JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Donatello]

Guys can we please stop spreading rumors and rather wait for confirmation on the specs? because this is just getting more confusing.

 

[farhan_9909]

??

 

[ziaulislam]

Halaka, I was avidly following the JFT programme so I remember the timeline, the first planes cam in 2007, infact the first 10. Assembly began in late 2008 and manufacture with 20% Pakistani components in 2009.

I could be wrong though.

And I agree the rate of production now should be higher than in 2009, and the next 50 could be inducted in a shorter period of time.

the first jf-17 made in pakistan was rolled out in late November 2009, check you tube..you find the ceremony dated 23 november 2009 of PTV

before that aircraft were pre batch manufactured in china..so actual manufacturing started in late august 2009 and it picked up some pace in in 2010.
so in two years and a few months 42 aircrfts were manufactured

 

[prabhakar]

Guys... what happened to the urgent delivery of 50 JF-17 from china ? when They are arriving or pakistan is making them inhouse ?

 

[farhan_9909]

Guys... what happened to the urgent delivery of 50 JF-17 from china ? when They are arriving or pakistan is making them inhouse ?

nothing

that were actually the 2nd batch of 50 JFT for 1.25billions USD

 

[Edevelop]

I have a question. What is the difference between JF-17 Canopy and F-16 Canopy.?

I mean why is it yellow in F-16 and a simple glass in JF-17?

 

[Imran Khan]

I have a question. What is the difference between JF-17 Canopy and F-16 Canopy.?

I mean why is it yellow in F-16 and a simple glass in JF-17?

Jf-17 canopy image by najamkhan on Photobucket

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

I have a question. What is the difference between JF-17 Canopy and F-16 Canopy.?

I mean why is it yellow in F-16 and a simple glass in JF-17?

even many f-16s in paf dont have golden canopy dear its discussed already golden canopy is expensive .

 

[farhan_9909]

I have a question. What is the difference between JF-17 Canopy and F-16 Canopy.?

I mean why is it yellow in F-16 and a simple glass in JF-17?

Most of 5th gen fighter has gold tilted canopy

i suspect it is used to reduce RCS..

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The Gold "Tinted" canopy is used to reduce radar reflection.

 

[Edevelop]

The Gold "Tinted" canopy is used to reduce radar reflection.

Wow there are lots of ways to reduce radar reflection on fighter jets. How about if we try to develop retractable refuelling probes on JF-17. The fixed ones will increase RCS and it won't look good for the pilot. I think things like an IRST and fixed refuelling probes in front of the canopy will not make it easy for a pilot to fly, it sort of comes in between your line of sight.

 

[nomi007]

hope jf-17 thunder block2 will be the state of the art

 

[abdulbarijan]

Just saw the article which was very famous among the IDF members and some people were boucing up and down all over it.... I know that most of you guys have already saw it .... but just in case you didn't....

Well I wont go for LCA Tejas on this more or less (some of the things that were mentioned although were hilarious ..I'll get to that in a minute) ....

First off here is the link to the article
Pakistan's JF-17 V/S India's LCA-Tejas; Comparison With Latest Figures | The World Reporter: News Opinion and Analysis

Plane JF-17
.
Empty Weight 6,411 kg
.
Loaded Weight 9,100kg

.
Max. Take off Weight 12,700 kg

.
Powerplant 1 × Klimov RD-93 or WS-13 turbofan

.
Dry Thrust 49.4 Kn

.
Thrust with Afterburner 84.4 Kn

.
G-limit +8.5 g

.
Internal Fuel Capacity 2300 kg

.
Maximum speed Mach 1.8
.
Ferry range 3,480 km

.
Service ceiling 16,920 m

.
Thrust/weight 0.95

#1
Now we can see what the guy did...he took majorly all figures from the Izmir release but when it came on Max thrust he went back to the old claim instead of 84.4 KN claim instead of using the one which was the same chart that he took all those figures from

19391 lb = 86.2 KN

Reason for this change:-
I'll tell ya the reason as well,it was because he couldn't find any reference of Ge-F-404 having thrust over 85 KN...

Effect of this change:-

The T/W ratio which is now mentioned in this chart as 0.95 goes to 0.966
if we use 86.2 KN claim

#2 The next point of the guy is

While India's plane has a unique and latest delta wing airframe, JF-17 is based on Soviet era's MiG 21 airframe. It is wrongly believed that the JF-17 airframe is based on MiG 29.

However he uses this link before to say that Russia helped PAC and CAC

Mikoyan joins Chengdu on fighter

This is what the article mentioned

Mikoyan is providing design support and has seconded a team of engineers to CAC. The aircraft resembles an earlier Mikoyan design given the internal designation MiG-33. The design, developed in the early 1980s, was intended as a light dogfight aircraft.

So while his own link goes and says that JF-17 was somehow based on Mig-33 the writer goes on and insists that it was based on Mig-21 (to make believe that the design is old and rusty)..

#3

China has now no interest in inducting any fleet of JF-17 in its air force, as it is now considering including its J-10 fighters, though China has kept development and production of JF-17 on for delivering them to Pakistan.

Which is real funny so China made a whole new version (FC-1) with total chinese avionics and subsystems,testing chinese WS-13 etc for what??
Just for export purposes..??
While PAF's ACM is on record saying that "FC-1 will find its place in the PLAAF"
The guy has no link,no official quote to prove the statement that he made...

#4

Rather than using the Ada programming language, which is developed dedicated for military applications, the software for the aircraft is written using the popular civilian C++ programming language which 11th standards student use to make programs in high schools

While JSF also uses C++ as programming language,a
jet that is supposed to be the world's best in avionics and softwares...LOL!

Dear,

When you develop for an embedded system, C++ is the boss ... why ... because

1. It allows native arithmetic, without any need for encapsulated intermediaries.
2. Its a true "Write once compile anywhere" architecture ... spanning 8bit, 16bit, 32bit, 64bit and even 128bit flawlessly. Have you even came across a recent supercomputer/mainframe code written in Java/Ada ?
3. Native and non-Native liberaries can be dynamically or statically linked very very very easily.
4. Flexible memory management ... use stack, heap and any other form of memory ... use MMU if your hardware supports it, dont use it if it doesnt support etc etc ...
5. Macros, operator overloading and much much innovation that came only with C/C++ and some languages supported it and some simply coudn't
6. And much more goodies that make it essentially a superset of Ada/Java/C# ... which makes it essentially difficult to comprehend as a whole, but much too easy to find a work-around for any specefic need.

All embedded devices (minus concurrent hardware i.e. FPGAs) use C++. The only exception came with Android that tried to bring Java into action ... but then they had to bring in JNI and NDK to fill in the gaps where Java couldnt provided which had already been there in C++ since decades.

And btw this is from more than a decade of embedded programming experience.

Regards,
Sapper

#5

JF-17 Not as advanced as LCA: Nawaz Sharif, Former Prime Minister of Pakistan(jpeg)


"I have heard it is very advanced plane, but it is not ready yet." Said Nawaz Sharif to retired Air Commodre Pervez Khokhar. Praising the JF-17 without mentioning Chinese cooperation he further added in light mood, "I am saying you buy this plane from us, though it is not as advanced as your LCA, but it also has a glass cockpit like yours and can drop bombs for you."

Its hilarious you know many people around the web have used this....
My advice see the article and read it first

This is what Nawaz says( and u can cross check from the article itself)

"-Ive heard its an advanced aircraft but its not ready yet
-Its not as sophisticated as your LCA,but it too has a glass cockpit and can drop alot of bombs.
-Why dont you buy this aircraft from us,it is cheaper and will deliver the bombs for you"

Take a look at the context and you would realize him being sarcastic and whats more funnier is the writer himself goes on the end and accepts the exact same thing

"Later Pushpindar and I discussed this brief encounter.One was that many truth were spoken in jest"
and the writer of this (nawaz article) goes on and discusses the delays in LCA Tejas...


Now lets take a look at the LCA section

LCA Tejas section:-
I'll keep it brief here

-He mentions the T/w ratio at 1.07 while giving max thrust at 85 Kn and loaded weight at 10,500 Kg.

If you go ahead and calculate it comes out to be 0.82..

-He mentions that LCA's G limit is +9/-3 G's

while by IOC standards it is not over +6g/-2 G's

Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

-He mentions LCA is 4.5 generation while JF-17 is 4th .

.

which is funny cuz IAF chief calls LCA as 3rd generation
Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

-In India's LCA case: Airframe, Radar, Avionics, Cockpit, landing Gear, Ejection System, Flight Simulator, Software, Propulsion (when Kaveri will come) all are home made and not imported.

Just check this link out for the indigenous LCA tejas
rediff.com: Admiral J G Nadkarni (retd) on the sad tale of the Light Combat Aircraft


IT is clear that Indian writers will do anything in their power to delude their population,whether it is changing the figures of a fighter all together,cheating or maybe contradicting their own figures...

Request to the mods

I know we all go and say Indian media this and that...but we should atleast be allowed to prove them wrong instead and in case you dont like my post and think it is somehow derailing the thread plz remove the LCA part and let the JF-17 part remain .....Thanks...

 

[Manticore]

this is somewhat an old article... a lot of non reputables sites are publishing anti-jft articles with little research --

btw i am scaling down my jft article to 1/3 to get it published-- just havent gotten any time to do its last reading yet

 

[SQ8]

Insider news of 150 JF-17 seems inaccurate. Based on official news and briefings at Dubai airshow. Block-2 will start building in 2012 and will end at 2015. In 2016 Block-3 will be commenced, in which we will see very significant changes, like twin seater, aesa, irst, new engine etc etc.

Based on what santro said about 150 aircrafts , which means 50-100 Block-2 and 100-150 block-3, which seems insensible because when we can make 50 JF-17's in 2 years then why will we require 3-4 years for making block-2?

So most probably 50-150 will be Block-2 and according to finances available at that time in 2016, it will be decided, how much block-3 will be produced, either 150-200 or 150-250.

Im not sure what you mean by 3-4 years for block 2?
Block 2 starts somewhere in 2013.. with block 3 in 2016.
You did not make 50 JF-17's in two years.
You made and let me give you the numbers.

You started production in 2009 and you had your 8 IPB JF-17's(including the special painted one)
You had 26 SRP JF-17's by sep 2011..
By 2013 you will finish block-1..
So you started in 2009 and in 2013.. almost 4 years later you have 50 Thunders(including the IPB's).
It was not a case of constant 10 or thunders per month.. but a ramped up production line.

When you start batch-2 in 2013.. your production line will be more refined and improved.
Which is why you have a target of completing that batch by 2016.. one year less than it took for you to do the first batch.
Then you will look into batch-3.

So.. I think you need to recheck your thoughts and match the dates on what began when.

 

[Dazzler]

some versions of F-16s have gold filmed canopy to reduce radar signature. They are expensive but have been proved as quite effective. There are no plans to coat JFT canopy with gold because it already has less radar signature than the F-16.