JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[BATMAN]

j-10 and f-16 acquisition that might not depend upon money (who knows we get the j-10 on loan and f-16 for free ) will also define its number...and the availability of j-2xx a good fifth gen aircrft

Pakistan shall not take any thing for free or on loan.
If some country wish to support unilaterally, they shall contact Mr. Abdul Sattar Edhi.

FYI, There is no such thing as free lunch.
There is not a single a/c in Pakistan inventory which came for free.

No country will give you technology, until they see you are close to build it.
US sold us F-16 to fight with Russia, while France reject to give us avionics because they want you to loose.

However our leaders had been selling Pakistan in guise of these deals.
History tells us Pakistan has served US as no nation can do and yet they kept your money and made wheat deal with corrupt civil govt. PPP. Where they charged millions only as shipping costs.

Therefore, i do not favor any foreign deals.

Al-Hamdullilah, we make JFT in house which creat jobs and save forex shall be focused, developed and added in numbers.

1- I want to ask experts.. how does HUD and HMS/HMD work together?

2- Does our MLUed F-16 will have HUD or JFT will continue to be a technology dominant fighter in PAF inventory?

 

[Bratva]

Insider news of 150 JF-17 seems inaccurate. Based on official news and briefings at Dubai airshow. Block-2 will start building in 2012 and will end at 2015. In 2016 Block-3 will be commenced, in which we will see very significant changes, like twin seater, aesa, irst, new engine etc etc.

Based on what santro said about 150 aircrafts , which means 50-100 Block-2 and 100-150 block-3, which seems insensible because when we can make 50 JF-17's in 2 years then why will we require 3-4 years for making block-2?

So most probably 50-150 will be Block-2 and according to finances available at that time in 2016, it will be decided, how much block-3 will be produced, either 150-200 or 150-250.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

... when we can make 50 JF-17's in 2 years then why will we require 3-4 years for making block-2?
...

2007-2012 isn't 2 years.

 

[Bratva]

2007-2012 isn't 2 years.

When production started in Pakistan? in 2007 or in November 2009?

With 1.5 Aircraft per month or 17-18 aircrafts in a year, it will mostly take, 2.8 years to build 50 aircrafts.

 

[soul hacker]

 

[ziaulislam]

PAF would definetly get 150 aircrfts by 2015 it just make sense as there are 4 years and its increasing its capacity ..real question is how many block 3 will be inducted and as i said before it will depend upon many factors, especially the number of F-16s and j-10s we can get hold of and the status of J-2x.

 

[Manticore]

the impression that i got is the next 50 will be ''batch2 of blk1'' -- these fighters must have the structural modifications /space & capability to house advanced systems in the future when our economy improves

 

[SQ8]

the impression that i got is the next 50 will be ''batch2 of blk1'' -- these fighters must have the structural modifications /space & capability to house advanced systems in the future when our economy improves

That is EXACTLY what it is.. with the exception that the initial batch is not plumbed for IFR yet.
Batch-2 will be IFR capable off the factory floor.
Small tweaks to the avionics and that will be the ONLY way to tell batch-2 apart from batch-1.
The first 100 will be almost identical save for the fixed IFR probe on the second batch..

 

[farhan_9909]

2007-2012 isn't 2 years.

mass production started on 30th june 2009.

and its been 28 months passed.and 42 aircraft.

and as per the JFT timeline described in the JFT promotional video by JFT head from cac represent JfT production will end by 2015 end.

now you have 48 months and 100 JFT target.as it was said the production will increase to 25 aircrafts per year.

a very easy target indeed

 

[ziaulislam]

well there are still noticeable changes in block 2 with regard to block 1 if IFR, avionics tweak/improvement and especially if IRST is added

if you are thinking on the line of F-16 to expect very significant structural changes..that cant happen within a few years of operation of an aircraft and of course it wont happen unless the engine changes..structural changes/major changes are usually associated with change in thrust and weight carrying capability

 

[farhan_9909]

if by tweaked avionic means improvement in Klj-7 like more modes
and other upgrades
like IFR
NEw ECM/Data link
MAA-1B integration
SD-10A/B confirmed integration
More use of composite to reduce weight
and may be we see dual rack sd-10 too
And radar is nt a big issue.we can add it later if seriously needed
these upgrades itself are serious upgrades over the block 1/batch 1.


Though a guy named bill huang from chineese defence forums in fb keep saying that AESA and IRST are still confirmed..

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

if by tweaked avionic means improvement in Klj-7 like more modes
and other upgrades
like IFR
NEw ECM/Data link
MAA-1B integration
SD-10A/B confirmed integration
More use of composite to reduce weight
and may be we see dual rack sd-10 too
And radar is nt a big issue.we can add it later if seriously needed
these upgrades itself are serious upgrades over the block 1/batch 1.


Though a guy named bill huang from chineese defence forums in fb keep saying that AESA and IRST are still confirmed..

 

[SQ8]

well there are still noticeable changes in block 2 with regard to block 1 if IFR, avionics tweak/improvement and especially if IRST is added

if you are thinking on the line of F-16 to expect very significant structural changes..that cant happen within a few years of operation of an aircraft and of course it wont happen unless the engine changes..structural changes/major changes are usually associated with change in thrust and weight carrying capability

if by tweaked avionic means improvement in Klj-7 like more modes
and other upgrades
like IFR
NEw ECM/Data link
MAA-1B integration
SD-10A/B confirmed integration
More use of composite to reduce weight
and may be we see dual rack sd-10 too
And radar is nt a big issue.we can add it later if seriously needed
these upgrades itself are serious upgrades over the block 1/batch 1.


Though a guy named bill huang from Chinese defence forums in fb keep saying that AESA and IRST are still confirmed..

I wouldn't keep my hopes up.
And the F-16's initial blocks did not really have Major structural changes till Block 15.

Already confirmed, locked.. stamped, attested ..DONE! for the first batch

No composites, expensive.. takes away the prime Idea.
Which is ??...... COST EFFECTIVENESS!!

And the radar isnt really a big issue.. the KLJ-7 is being underestimated if there was any definition of underestimation.
It is a very very good system where it comes to non-ESA radars.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

mass production started on 30th june 2009.
...

Halaka, I was avidly following the JFT programme so I remember the timeline, the first planes cam in 2007, infact the first 10. Assembly began in late 2008 and manufacture with 20% Pakistani components in 2009.

I could be wrong though.

And I agree the rate of production now should be higher than in 2009, and the next 50 could be inducted in a shorter period of time.

 

[Pak47]

What about Hard points on block 2?

Is there going to be an increase or we sticking with 7?

 

[farhan_9909]

I wouldn't keep my hopes up.
And the F-16's initial blocks did not really have Major structural changes till Block 15.

Already confirmed, locked.. stamped, attested ..DONE! for the first batch

No composites, expensive.. takes away the prime Idea.
Which is ??...... COST EFFECTIVENESS!!

And the radar isnt really a big issue.. the KLJ-7 is being underestimated if there was any definition of underestimation.
It is a very very good system where it comes to non-ESA radars.

in may 2011 when PM visited china than the deal for 2nd batch was confirmed..there were also rumours of urgent deliveries.
and the price stated was 25mn USD that time for the 2nd batch.and the Block 1 cost 12-15millions USD for PAK when locally assembled.these plus 10-12millions will add atleast some goodies like more composite and tweaked avionics

Pakistan has a deal to get about a dozen F-16s from the US but these are too expensive and too few for Pakistan’s comfort. Hence the Thunder option. While an F-16 will set back Pakistan by a cool $125m, the J-15 will cost ‘only’ $25m. That means $1.25bn for a batch of 50. The same number of F-16s would have cost $6.26bn.

Sky Wars: Pakistan, India and China | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

So 25million or 1.25bn USD for 50JFT are already confirmed.

Now i dnt think with 10-12millions more expanse we will get the same old thing bt with IFR only.

though i agree with you about cost effectiveness bt 25millions is also nt expansive as 50 fighters only make 1250millions or 625millions per year when PAF budget is 2bn USD.

well i dnt want improve radar or anything

bt IRST and COmposite should be made first priority in the 2nd block.

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Pt-06 when carrying LS-6 Precision Guided Glide Bomb