JF-17 and LCA development comparison

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan join the JF-17 when large part of it was done by China and China was about to abandon it. JF-17 is not a great aircraft either that's why its still looking for a buyers and Chinese themselves never inducted it.



Your comprehension is so weak, importing components and joint ventures are different thing. Infact design of JF-17 is rippoff of Russia's Mig-21 which Indians are about to abandon.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/220228-jf-17-lca-development-comparison-13.html
c the post 186's second video so u will have a better idea, also the share of us in this project is 58:42. 58 ours n 42 China.
Bro we know its basically based on mig 21 from china side of contribution in design but it is also based on f16A/B design from Pak side of contribution.Cant u see its wing design which gives it Maneuverability on per with f16 A/B which r most maneuverable in f16 family n mind u f16 is regarded as the best dog fight aircraft in the world because of its Maneuverability.Check the JFT information pool in this forum to learn more its in Pak Air force section.

Also sir yr aircraft is 28-29 years old when at that time Mirage III/V were on rise, so by looking at it its safe to assume that HAL had made an effort to copy a French Fighter in 75 or 80s when ever its desigh was conformed.

 

[sms]

What a rubbish info its all taken from PT01 but JFT's production model is based on PT04 not PT01.
Also abt specs c the video i posted Analysis Jf17 vs LCA in post # 185 its second video n also if u wish to learn more n truth then c all the videos of post # 185. U will get all yr answers.

are you being sarcastic?
bullshit piece of crap this chart is...

@sms

let me prove...

first off,IZMIR chart turkey contradicts most of stupid claims in above chart..

coming to useful load,

JF 17 has 4000+ KG which was showed in dubai press release...

for LCA you should read this...

same will help you for engine thrust claims

LCA needs new engine to be worthy of combat - Indian Express

G-LIMIT:-

according to the IOC standards tejas can pull 6 g's...and the angle of attack is 22 degree...
and son,the FOC has been post poned till 2015...

wait for block III production which is supposed to commence by all most the same time as LCA will be entering into service...

Sir I'm sorry to say what I've posted are the true facts. I know these are hard to swallow. Please take these with pinch of salt.

The manufacturer aka assembler of JF17 kit PAC Kamra do not think on your lines. My data is based on spec posted on Kamra website. Please note at any given day spec on manufacture's official site carries more weight than a random picture. I‘m sorry I've busted your bubble

Official website of PAC kamra- Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

screen shot of JF17 spec page ...

 

[INDIC]

LOL!
you made it alone...then why foreign assistance...???
infact you should think before you speak...


for design,
whats funny is that LCA's design is helped by dassault and its tailless delta configuration...and for your info this design is getting outdated now..since no jet iN production uses tailless delta config.
typhoons and rafales have canards to increase manuvrability..

as far as the design of jf 17 being based on MIG-21 goes,
this does not change the fact that JF 17 performs well today in skies( on par with F-16 early models like many of think tanks and senior members have discussed it )
while LCA blah blah...6g's is limit and 22 degree of AoA...

You guys are assuming that constructing aircrafts from components is simply assembling it.

LCA has better performance than JF-17 but the fact remains Pakistan defence budget is less than 6 billion compared to 42 billion of India. So unlike India, Pakistan has to compromised with aircraft performance, the price tag of JF-17 explains all that.

 

[sancho]

Sigh.. now I've realized that our and Western media is very biased. I'm done with brainwashing stories. I'll not not buy their stories and throwing the following table in garbage bin..in favor of supa dupa JF17

Didn't you corrected the comparison? There are still many mistakes, starting from emptyweights, useful loads, engine thrust since Gripen don't use the GE 404, TWRs...

 

[INDIC]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/220228-jf-17-lca-development-comparison-13.html
c the post 186's second video so u will have a better idea, also the share of us in this project is 58:42. 58 ours n 42 China.
Bro we know its basically based on mig 21 from china side of contribution in design but it is also based on f16A/B design from Pak side of contribution.Cant u see its wing design which gives it Maneuverability on per with f16 A/B which r most maneuverable in f16 family n mind u f16 is regarded as the best dog fight aircraft in the world because of its Maneuverability.Check the JFT information pool in this forum to learn more its in Pak Air force section.

Also sir yr aircraft is 28-29 years old when at that time Mirage III/V were on rise, so by looking at it its safe to assume that HAL had made an effort to copy a French Fighter in 75 or 80s when ever its desigh was conformed.

On youtube I saw a video of Pakistan trying to develop an indigenous helicopter without Chinese help, I got speechless after watching the video.

 

[Secur]

The manufacturer aka assembler of JF17 kit PAC Kamra do not think on your lines. My data is based on spec posted on Kamra website. Please note at any given day spec on manufacture's official site carries more weight than a random picture. I‘m sorry I've busted your bubble

Sorry to burst your bubble but the PAC's site isn't updated regularly , it is still posting old specifications ... What was shown in Turkey was the new data for the fighter ... Got it now ?

 

[mylovepakistan]

Similarly, IAF test pilots that have flown LCA are praising it's maneuverability, the fly by wire system, the MMI and so on, but would you expect something else from pilots that were used to use 3 to 3+ gen single role fighters no matter in which air force? Most likely not, that's why these kind of statements won't help you to compare both fighters witheach other.

The rest is indeed, not reliable, because the author mainly uses speculated figures, weapons or capabilities (China has developed JXX, that's why Chinese avionics in JF 17 must be good ), he even gets the radar ranges wrong, which both are for 5m2 targets, while the maximum detection range of bigger targets is between 200 and 300Km for both radars, just like for any comparable radar of that generation. Not to forget that he obviously has chosen the fields where JF 17 has some advantage (ceilling), while ignoring others. No mention of RCS, which is important for BVR combats, no mention of dry TWR, no mention of operational costs (2 x RD93 in the life of 1 x GE 404 for example)...

OK...but talking as of now...
as per IOC standards tejas can pull 6g's..
does it make it better than 8.5 G's of jf 17?

well,he does not clearly claims avionics of jf 17 to be better than LCA...he just responds to indian claims that israeli avionics are advanced compared to chinese..

for radar ranges...
he is taking 5m2 as standard to compare..
and he is correct...otherwise please prove it wrong..

for RCS:-

prove it LCA has got some lower RCS compared to JF 17...?
as far as i know both of jets have got almost similar RCS in clean config.

dry TWR:-
it all depends on the circumstances and the type of mission...

operational cost of engines:-
this does not affect jf 17's performance IN AIR against LCA...

 

[mylovepakistan]

You guys are assuming that constructing aircrafts from components is simply assembling it.

LCA has better performance than JF-17 but the fact remains Pakistan defence budget is less than 6 billion compared to 42 billion of India. So unlike India, Pakistan has to compromised with aircraft performance, the price tag of JF-17 explains all that.

believe me you are not worth replying for you are behaving like a KID,

kindly dont respond to my posts

 

[Secur]

You guys are assuming that constructing aircrafts from components is simply assembling it.

Where do you see the ' indigenous ' part in that IAF's officers revelation of your ? ...If you are importing almost all the major parts of an aircraft from other countries , how credible does your indigenousness claim remains ?

P.S If you still have comprehension problems , then do not discuss thing which you simply cant understand ...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

hole crap @ mylovepakistan and Umair Nawaz u dimwits read the thread title , its not JF-17 and LCA performance rather its JF-17 and LCA development , now if you any credible source which provides valid proof to Pakistani contribution to JF-17 please post or else shut ur trap holes ,

@ Umair Nawaz really youtube video ..? that's the best you can come up with ..?

dude c thats in that video rather then further D- grade yrself here. Also c who has posted the videos its abdul Barijan the same guy who had posted loot of PAK's forces info to this forum he always have credible info like Najam Khan n P.Shamim Sahab in this forum, also he tells abt sources too from where he got that info.
If u have a question then ask us or if u know better then tell us along with the credible source n proof us wrong.Also c the post 186's second video it is about evolution of JFT project.

If u have a better info backed by strong sources then we will accept yr claims if not then accept ours atleast!!!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

On youtube I saw a video of Pakistan trying to develop an indigenous helicopter without Chinese help, I got speechless after watching the video.

dude c thats in that video rather then further D- grade yrself here. Also c who has posted the videos its Abdul Barijan the same guy who had posted loot of PAK's forces info to this forum he always have credible info like Najam Khan n P.Shamim Sahab in this forum, also he tells abt sources too from where he got that info.
If u have a question then ask us or if u know better then tell us along with the credible source n proof us wrong.
If u have a better info backed by strong sources then we will accept yr claims if not then accept ours atleast!!!

 

[mylovepakistan]

Sir I'm sorry to say what I've posted are the true facts. I know these are hard to swallow. Please take these with pinch of salt.

The manufacturer aka assembler of JF17 kit PAC Kamra do not think on your lines. My data is based on spec posted on Kamra website. Please note at any given day spec on manufacture's official site carries more weight than a random picture. I‘m sorry I've busted your bubble

Official website of PAC kamra- Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

screen shot of JF17 spec page ...

PAC webiste has not been updated since long..
what makes you adamant,after the official chart shown in IZMIR..

oh wait..watch this...carefully...this sums up...

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7tuiaeS_kc[/video]

 

[sms]

^^^ Thanks for posting video. Ophs I'm traveling to China and do cannot see Youtube. I'll check it once back to India next wk and post my comments,

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Sir I'm sorry to say what I've posted are the true facts. I know these are hard to swallow. Please take these with pinch of salt.

The manufacturer aka assembler of JF17 kit PAC Kamra do not think on your lines. My data is based on spec posted on Kamra website. Please note at any given day spec on manufacture's official site carries more weight than a random picture. I‘m sorry I've busted your bubble

Official website of PAC kamra- Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

screen shot of JF17 spec page ...

like i told u those r old info hey dont get updated time to time.Also specs which r mentioned in the paper r kept always different in PAf for not letting others know abt full capability of our arsenal n in airshows we basically sent them to b marketing reasons also we show them the performance of aircraft by flying them.
So in there u cant say that the info there is not right as in ''official sites''.


Also u claimed that ''The manufacturer aka assembler of JF17 kit PAC Kamra do not think on your lines''.But u forgot to mention the first line in the same page just above Specs which is ''Production''headline n the line is
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) holds the exclusive rights of 58% of JF-17 airframe co-production work.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Before I go Ninja on my exams, lemme just make a brief comment on the subject as I usually am the one with crazya$$ videos all over youtube...After uploading and researching the topic multiple times I have concluded that

"JF-17 and LCA Tejas cannot be compared with each other currently"

Lemme just briefly sum it up,

1- Under current circumstances, LCA tejas is still in the "product development stage" with confusion about its FOC dates while JF-17 has now moved on to the "product growth stage" with 40+ already in service with the PAF.

2.JF-17 is exactly as per requirement of its primary customer (PAF) and PAF in general seems very happy with it, infact it shocked quite a few after the info about unexpected modernization of the product was gradually released.On the other hand IAF seems to rely more on the Bisons even though continuously faced by public and media criticism calling the fighter a "flying coffin". The long development coupled by innumerable tests dictate the fact that IAF is not really satisfied by the performance of the platform, thats why talks of MK-II are surfacing even before the MK-I receives FOC by 2014, while thee naval version is supposed to get IOC by that time frame. (again as per plan)

Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

LCA Navy - IDP Sentinel

3.JF-17 is now in process of adding further claws, new weapons integration (SD-10B,CM400 AKG) and a new block around the corner with upgrades in some sensors and EW as well as IFR etc to add further punch to the already potent aircraft.LCA on the other hand is still in testing, with its given arms and still officially has 2 more years to come in to IAF's service (in 2014).

4. If your talking performance, then most of us know the over weight issue of the LCA, the IOC standards of 6Gs and a restricted AOA and much more, while JF-17 has topped the bench mark which was set for it, i.e F-16 A in terms of WVR.