JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[razgriz19]

I still did not have my answer how is it better than F16? If it was so good then why Pakistan was looking to add more F16 even after having JF17? Hope someone having knowledge of planes can help me understand. Maybe DBC or Gambit.

it sure is a bit better than the f-16s we have right now. blk 15.

jft has a better radar....maybe because it can fire BVR(some say cant blah blah)
second- its as manueverable as f-16
third- more advanced cockpit! i mean glass cockpit!! if u compare blk 15 cockpit to thunder's cockpit then u'll see wat i mean

BUT f-16 has its own PLUS sides, yes even blk 15 has its plus!
can carry more weapons, longer range, reliable...

this is all i can think of...
some senior members might shed more light on both a/c capabilities

 

[Donatello]

I still did not have my answer how is it better than F16? If it was so good then why Pakistan was looking to add more F16 even after having JF17? Hope someone having knowledge of planes can help me understand. Maybe DBC or Gambit.

JF-17 orders with PAF total 250 confirmed and possibly upto 300.
F-16s are coming free with USA money and half of that is upgrades to current fleet. Pakistan is not looking at more than 80 f-16s in near future.


I hope you did learn that 80 is less than 250, in numbers.



Please don't post such questions again and again.

 

[razgriz19]

JF-17 orders with PAF total 250 confirmed and possibly upto 300.
F-16s are coming free with USA money and half of that is upgrades to current fleet. Pakistan is not looking at more than 80 f-16s in near future.


I hope you did learn that 80 is less than 250, in numbers.



Please don't post such questions again and again.

a friendly advice, numbers doesn't show capability!!!
j-10 is more capable than thunder but we are still getting them in small numbers!

 

[muse]

the question that needs to be asked to ourselves are -- Will a nation prefer to buy a souped up JF17 ( a new fighter) or will nation buy Mig 29's which has years of operational service ?

Well, let the numbers speak for themselves -

How can JF17 be so cheap ?

How cheap is "so cheap"? You have numbers?

 

[anathema]

Well, let the numbers speak for themselves -

Lets see.

How cheap is "so cheap"? You have numbers?

No official ones -- Sinodefence and pretty much other internation forums is in love with 17-20 million a pop for JF17 , 40-45 million for J10..i have mentioned it above.

 

[linkinpark]

Who ever says that JF-17 is better than F-16 needs their heads checked up. If JF-17 were that better why would PAF still buy F-16. Some people are very good at making bombastic claims without backing up with data.

 

[raazh]

@ IndianRabbit!

If SU30MKI of India is so superior .. why is India trying to procure 126 of other types including F16.

Simply put Air forces procure according to their requirements and objectives. 250 of F16 for Pakistan would be too expensive with no offset for local industry, plus not to discount the sanctions side effects. JF17 gives Pakistan a platform to work with and remain in its budget. Apart from that I believe its a wonderful commercial product with immense export potential. Only limiting factors it might face will be the political influence of US or Russia. Apart from that its a perfect plateform designed to complete its task effectively and efficiently.

 

[SpArK]

^^^^

I agree with u.. buying a different fighter always brings diversity inside a force.

New weapons, new platform, new vendor, new technologies, newer roles and most importantly new relationships.

Buying F-16s have made Pakistani pilots on par with US pilots in terms of skills for that aircraft with constant practises and various exercises world over.

So excuses like why u guys need both JF-17 and F-16 if one is superior over other is a lame one and Pakistan as like any force is doing the right thing.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I still did not have my answer how is it better than F16? If it was so good then why Pakistan was looking to add more F16 even after having JF17? Hope someone having knowledge of planes can help me understand. Maybe DBC or Gambit.

Who ever says that JF-17 is better than F-16 needs their heads checked up. If JF-17 were that better why would PAF still buy F-16. Some people are very good at making bombastic claims without backing up with data.

JF-17s have been compared with the PAF F-16 Blk 15s, the current F-16s minus the Blk 52s. No one has compared it with the latest Blk 52.

And PAF has ordered the Blk 52s and updating the older ones to that standard.

So, i hope the answer has been provided as what F-16s are compared with and which aren't and why has PAF gone for Blk 52s is that they are superior to JF-17s in avionics, weapon load, range etc etc.

The JF-17 is inferior to PAF Blk 15 in the weapon load, range and engine thrust categories.

Avionics wise, man-machine interface wise, maneuverability wise (in dog fights JF-17 has been beating the PAF current Blk 15s), JF-17 is superior.

It has better radar, more friendly-pilot load reducing interface, Data Link, BVR Capability, MAW systems compared to the Blk 15s.

So in these factors, JF-17 is superior to Blk 15s, but less capable when compared to Blk 52s.

Hope this is enough to make you guys understand how the comparison is being done.

 

[Hulk]

Well when people say JF17 is better than F16 without telling which F16 I will assume latest block 60. So please give version numbers as well.
About SU30 and MRCA I am not an expert neither that is topic of thread.

 

[INDIAISM]

i think guys it will b inapropriate to compare JF 17with MIG 29
REASONS

1)MIG 29 is a midium weight combat fighter {u can compare it with J10, F-16 or MIRAAGE 2000} and another hand JF17 is light weight fighter............i think it will b better to compare JF17 with GRIPPEN or LCA TEJAS........

2)it will tke time for JF 17 to get mature and on another hand MIG 29 is matured platform................

3)Their roles in the airforce-- on one hand Mig 29 is a Air superiority fighter and on another hand JF 17or LCA TEJAS r Point defense fighters

 

[razgriz19]

^^^agreed!

 

[dbc]

I still did not have my answer how is it better than F16? If it was so good then why Pakistan was looking to add more F16 even after having JF17? Hope someone having knowledge of planes can help me understand. Maybe DBC or Gambit.

I still did not have my answer how is it better than F16?

Is the JF-17 better than the F-16? May be, experienced F-5 aggressor pilots have consistently beaten F-16 pilots in a dogfight. The F-16's agility and superior turn rates have caused many less experienced pilots to become disoriented or worse loose consciousness while performing aggressive maneuvers in a fight.

Another astounding fact, before the Raptor arrived on the scene the F-18 was the most feared aircraft in US inventory. USAF pilots dreaded going up against the F-18 in WVR or BVR. While on paper the F-18 appears to be poorly endowed it has superb 'care free' handling characteristics. The F-18's flight-control computers, it's aerodynamic efficiency when combined with a engine that allows rapid unrestricted throttle across the full range of available power from idle to full after burner. While the F-16 or the MIG-29 can easily push the pilot over his or her physical limits; the F-18 intuitive handling allows the pilot to push the limits without the fear of loosing control.

So, I have this to say to my Indian friends and others who like to look at paper specifications and jump to conclusions. The JF-17 looks good, it may be better than the F-16 but I reserve judgement until I hear from an experienced JF-17 pilot especially one that converted from an F-16 to JF-17.

 

[Hulk]

Thanks DBC and Taimi.
Since I am civilian comparing a new plane to something world known was difficult to digest but I got your point.

 

[Peregrine]

It's really funny how the makers(the one's with the know-how) of these Russian Jets have acknowledged JF-17 as a worthy opponent to Russian Mig-29, but somehow, the indian members are having a hard time in accepting the shocking reality.