JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[farhan_9909]

Any body has information on which HMS (helmet mounted sights) we are going to use on JF-17 since the discussion was going JF-17 II vs Block 52 ... with BLK-52 having JHMCS (one of the best HMS's in the world)

And I dont want to jump into conclusions right now ... but is it because we maybe interested in some non chinese HMS's?

idk may be south african HMS

 

[satishkumarcsc]

idk may be south african HMS

South Africa dosent have one....the one fitted in the South African Jas 39 systems is the Cobra HMD designed, developed and manufactured by BAe systems.

 

[farhan_9909]

South Africa dosent have one....the one fitted in the South African Jas 39 systems is the Cobra HMD designed, developed and manufactured by BAe systems.

actually south african AF is a PIONEER when someone talk about HMD

 

[SQ8]

Any body has information on which HMS (helmet mounted sights) we are going to use on JF-17 since the discussion was going JF-17 II vs Block 52 ... with BLK-52 having JHMCS (one of the best HMS's in the world)

And I dont want to jump into conclusions right now ... but is it because we maybe interested in some non chinese HMS's?

Currently no HMS.. two or three possibilities being considered now along with the HMS operational with the F-7PG's

 

[satishkumarcsc]

actually south african AF is a PIONEER when someone talk about HMD

They dont have any modern ones that they have now.

 

[Bratva]

Currently no HMS.. two or three possibilities being considered now along with the HMS operational with the F-7PG's

Are you sure? I mean, you caught me by surprise, any hint what kind of HMD we are talking about and with this HMD can we use, 5th generation AAM and can do cueing?

 

[Manticore]

i had posted them , however all my uploads via forum attachments of 2009 have somehow vanished
http://www.defence.pk/forums/defence-club/30829-aviation-helmet-designs-helmet-mounted-systems.html

What ..........................
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View attachment 4234

Advanced Helmet Systems:
The South African “Archer” helmet mounted display (top) uses light emitting diodes to track pilot head position in order to target weapons. The Cigong Group helmet sight seen a the 2004 Zhuhai show used a similar head tracking system. Any potential South African help with new PLA AAMs likely included the sale of advanced helmet display technology. Source: Denel and RD Fisher

View attachment 4235

PL-9C and HMS: It is not clear that the PL-9C AAM with the TK-14 helmet sight is in widespread PLA service, an indication that the PLA was instead waiting for a more advanced short-range AAM. Source: RD Fisher

Helmet Mounted Sight (HMS) and the Chinese HMS

Though the exact type of the helmet mounted sights for JF-17 is yet to be determined, the HMS will be standard. JF-17 is compatible with a wide range of HMS, and its HMS will be at least equal or better than the HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PG, which first appeared in 2002 at air show and various defense / electronics exhibitions such as CIDEX held in China. According to the staff from the developing firms and their advertise at these exhibitions, the HMS offered for J-7E/F-7PG is already better than the latest Russian HMS available on the export market in that the Chinese HMS is specifically designed to improve the performance of the Russian system, and it outperforms its Russian counterparts including ASP-AVD-21, Shchel series, Sura series in various fields:

* In comparison to the original standard Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard the MiG-29 and Flanker family, the field of view of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGis +/- 90 degrees, which is far greater than the mere +/- 8 degrees of the Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS.
* In comparison to the latest Russian HMS available with +/- 60 degrees of field of view, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG still enjoys much greater field of view at +/- 90 degrees.
* The elevation of the latest Russian HMS designed to replace the original ASP-PVD-21 HMS onboard MiG-29 and Flanker family is only +/- 40 degrees, while in contrast, the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG is already +/- 45 degrees.
* The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG already had higher reliability than the Russian HMS.
* The Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG are easier and much cheaper to manufacture than its Russian counterparts.

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGhas already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG. Three major Chinese manufacturers, XBOE, the 613th Institute, and LuoyangOptoelectro Technology Development Center have already developed a variety of HMS systems with improvements including the adaptation of common attachments and power sources so that all night vision goggles and HMS are interchangeable, without the need to replace the entire system. The weight would be further reduced from the 200 grams weight of the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG, while the performance is further increased (mainly in the increase of elevation angles). While it cannot be confirmed the claims by various sources that the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10developed from HMS onboard the J-7E/F-7PGwould be selected for JF-17, the aircraft is certainly compatible with the more advanced Chinese HMS onboard Chengdu J-10

A HMD/S such as the Guardian or the Cobra with a HOBS missile would also be something the PAF is likely to be looking at

 

[SQ8]

Are you sure? I mean, you caught me by surprise, any hint what kind of HMD we are talking about and with this HMD can we use, 5th generation AAM and can do cueing?

Basic.. like the ones found on the mig-29 for use with the aa-11.

 

[ziaulislam]

the block one has simply NOT INTEGRATED HMS YET..it can be later added tot the block 1
regarding BVR its already been integrated, PAF is simply waiting for SD-10B.
HMS, we dont have any solid info about its intergation yet..i think lack of info is real isuue. why thunder provides so many option in airshows instead of clearly showing the standard one is that in an export aircrft this will depend upon customer choice

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Someone is getting banned if the thread keeps being hijacked into comparisons with other aircraft - modern air-warfare is not just about Jet X vs Jet Y - it involves the entire gamut of air assets of all sorts, ground based systems, tactics, technology etc.

Stick to the JF-17 (and its various subsystems and components) discussion please.

 

[fatman17]

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGhas already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG

is PAF testing this HMS for its F-7PG (double/delta) pilots.?

 

[abdulbarijan]

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGhas already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG
is PAF testing this HMS for its F-7PG (double/delta) pilots.?

There is total silence on the issue.....like always...

This is what eagle hannan said

Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.

However i failed to find any brazillian HMS on the web so help there would be appreciated....however we do know that Denel took part in the development of Cobra HMD,we also have the Archer HMD made by south Africa

Just to get the connection clear Denel (south african) is also involved in the A-darter programme with mectron (Brazilian)


But this occurring points out that we have atleast 2 to 3 different options (like Santro said) ....
And we will take the one which is good BOTH price and quality wise...

This has been a key aspect of the JFT program, although economical but quality is not compromised which is why we see the JF-17 where it is today....

My personal guess for the time of integration of HMS is after we get A-darters and SD-10B's (2013-2015).....
and all i can hope is that PAF makes the right choice...which is mostly the case when it comes to the JFT...

 

[SQ8]

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PGhas already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for J-7E/F-7PG

is PAF testing this HMS for its F-7PG (double/delta) pilots.?

Rumored to be operational.

 

[Dazzler]

Yes it came bundled with PGs. Its a good rugged system and JFT is already compatible with it but PAF has gone for an undisclosed HMD system which is a closely guarded secret. No HMS for JFT just HMD

 

[farhan_9909]

doesnt look like the chineese.though resemble to the south african posted by antibody