JF-17 test flight with ws-13 "taisan" engine.

[Beast]

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mz...926&idx=1&sn=1cbcbd84fcddd7c053d09d39fdbc31d1

Development for WS-13 (complete reverse engineer of RD-33) started in 2003 as the very possibility of political pressure from India to stop RD-33 export engine to PAF. WS-13 development is to ensure steady supplier of engines for JF-17 project. But as Russian realize China has a parallel project for their own domestic engine to replace RD-33 engine. There is very little incentive to stop the export which can earn extra cash for Russian.

The development is quite smooth and very little glitch throughout the process. Due to complete engineering of RD-33 engine, domestic WS-13 and RD-33 engine are indistinguishable. Therefore the misleading analogy that JF-17 still uses Russian imported RD-33 engine. But over the years due to China superior metallurgy compare to China, much superior fan blade with high lifespan and higher temperature tolerant. Thrust has significantly increase compare to earlier generation of RD-33 engine.

Development of domestic WS-13 engine for JF-17 started on 2003, completed in 2007 and initial small batch equipped JF-17. Estimated currently all engine equipped JF-17 are all Chinese domestic made WS-13 engine.

 

[maverick1977]

Are u saying Pakistan is manufacturing this engine locally ??? Where did they get alloys for it ? Local heavy industries or China ?
I can understand the tooling can be provided by China ...

 

[Khafee]

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mz...926&idx=1&sn=1cbcbd84fcddd7c053d09d39fdbc31d1

Development for WS-13 (complete reverse engineer of RD-33) started in 2003 as the very possibility of political pressure from India to stop RD-33 export engine to PAF. WS-13 development is to ensure steady supplier of engines for JF-17 project. But as Russian realize China has a parallel project for their own domestic engine to replace RD-33 engine. There is very little incentive to stop the export which can earn extra cash for Russian.

The development is quite smooth and very little glitch throughout the process. Due to complete engineering of RD-33 engine, domestic WS-13 and RD-33 engine are indistinguishable. Therefore the misleading analogy that JF-17 still uses Russian imported RD-33 engine. But over the years due to China superior metallurgy compare to China, much superior fan blade with high lifespan and higher temperature tolerant. Thrust has significantly increase compare to earlier generation of RD-33 engine.

Development of domestic WS-13 engine for JF-17 started on 2003, completed in 2007 and initial small batch equipped JF-17. Estimated currently all engine equipped JF-17 are all Chinese domestic made WS-13 engine.

You mean RD 93. Right?

 

[The Eagle]

There is too little, except for this article, to prove that JF-17 is flying with WS-13 engine. I will be agree on part of been tested on JF-17 but speaking of almost all JF-17 are powered with WS-13 does not fit situation at all.

 

[Pakistani Aircraft]

Pakistan purchased 400 RD-93 engines from Russia via China.

 

[Muslim Warrior]

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mz...926&idx=1&sn=1cbcbd84fcddd7c053d09d39fdbc31d1

Development for WS-13 (complete reverse engineer of RD-33) started in 2003 as the very possibility of political pressure from India to stop RD-33 export engine to PAF. WS-13 development is to ensure steady supplier of engines for JF-17 project. But as Russian realize China has a parallel project for their own domestic engine to replace RD-33 engine. There is very little incentive to stop the export which can earn extra cash for Russian.

The development is quite smooth and very little glitch throughout the process. Due to complete engineering of RD-33 engine, domestic WS-13 and RD-33 engine are indistinguishable. Therefore the misleading analogy that JF-17 still uses Russian imported RD-33 engine. But over the years due to China superior metallurgy compare to China, much superior fan blade with high lifespan and higher temperature tolerant. Thrust has significantly increase compare to earlier generation of RD-33 engine.

Development of domestic WS-13 engine for JF-17 started on 2003, completed in 2007 and initial small batch equipped JF-17. Estimated currently all engine equipped JF-17 are all Chinese domestic made WS-13 engine.

I thought we were using RD 93 ... Any source to ur claims sir?

 

[Beast]

You mean RD 93. Right?

RD-33 and RD-93 are the same thing just a different designation for different project.

Just like AL-31F and AL-31FN, both are the same engine with same spec but just a small change of different gearbox location. The thrust, lifespan and weight are the same..

 

[Mentee]

Pakistan purchased 400 RD-93 engines from Russia via China.

Do count in the export orders as well

 

[BHarwana]

Pakistan is producing engine locally?

 

[Quwa]

Are u saying Pakistan is manufacturing this engine locally ??? Where did they get alloys for it ? Local heavy industries or China ?
I can understand the tooling can be provided by China ...

Pakistan is producing engine locally?

No. The article is just claiming that the JF-17 is now using WS-13, not RD-93. The "domestic" part is in context of the Chinese, i.e., 'a domestic Chinese engine'. Nothing about Pakistan manufacturing the engine.

 

[The Eagle]

RD-33 and RD-93 are the same thing just a different designation for different project.

Just like AL-31F and AL-31FN, both are the same engine with same spec but just a small change of different gearbox location. The thrust, lifespan and weight are the same..

From the words of Project Director of JF-17

“The JF-17 is often described by its manufacturer and military observers as an advanced but also cost-effective fighter,” the Global Times reported. The JF-17, which uses a Russian-supplied engine, predominantly carries Chinese-origin weapons.

 

[Beast]

Pakistan purchased 400 RD-93 engines from Russia via China.

I seriously doubt so. Actually, Russia has very little incentive to sell more engine to support JF-17 project that start to eat into their share of export. Myanmar AF , a traditional customer of Russian airforce product with their Mig-29 buys JF-17. Selling RD-33/93 engine is just like smacking its own foot for Russian.

"As of 2010, with the FC-1 in direct competition with the MiG-29 in the international market, Russian aircraft manufacturers have raised concerns regarding the re-export of the FC-1's RD-93 engines. The FC-1 is competing against the MiG-29 in an Egyptian tender for 32 fighter aircraft. Mikhail Pogosyan, head of the MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus, has recommended to the Russian defence export agency Rosoboronexport that sales of RD-93 engines to China be blocked to prevent the JF-17 from competing with the MiG-29 on the international market."

http://www.machtres.com/lang1/fc1.html

This article raised some interesting timeline for RD-33/93 engine.

"Russia signed an agreement in August 2007 for re-export 150 RD-93 engines from China to Pakistan for the JF-17 fighter jet. Prior to the 2008 International Defence Exhibition and Seminar in Pakistan, news emerged that the PAF was not fully satisfied with the RD-93 turbofan engine and it would only power the first batch of 50 aircraft. "

Then we see subsequently in 2010, suddenly a big U-turn from French

"In April 2010, the deal was reportedly suspended after 18 months of negotiations. Reports cited French concerns in regards to Pakistan's financial situation, the protection of sensitive French technology and lobbying by the Indian government, who operate large numbers of French-origin fighters. France wanted the PAF to purchase a number of French-built Mirage 2000-9 fighters from the United Arab Emirates Air Force, a sale which would be made unnecessary if the JF-17 upgraded with French systems. However in July 2010 these reports were stated to be false by the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, "I have had discussions with French Government officials who have assured me that this is not the position of their government." Suleman also speculated that: "someone was trying to cause mischief – to put pressure on France not to supply the avionics we want."

Suddenly, the French avionic is not needed and so called possible engine from French is also shifted. 2010 is the year where Chinese WS-13 started initial batch equipped of JF-17.

From the words of Project Director of JF-17

“The JF-17 is often described by its manufacturer and military observers as an advanced but also cost-effective fighter,” the Global Times reported. The JF-17, which uses a Russian-supplied engine, predominantly carries Chinese-origin weapons.

Come on, you are not going to tell around the world , we RE the whole RD-33 engine and not paying a single cent to Russian, right? There is nothing glorious about RE the whole Russian engine but we need to be self sufficient to ensure non disrupt of engine for JF-17 project. There will never be an official statement tell you about RE of JF-17 project engine.

 

[The Eagle]

Come on, you are not going to tell around the world , we RE the whole RD-33 engine and not paying a single cent to Russian, right?

I have no account that how much being paid to Russians in this regard however, quoting from latest news report... Link as follows which was to describe Block-III.

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2019/03/12/pakistan-jf-17-fighter-radar-chinese.html

I have even merged all threads which makes count to 7 pages till now discussing the same without any further outcome.

 

[Beast]

I have no account that how much being paid to Russians in this regard however, quoting from latest news report... Link as follows which was to describe Block-III.

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2019/03/12/pakistan-jf-17-fighter-radar-chinese.html

The news of RE RD-33/93 engine is coincidence with successful completion of new generation of WS-19 engine which can be used on newer blk of JF-17 and FC-31 project. It will be a new engine with new design and IP. Therefore future JF-17 very possibility will be equipped with WS-19 engine. Thrust estimated to be more than 10000kg max.

 

[Pakistani Aircraft]

I seriously doubt so. Actually, Russia has very little incentive to sell more engine to support JF-17 project that start to eat into their share of export. Myanmar AF , a traditional customer of Russian airforce product with their Mig-29 buys JF-17. Selling RD-33/93 engine is just like smacking its own foot for Russian.

"As of 2010, with the FC-1 in direct competition with the MiG-29 in the international market, Russian aircraft manufacturers have raised concerns regarding the re-export of the FC-1's RD-93 engines. The FC-1 is competing against the MiG-29 in an Egyptian tender for 32 fighter aircraft. Mikhail Pogosyan, head of the MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus, has recommended to the Russian defence export agency Rosoboronexport that sales of RD-93 engines to China be blocked to prevent the JF-17 from competing with the MiG-29 on the international market."

http://www.machtres.com/lang1/fc1.html

This article raised some interesting timeline for RD-33/93 engine.

"Russia signed an agreement in August 2007 for re-export 150 RD-93 engines from China to Pakistan for the JF-17 fighter jet. Prior to the 2008 International Defence Exhibition and Seminar in Pakistan, news emerged that the PAF was not fully satisfied with the RD-93 turbofan engine and it would only power the first batch of 50 aircraft. "

Then we see subsequently in 2010, suddenly a big U-turn from French

"In April 2010, the deal was reportedly suspended after 18 months of negotiations. Reports cited French concerns in regards to Pakistan's financial situation, the protection of sensitive French technology and lobbying by the Indian government, who operate large numbers of French-origin fighters. France wanted the PAF to purchase a number of French-built Mirage 2000-9 fighters from the United Arab Emirates Air Force, a sale which would be made unnecessary if the JF-17 upgraded with French systems. However in July 2010 these reports were stated to be false by the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, "I have had discussions with French Government officials who have assured me that this is not the position of their government." Suleman also speculated that: "someone was trying to cause mischief – to put pressure on France not to supply the avionics we want."

Suddenly, the French avionic is not needed and so called possible engine from French is also shifted. 2010 is the year where Chinese WS-13 started initial batch equipped of JF-17.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/military/20101116161360534/