Jewish policy, had Americans had logic and knowledge they wouldnt had been manipulated by such a small lobby. being democracy aren't they putting too much online for such a samll state ? ..its because they have good ruling elite they we dont have.. that what i am talking about , that the difference between us and them not that our people are foolish and idiots, in fact they are much better.

 

[Bratva]

no beidou is no more in testing phase..its in deployment phase...with more satellites being launched to complete the constellation...
although pakistan us already covered by fully operational beidou-1 and operational but yet incomplete beidou-2 also covers the whole pakustan and india .
and the actual chip doesnt cost much...its the technicalities that nay ake effort..
but i am sure a chinese avionics suite will have fulky integrated beidou communication caoabilities...andthat alone will network all jf-17s...data link or not

If networking all fighter planes through satellite was feasible. America would have not develop Link-16 for their F-16's, F-15's or F-22. Satellite networking is optional in every aircraft because it's not reliable as well as feasible due to the strength of signals which are weak and can easily be jammed in Hi tech EW environment