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JF-17 test flight with ws-13 "taisan" engine.

@The Eagle
Probably China/Pakistan selling Myanmar JF-17 with WS-13 engines since exporting JF-17 with Russian made engine need re-export approval from Russia.

China has purchased near 400 RD-93 from Russia for Pakistan plus an option of 350 more which suggests Russia already given permission to export JF-17 with Russian engine.

I am really confused.
 
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The news of RE RD-33/93 engine is coincidence with successful completion of new generation of WS-19 engine which can be used on newer blk of JF-17 and FC-31 project. It will be a new engine with new design and IP. Therefore future JF-17 very possibility will be equipped with WS-19 engine. Thrust estimated to be more than 10000kg max.

I can agree on this as had discussion with @LKJ86 as well reference to possible Chinese Engine for JF-17 Block-III. Yes WS-19 can be favourite however, can't confirm as the same engine will take couple of more years before final validation & installation through serial production. However, I haven't had any reference/evidence that current JF-17 fleet is powered with WS-13 hence, couple of my opinions as above.

@The Eagle
Probably China/Pakistan selling Myanmar JF-17 with WS-13 engines since exporting JF-17 with Russian made engine need re-export approval from Russia.

China has purchased near 400 RD-93 from Russia for Pakistan plus an option of 350 more which suggests Russia already given permission to export JF-17 with Russian engine.

I am really confused.

Either much has been kept away from Public Domain or there is very less to support such argument of WS-13 even installed on Ruby FC-1/JF-17 for Myanmar. However, RD-93 engine is the power plant seen on all the fleet ATM. I will be really surprised to find such huge induction/installation & none even noticed.
 
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You do not understand. China has a replacement. Even Russian dont sell RD-93 engine to China, JF-17 will still continue. Russian is forced to sell. If Russian dont sell, it hurts their wallet and completed nothing to stop China..

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/peru-cancels-the-purchase-of-chinese-tanks-mbt-2000.55230/

China forced to stop sales of MBT-2000 tank to Peru due to embargo of engine by Ukraine despite Ukraine being a closed country with China. Sales is sales, they will not allow export of component to harm their own sales.
 
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According to this article, the first trial of JF-17 powered by WS-13 was in 2010, so early batch JF-17 must have installed Russian engines, the JF-17 manufactured after 2010 has the condition to install China made WS-13. In other words, even if Russia stop exporting RD-93 to Pakistan, China can still deliver WS-13 to Pakistan to support the product of JF-17, since WS-13 is basically a clone of RD-93, whether or not Pakistan install WS-13 on JF-17, the article didn't mention it.
 
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I seriously doubt so. Actually, Russia has very little incentive to sell more engine to support JF-17 project that start to eat into their share of export. Myanmar AF , a traditional customer of Russian airforce product with their Mig-29 buys JF-17. Selling RD-33/93 engine is just like smacking its own foot for Russian.

"As of 2010, with the FC-1 in direct competition with the MiG-29 in the international market, Russian aircraft manufacturers have raised concerns regarding the re-export of the FC-1's RD-93 engines. The FC-1 is competing against the MiG-29 in an Egyptian tender for 32 fighter aircraft. Mikhail Pogosyan, head of the MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus, has recommended to the Russian defence export agency Rosoboronexport that sales of RD-93 engines to China be blocked to prevent the JF-17 from competing with the MiG-29 on the international market."

http://www.machtres.com/lang1/fc1.html

This article raised some interesting timeline for RD-33/93 engine.

"Russia signed an agreement in August 2007 for re-export 150 RD-93 engines from China to Pakistan for the JF-17 fighter jet. Prior to the 2008 International Defence Exhibition and Seminar in Pakistan, news emerged that the PAF was not fully satisfied with the RD-93 turbofan engine and it would only power the first batch of 50 aircraft. "

Then we see subsequently in 2010, suddenly a big U-turn from French

"In April 2010, the deal was reportedly suspended after 18 months of negotiations. Reports cited French concerns in regards to Pakistan's financial situation, the protection of sensitive French technology and lobbying by the Indian government, who operate large numbers of French-origin fighters. France wanted the PAF to purchase a number of French-built Mirage 2000-9 fighters from the United Arab Emirates Air Force, a sale which would be made unnecessary if the JF-17 upgraded with French systems. However in July 2010 these reports were stated to be false by the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, "I have had discussions with French Government officials who have assured me that this is not the position of their government." Suleman also speculated that: "someone was trying to cause mischief – to put pressure on France not to supply the avionics we want."

Suddenly, the French avionic is not needed and so called possible engine from French is also shifted. 2010 is the year where Chinese WS-13 started initial batch equipped of JF-17.



Come on, you are not going to tell around the world , we RE the whole RD-33 engine and not paying a single cent to Russian, right? There is nothing glorious about RE the whole Russian engine but we need to be self sufficient to ensure non disrupt of engine for JF-17 project. There will never be an official statement tell you about RE of JF-17 project engine.
I doubt that's an accurate account/narrative. If the French were 'forcing' the PAF to buy UAE Mirage 2000-9s in order to get the Thales/MBDA kit for the JF-17, then I am sure the PAF would have obliged right away. It would have settled the JF-17's electronics needs (esp. HMD/S & HOBS AAM) and augmented the PAF's strike capacity (via the M2K-9). The only factors to have killed both is (1) the lack of money in Pakistan and (2) the supply side closing (French electronics and the UAE's willingness to sell off its jets).
 
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IMG_3070.JPG
 
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I doubt that's an accurate account/narrative. If the French were 'forcing' the PAF to buy UAE Mirage 2000-9s in order to get the Thales/MBDA kit for the JF-17, then I am sure the PAF would have obliged right away. It would have settled the JF-17's electronics needs (esp. HMD/S & HOBS AAM) and augmented the PAF's strike capacity (via the M2K-9). The only factors to have killed both is (1) the lack of money in Pakistan and (2) the supply side closing (French electronics and the UAE's willingness to sell off its jets).
I think it was more of indian factor..billion of $$ of subs and aircraft deals were at stake..not anymore..French might open up now

When was this published ?
 
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OK. Simple question /... If first successful flight of JF-17 with WS-13 happened in 2010, why after 9 long years it is still using Russian power plant?

Are Chinese struggling to make it acceptable to PAF or it is PAF who want to stick with RD-93?
 
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OK. Simple question /... If first successful flight of JF-17 with WS-13 happened in 2010, why after 9 long years it is still using Russian power plant?

Are Chinese struggling to make it acceptable to PAF or it is PAF who want to stick with RD-93?
WS-13 is the same as RD-93 in appearance. You don't know how many FC-1s are using WS-13.
 
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IIRC AM Shahid Lateef in one of his recent interviews stated that China is able to produce the jf-17 engines locally. I don't remember if he specified license production of RD-93 or reverse engineering..?? Also I am not sure if it was meant only as an option or for actual use in production jf-17's.
 
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There is an interview of jf program and the investment made in rd engine by paf , rd are overhauled at 102 aed plus French engine parts pumps, hoses etc chances of paf switching are min. Other engine options mostly for foreign buyers

New chines engine has to be adopted by plaaf first before paf will even think about it
 
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RD-33 and RD-93 are the same thing just a different designation for different project.

Just like AL-31F and AL-31FN, both are the same engine with same spec but just a small change of different gearbox location. The thrust, lifespan and weight are the same..
I remember reading somewhere that the only difference between rd33 and rd 93 is positioning of gear box.
 
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102 AED the unique distinction of being the first major aircraft maintenance facility of the sub-continent. An overview to this journey of excellence spanning almost hundred years is given below.

1921-Aircraft Maintenance Depot (Walton Road Lahore)
1922-Aircraft Maintenance Depot (Drigh Road, Karachi)
1924-Royal Maintenance Depot
1942-No.1 Maintenance Unit
1942-No.102 Aircraft Depot
1950-No.102 Maintenance Unit
1988-No.102 Air Maintenance Unit
1992-No.102 Air Engineering Depot
1996-Overhaul of WP-7 Series Engine
2012-Construction Of The Universal Test Bed
2017-Phase-I Overhaul of RD-93 Engine.
 
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