Islamic State: What do young British Muslims think about the Caliphate? BBC News

[EasyNow]

Well its about how much of the brain you actually use to think....When you have no knowledge like in the olden days if one told you earth was flat everyone nodded if one said no its round you hang the person....



Well there is no lie in CIA creating all those....In fact many of the American leadership admits to helping build this crap to counter USSR...back then America didnt think for long term all they did was think of the immediate solution!

As for media propaganda yes I agree there is injustice in the media when it comes to portraying Islam! Again no lie there....


However when you claim pious Muslims have become monsters it shows your limited knowledge to Islam....If they were pious they wouldnt become monsters...No one sheds their piousness in a day! Hence they were rotten to begin with ...If you can preach killing people you are not pious at all!

Well I am not blaming others or anyone else but their brought up, their lack of thinking...basically I am blaming they themselves! After you reach the age of baligh your mom is not accountable for your sins coz the brain has developed enough to distinguish right from wrong...as in the Western world the teenager says its my life and moves out of the house....Islam tells the same ...its their life they will be answerable!

I am not going to be apologetic about some bastards who chose the wrong way based on lack of understanding or even basic thinking (logical thinking was flushed down within seconds because of the failure to activate the thinking region in the brain)



These are the result of lack of discipline of children....and also overprotection from god knows what fear of the 1860s when racism was on the high now it isnt and also lack of integration into the locals


I would say both! Why not address the perpetrator and then come to the victim!

Here is a story for you to read:


= "What Color Was The Dog?" =

Once there was a community of Muslims who were small in number yet large in iman and strong in action. So much so that, the kufaar [non-believers] could not defeat them in battle even though they had the Muslims out numbered.

One day a young man from the kufaar pretended to enter into Islam and he went to the big sheik [learned man] in one part of the city and listened to his teaching of the Quran. The subject happened to be on the chapter of the Quran called Al Kahaf (the Cave, #18].

When the sheik completed his talk he offered a chance for the brothers present to ask some questions. When it came the turn of the kafar, he asked the sheik the question:

“Sir, in the story of the ‘sleepers’ in the cave, there is mention of a dog. And I was wondering if I might inquire as to what color the dog might have been? I hope you don’t mind my asking, especially if it is something that maybe you don’t know the answer to.”

Immediately the sheik says to the young man, “That’s no problem at all, everyone should know that the dog was YELLOW.”
The young man said, “Are you sure? I mean, could it have been another color?”
“No.” replied the old sheik, “It was definitely YELLOW.” Once again the young man thanked him and when on his way.
The next night the young kafr man went to the other side of town and sat in another gathering of knowledge and they too were discussing different things about verses in the Quran.
So when it came time for the teacher to give each person attending, the opportunity to ask a question, the kafr man raised his hand and then asked the question, “In the chapter about the “Cave”, the sleepers are mentioned in different numbers but each time there is a reference to their dog as being counted along with them. Now I was wondering whether or not anyone of knowledge has ever made any reference to what the color the dog might have been?”
The sheik immediately said, “Yes! The dog in this story in the Quran was BLACK.”
The young kafar man was pleased and continued, “Sir, are you quite certain that the color of the dog mentioned in the story was BLACK?”
“Young man,” he quickly replied, “I’ll stake my reputation on that as a fact.”
“Thank you, sir.” Said the young man.
The next night the kafar posing as a Muslim went back to the first sheik and then when it came time for the questions and answers he raised his hand and asked, “Sheik, may Allah reward you for all your effort and knowledge and for sharing it with us. Could you maybe remind me about the answer to the question the other night about the color of the dog in the cave in Surah Al-Kahaf?” (Holy Quran: Chapter 18).
The sheik said, “There is no doubt whatsoever amongst the great scholars of Islam on this question. The dog was YELLOW. And anyone who says other than this has no knowledge.”
With that the young man spoke up again and said, “Sir, what would you say if someone else said that he would stake his reputation of being a scholar in Islam on the fact that the dog is not yellow, but rather that the dog is most certainly BLACK?”
The sheik quickly replied, “Then his reputation is not that of a scholar but one of a fool.”
Now the next time the kafr man went to the sheik that was upholding the idea of the dog being BLACK, he told the sheik that the sheik on the other side of town was calling him names and saying that he had no knowledge of Islam and that for sure that the dog was YELLOW.
The old sheik became angry and shouted, “You tell him, that I said he is the one without knowledge. I’m the one who graduated from the greatest of schools of Islam, while he is but a fool.”
The plan was working. Before long the community was divided into two groups. Each group was claiming that their sheik was the one with the correct answer. Fighting broke out in the streets and the Muslims began attacking each other all over the city. Everyone became involved to the extent that there was not a single person who was excluded from this terrible situation. Screaming, shouting, hitting and fighting were everywhere.

And then it happened. The kafr went back out to his people and told them, “Let us go to fight them now. You will now find them most easy to defeat.”

And that is exactly what they did.


Which Groups

Behan, we are drowning and you are describing the water! Yes these people are mislead, they are brainwashed, they don't understand Islam.. 100% true but they call themselves Muslim just like you and me. They are pious because they gave up everything for Islam, their jobs, their lives, their families. They fulfill every pillar of Islam but they became monsters - saying they aren't Muslims means you washing your hands of them. I am saying they are from our societies so you can't shirk responsibility - so suggest solutions not just blame.

I would like an end to this from the root and you are trying to figure out temporary solutions!

Look carefully, its you who is suggesting temporary solutions. There will always be enemies of Islam, we have to make sure we are not mislead. You want to tackle america but not deal with your local victims?!

 

[Abingdonboy]

We can do that ourselves. We don't need US help for that. There is a great deal of history, social dynamics and other complex issues that the UK is familiar with, that the US is not.

It is a categoric fact that the US provides extensive intelligence to the UK government and security services. The US has unparalleled reach and data gathering capabilities that the UK benefits from enormously.

 

[Dubious]

. They are pious because they gave up everything for Islam, their jobs, their lives, their families. They fulfill every pillar of Islam but they became monsters

How can you say they are pious? No one can judge another but ALLAH....I am calling them monsters and washing my hands coz ALLAH said in the Quran if you kill 1 man it is as though you have killed the whole of mankind....now how is that pious?

saying they aren't Muslims means you washing your hands of them. I am saying they are from our societies so you can't shirk responsibility - so suggest solutions not just blame.

I am only saying the truth even if it is bitter sweet to swallow!

They are not Muslims if they are causing fitnah

they are not Muslims if they are killing not for justice nor for revenge of a loss relative (which again is subjected to a series of conditions)

they are not Muslims if they have failed the basic principals which is not causing FITNAH

Hence washing my hands from them just shows how much I understand what they are...Why do you want to be dragged own with monsters? Will ALLAH ask you about their deeds? NO HE wont! Everyone is answerable to their own doings!

All we need to do is tell people what Islam is since none of what they did is of any part of Islam why must we worry and all?

When did Islam say go to another land and start killing gruesomely? when did it say be proud of it and pose with the dead? In fact even the normal man rejected it when American soldier pictures were shown posing with the dead

We were again disgusted when Israeli soldiers were counting how many Palestinians they killed...But we have to somehow associate ourselves with similar monsters just coz they are calling themselves Muslims?

If they did that and call themselves Israelis would the Israelis feel insecure? Nope they will just say they are not Israelis ...Like how we say terrorists are not of a nation they are just some people who have turned bad....

Sorry I am not answerable to every shit happening in the name of Islam all I can do is show what ISLAM is ...anyone with even 1 functional neuron will be able to differentiate ISLAM AND CRAP GOING ON UNDER ITS NAME!

 

[Zarvan]

The Pakistani guy talks the most sense. The Indian Muslim girl is good as well, but didn't quite have the knowledge to debate. The Bengali guys were just .

On a side note Zahra Abdeali is fit (hijab girl on far right end) and she would be welcomed as my second wife.



Oi bhai, the Pakistani guy did a great job. Five of the others were good, two were just off. Not a bad percentage.

I couldn't watch the video so please tell what was the opinion off each member

 

[Dubious]

Look carefully, its you who is suggesting temporary solutions. There will always be enemies of Islam, we have to make sure we are not mislead. You want to tackle america but not deal with your local victims?!

lolz!! I never said tackle America....And I didnt say dont deal with them...All I DID say was not to call them Muslims...even my NON MUSLIM friends know they are not Muslims it is just SOME MUSLIMS who are still confused about it! I am also saying make sure we are not misled! How do you make sure of that?

Do you mean to say if one says the shahadah and then kills in front of you for no reason washes up prays and keeps fast the next day and then kills the day after and so on and justifies it as being under Islam is a Muslim? How?

 

[EasyNow]

You are being too simplistic. We can't just say 'they are not Muslims' and then turn our cheek, because they don't only influence the world outlook on Islam, they also influence our own youngsters.

I fear the day your or my own little brother will come to us and proudly defend ISIS or spew hatred about other religions. Even the TTP didn't appear out of nowhere - it was exactly a result of this wash our hands attitude that this outlook had a chance to grow and become so dangerous.

 

[dray]

Thank You for the link of that clown's twitter account. He will regret he ever came across me.

This one is better!!

Anjem Choudary (anjemchoudary) on Twitter

 

[Yahoooooo!]

Are these mainstream views among young muslims in Britain? Or are we taking a few extreme views and then we outsiders perceive them to be mainstream?

I saw the extreme views among who supported the Caliphate ideology to be quite extreme, however people who should have been at the opposite end seemed very muted or polite. The closest any person who came to criticizing the whole basis for Caliphate notion was the Ahmadi Muslim guy, who said that "Islam should be about spirituality", which seemed to be another way of saying, "Religion is a private matter between God and an individual". Any community/society, where you can't criticize anything without extreme fear of hurting sentiments (whether that's about criticizing God,our ideology(communism or capitalism) or about criticizing leaders or government) will be a bad place to live in.[Britain should not be like that, but seems its in the Muslim community in Britain that might be the case] . If there is no vigorous open discussion of all kinds of thoughts how will people from different viewpoints learn from each other?

Mina and the other guy 2nd from left was also vigorous in saying that there are big differences among different sects/opinions of Muslims so the Caliphate will not form.

 

[EasyNow]

The Pakistani youth seem to be quite level headed and know about the evils of ISIS. But Bangladeshis seems to be supporters of ISIS. Wonder what is the reason for this

British Bangladeshi's seem to be going through a crisis of identity phase that has drawn many youths towards Islam for comfort. Unfortunately, the leaders of Bangladeshi Islamic movements in London are mostly ex-jamaatis who fled BD after independence and they have used this opportunity to peddle a vindictive and evil ideology to the vulnerable groups.

Bangladeshi's are traditionally very chilled out, social people. Ironically, the financial power of these new zealots in the West is the major reason for the change of attitudes towards Islam in BD itself. There is a joke in Dhaka that Jamaat's strongest constituency is the one in London.

Pakistani's, on the other hand seem to have gotten over that phase and the community seems to have reigned in the extremism.. Ours i'm afraid is still in the romantic phase.

PS the ex-hindu guy is not Bangladeshi he is Indian i believe.

 

[EasyNow]

I would blame economic deprivity.. pakistanis are generally better off here also confident lot... bangladeshis (especially sylhotis) are wannabe arabs, with very low self esteem..
also pakistanis generally try to mix with other people, silhotis are relatively insulated.

My friend don't get it twisted, Sylheti's don't have low self-esteem - we are amongst the ancient upper class of BD. Yes we are very private and you can call us insular, but every bit of progress by BD's in the UK (and for many South Asians in general) is from start to finish the effort of Sylhetis. Tower Hamlets and Brick Lane are just 2 examples of areas abandoned by others and developed by local Sylhetis. The only British MP of BD descent is a Sylheti. The largest mosque in Europe was established by Sylhetis.

The zamindar culture in Sylhet meant we always focussed more on honour and Iman rather than cheap cleverness - and that side of our character has become our weakness today.

You are right that Sylheti's are the majority in London and many have really taken the mullahs' bait. But trust me wannabe Arabs we are not.

 

[Jaggu]

British Bangladeshi's seem to be going through a crisis of identity phase that has drawn many youths towards Islam for comfort. Unfortunately, the leaders of Bangladeshi Islamic movements in London are mostly ex-jamaatis who fled BD after independence and they have used this opportunity to peddle a vindictive and evil ideology to the vulnerable groups.

Bangladeshi's are traditionally very chilled out, social people. Ironically, the financial power of these new zealots in the West is the major reason for the change of attitudes towards Islam in BD itself. There is a joke in Dhaka that Jamaat's strongest constituency is the one in London.

Pakistani's, on the other hand seem to have gotten over that phase and the community seems to have reigned in the extremism.. Ours i'm afraid is still in the romantic phase.

PS the ex-hindu guy is not Bangladeshi he is Indian i believe.

Thanks brother for the explanation. Now I understand this issue more clearly.

 

[liontk]

Well its about how much of the brain you actually use to think....When you have no knowledge like in the olden days if one told you earth was flat everyone nodded if one said no its round you hang the person....



Well there is no lie in CIA creating all those....In fact many of the American leadership admits to helping build this crap to counter USSR...back then America didnt think for long term all they did was think of the immediate solution!

As for media propaganda yes I agree there is injustice in the media when it comes to portraying Islam! Again no lie there....


However when you claim pious Muslims have become monsters it shows your limited knowledge to Islam....If they were pious they wouldnt become monsters...No one sheds their piousness in a day! Hence they were rotten to begin with ...If you can preach killing people you are not pious at all!

Well I am not blaming others or anyone else but their brought up, their lack of thinking...basically I am blaming they themselves! After you reach the age of baligh your mom is not accountable for your sins coz the brain has developed enough to distinguish right from wrong...as in the Western world the teenager says its my life and moves out of the house....Islam tells the same ...its their life they will be answerable!

I am not going to be apologetic about some bastards who chose the wrong way based on lack of understanding or even basic thinking (logical thinking was flushed down within seconds because of the failure to activate the thinking region in the brain)



These are the result of lack of discipline of children....and also overprotection from god knows what fear of the 1860s when racism was on the high now it isnt and also lack of integration into the locals


I would say both! Why not address the perpetrator and then come to the victim!

Here is a story for you to read:


= "What Color Was The Dog?" =

Once there was a community of Muslims who were small in number yet large in iman and strong in action. So much so that, the kufaar [non-believers] could not defeat them in battle even though they had the Muslims out numbered.

One day a young man from the kufaar pretended to enter into Islam and he went to the big sheik [learned man] in one part of the city and listened to his teaching of the Quran. The subject happened to be on the chapter of the Quran called Al Kahaf (the Cave, #18].

When the sheik completed his talk he offered a chance for the brothers present to ask some questions. When it came the turn of the kafar, he asked the sheik the question:

“Sir, in the story of the ‘sleepers’ in the cave, there is mention of a dog. And I was wondering if I might inquire as to what color the dog might have been? I hope you don’t mind my asking, especially if it is something that maybe you don’t know the answer to.”

Immediately the sheik says to the young man, “That’s no problem at all, everyone should know that the dog was YELLOW.”
The young man said, “Are you sure? I mean, could it have been another color?”
“No.” replied the old sheik, “It was definitely YELLOW.” Once again the young man thanked him and when on his way.
The next night the young kafr man went to the other side of town and sat in another gathering of knowledge and they too were discussing different things about verses in the Quran.
So when it came time for the teacher to give each person attending, the opportunity to ask a question, the kafr man raised his hand and then asked the question, “In the chapter about the “Cave”, the sleepers are mentioned in different numbers but each time there is a reference to their dog as being counted along with them. Now I was wondering whether or not anyone of knowledge has ever made any reference to what the color the dog might have been?”
The sheik immediately said, “Yes! The dog in this story in the Quran was BLACK.”
The young kafar man was pleased and continued, “Sir, are you quite certain that the color of the dog mentioned in the story was BLACK?”
“Young man,” he quickly replied, “I’ll stake my reputation on that as a fact.”
“Thank you, sir.” Said the young man.
The next night the kafar posing as a Muslim went back to the first sheik and then when it came time for the questions and answers he raised his hand and asked, “Sheik, may Allah reward you for all your effort and knowledge and for sharing it with us. Could you maybe remind me about the answer to the question the other night about the color of the dog in the cave in Surah Al-Kahaf?” (Holy Quran: Chapter 18).
The sheik said, “There is no doubt whatsoever amongst the great scholars of Islam on this question. The dog was YELLOW. And anyone who says other than this has no knowledge.”
With that the young man spoke up again and said, “Sir, what would you say if someone else said that he would stake his reputation of being a scholar in Islam on the fact that the dog is not yellow, but rather that the dog is most certainly BLACK?”
The sheik quickly replied, “Then his reputation is not that of a scholar but one of a fool.”
Now the next time the kafr man went to the sheik that was upholding the idea of the dog being BLACK, he told the sheik that the sheik on the other side of town was calling him names and saying that he had no knowledge of Islam and that for sure that the dog was YELLOW.
The old sheik became angry and shouted, “You tell him, that I said he is the one without knowledge. I’m the one who graduated from the greatest of schools of Islam, while he is but a fool.”
The plan was working. Before long the community was divided into two groups. Each group was claiming that their sheik was the one with the correct answer. Fighting broke out in the streets and the Muslims began attacking each other all over the city. Everyone became involved to the extent that there was not a single person who was excluded from this terrible situation. Screaming, shouting, hitting and fighting were everywhere.

And then it happened. The kafr went back out to his people and told them, “Let us go to fight them now. You will now find them most easy to defeat.”

And that is exactly what they did.

Which Groups

If the perpetrator is not addressed we are not getting anywhere by not answering who the hell are these PIOUS THAN THOU under the mask of Muslims?

I would like an end to this from the root and you are trying to figure out temporary solutions!

I see so lets blame west for the problem

Well its about how much of the brain you actually use to think....When you have no knowledge like in the olden days if one told you earth was flat everyone nodded if one said no its round you hang the person....



Well there is no lie in CIA creating all those....In fact many of the American leadership admits to helping build this crap to counter USSR...back then America didnt think for long term all they did was think of the immediate solution!

As for media propaganda yes I agree there is injustice in the media when it comes to portraying Islam! Again no lie there....


However when you claim pious Muslims have become monsters it shows your limited knowledge to Islam....If they were pious they wouldnt become monsters...No one sheds their piousness in a day! Hence they were rotten to begin with ...If you can preach killing people you are not pious at all!

Well I am not blaming others or anyone else but their brought up, their lack of thinking...basically I am blaming they themselves! After you reach the age of baligh your mom is not accountable for your sins coz the brain has developed enough to distinguish right from wrong...as in the Western world the teenager says its my life and moves out of the house....Islam tells the same ...its their life they will be answerable!

I am not going to be apologetic about some bastards who chose the wrong way based on lack of understanding or even basic thinking (logical thinking was flushed down within seconds because of the failure to activate the thinking region in the brain)



These are the result of lack of discipline of children....and also overprotection from god knows what fear of the 1860s when racism was on the high now it isnt and also lack of integration into the locals


I would say both! Why not address the perpetrator and then come to the victim!

Here is a story for you to read:


= "What Color Was The Dog?" =

Once there was a community of Muslims who were small in number yet large in iman and strong in action. So much so that, the kufaar [non-believers] could not defeat them in battle even though they had the Muslims out numbered.

One day a young man from the kufaar pretended to enter into Islam and he went to the big sheik [learned man] in one part of the city and listened to his teaching of the Quran. The subject happened to be on the chapter of the Quran called Al Kahaf (the Cave, #18].

When the sheik completed his talk he offered a chance for the brothers present to ask some questions. When it came the turn of the kafar, he asked the sheik the question:

“Sir, in the story of the ‘sleepers’ in the cave, there is mention of a dog. And I was wondering if I might inquire as to what color the dog might have been? I hope you don’t mind my asking, especially if it is something that maybe you don’t know the answer to.”

Immediately the sheik says to the young man, “That’s no problem at all, everyone should know that the dog was YELLOW.”
The young man said, “Are you sure? I mean, could it have been another color?”
“No.” replied the old sheik, “It was definitely YELLOW.” Once again the young man thanked him and when on his way.
The next night the young kafr man went to the other side of town and sat in another gathering of knowledge and they too were discussing different things about verses in the Quran.
So when it came time for the teacher to give each person attending, the opportunity to ask a question, the kafr man raised his hand and then asked the question, “In the chapter about the “Cave”, the sleepers are mentioned in different numbers but each time there is a reference to their dog as being counted along with them. Now I was wondering whether or not anyone of knowledge has ever made any reference to what the color the dog might have been?”
The sheik immediately said, “Yes! The dog in this story in the Quran was BLACK.”
The young kafar man was pleased and continued, “Sir, are you quite certain that the color of the dog mentioned in the story was BLACK?”
“Young man,” he quickly replied, “I’ll stake my reputation on that as a fact.”
“Thank you, sir.” Said the young man.
The next night the kafar posing as a Muslim went back to the first sheik and then when it came time for the questions and answers he raised his hand and asked, “Sheik, may Allah reward you for all your effort and knowledge and for sharing it with us. Could you maybe remind me about the answer to the question the other night about the color of the dog in the cave in Surah Al-Kahaf?” (Holy Quran: Chapter 18).
The sheik said, “There is no doubt whatsoever amongst the great scholars of Islam on this question. The dog was YELLOW. And anyone who says other than this has no knowledge.”
With that the young man spoke up again and said, “Sir, what would you say if someone else said that he would stake his reputation of being a scholar in Islam on the fact that the dog is not yellow, but rather that the dog is most certainly BLACK?”
The sheik quickly replied, “Then his reputation is not that of a scholar but one of a fool.”
Now the next time the kafr man went to the sheik that was upholding the idea of the dog being BLACK, he told the sheik that the sheik on the other side of town was calling him names and saying that he had no knowledge of Islam and that for sure that the dog was YELLOW.
The old sheik became angry and shouted, “You tell him, that I said he is the one without knowledge. I’m the one who graduated from the greatest of schools of Islam, while he is but a fool.”
The plan was working. Before long the community was divided into two groups. Each group was claiming that their sheik was the one with the correct answer. Fighting broke out in the streets and the Muslims began attacking each other all over the city. Everyone became involved to the extent that there was not a single person who was excluded from this terrible situation. Screaming, shouting, hitting and fighting were everywhere.

And then it happened. The kafr went back out to his people and told them, “Let us go to fight them now. You will now find them most easy to defeat.”

And that is exactly what they did.

Which Groups

If the perpetrator is not addressed we are not getting anywhere by not answering who the hell are these PIOUS THAN THOU under the mask of Muslims?

I would like an end to this from the root and you are trying to figure out temporary solutions!

CIA,mossad, mi6 and everybody is involved in this great conspiracy, yes we got it that the evil west that you happen to live in is involved with everything wrong in the world. If you want me to take you seriously as mon ami, please stop bringing up conspiracies with no evidence to back them up. Bringing half truth does nothing but only spin rather than tackle the situation. The wahabi ideology dates back to the days of ibn wahab and is a militant ideology at core and if you fail to see this then we are really have a conversation that will ultimately fail.

Like i said I largely blame a strain of sunni ideology and not the whole sect because it would be very simplistic and ignorant of me. Interesting enough about 3 years ago, I didnt even know that islam had any sects(how naive of me) until you lose a close family member that you notice people around hate you for what you believe in. So please stop spinning and accept the reality, once we accept this then lets work on eradication this from the inside rather than waiting from someone from the outside. The only reason i am arguing with you is partially because I see you try to always pass the blame on west and when it really lies in strain of wahabi/sunnie ideology and we have to fix that as a muslim community through education. Looking the other way will really end up stabbing us in the back as this cancer/ideology grows and will end up making our perception worse than it already is.

 

[livingdead]

My friend don't get it twisted, Sylheti's don't have low self-esteem - we are amongst the ancient upper class of BD. Yes we are very private and you can call us insular, but every bit of progress by BD's in the UK (and for many South Asians in general) is from start to finish the effort of Sylhetis. Tower Hamlets and Brick Lane are just 2 examples of areas abandoned by others and developed by local Sylhetis. The only British MP of BD descent is a Sylheti. The largest mosque in Europe was established by Sylhetis.

The zamindar culture in Sylhet meant we always focussed more on honour and Iman rather than cheap cleverness - and that side of our character has become our weakness today.

You are right that Sylheti's are the majority in London and many have really taken the mullahs' bait. But trust me wannabe Arabs we are not.

I would beg to differ.. tower hamlet and brick lane are still below their potential considering their location.. they are still among deprived areas in london..
the improvement there should be credited to regeneration of dockland and consequent property boom and the gentrification that continues now.
About ancient upper class, and honour system, I dont know much about it, so would not comment on that. But in london, sylhoti commit more crimes( gangs, drugs, prostitution) than other bangladeshi... surely the kids are not in cotrol of their parents and are not taught any honour or eman.

 

[Dubious]

I see so lets blame west for the problem

Err did I blame the west?

IF I said America or CIA did it ...Does that involve the WHOLE WEST? You do know West includes more than American continent, Still more than America and DEFINITELY more than the CIA alone! And not every American is a CIA so blame is not on them ...nor does every American even supports the mischievous activities of the CIA...

Please be clear as to what twisted policies can lead to! And how stating a blow back is not blaming no one...

Though I am not sure how you missed my repeatedly telling how those who went are ALONE to blame for...Say they thought they were doing good...fine anyone can make a mistake but BY GOD didnt their heart and soul yank when they made the 1st kill? Didnt their Souls rip apart with the 1st rape? Did they not remember the same GOD whom they came to fight for when they raped and slaughtered?

Why should I associate with monsters who felt nothing? They are what they are MONSTERS...No way am I gonna acknowledge them as Muslims when none of that crap is stated anywhere in Islam....

The only time I did read this shit was from ANTI ISLAMIC SITES...If you would like I can send you links and you can see a ditto copy of what they are doing and what those sites explain Islam as....

CIA,mossad, mi6 and everybody is involved in this great conspiracy, yes we got it that the evil west that you happen to live in is involved with everything wrong in the world.

I live in the West not with CIA or MOSSAD or MI6....
I live in the West which has more to it than CIA MOSSAD MI6
Please stop trying to equate the WHOLE WEST which is soo damn vast to small bodies which cause mischief and is repeated reported to have caused mischief in other parts of the world!

If you want me to take you seriously as mon ami, please stop bringing up conspiracies with no evidence to back them up. Bringing half truth does nothing but only spin rather than tackle the situation. The wahabi ideology dates back to the days of ibn wahab and is a militant ideology at core and if you fail to see this then we are really have a conversation that will ultimately fail.

May I ask you WHY is it CIA MOSSAD MI6 is equated to a conspiracy while Wahabi has become a fact without proof? I dont support whatever that ideology states coz Sultanate to begin with is not allowed in Islam ...how can equality be followed when 1 man (sultan) owns everything?

Well how about you bring proof of this Wahabi ideology? Coz mind your West which is composed of CIA literally live in Saudi...so half truths from your side are not worth much even to yourself!

Next, Watch Yusuf Estes (MAN FROM THE WEST) regarding Wahabi ideology he explains it well with history...

So kid please get your facts right!

Than watch another video of a documentary of how the CALIPHATE was toppled by Britain £ for some chiefs who were promised power and a land called Saudi Arabia....THAT is historical facts...If still it is a conspiracy for you than I am really sorry about where you are headed is: Anything against the West = conspiracy and anything against Islam = fact!

Globalists created Wahhabi Terrorism to Destroy Islam and Justify a Global State | Global Research
Truth About the Fall of the Ottoman Empire [Islamic Khilafah] - YouTube
About | Global Research
https://kanaanonline.org//articles/00361.pdf

And there are many more....

Like i said I largely blame a strain of sunni ideology and not the whole sect because it would be very simplistic and ignorant of me.

And what about the Shia sect? Are they all humble and perfect?
There is BS in every ideology: $10m offered for Brits kidnapped by Iraqi Shia militants, says former hostage - Telegraph

Plus you have stupid tv channels reporting Sunni this and Shia that...How the hell can you tell a shia from a sunni from their faces? I understand if they talk or said something...but they show you a bloody picture of people suffering and label it shia than a man going mad and label it sunni and people nod to it without questioning...for all we know those bloody people could be some bastards without a religion!

and many more can be followed....

I blame these ideologies to the point of the teacher ...an ideology is harmless unless a teacher commands its continuous existence and causes harm to humanity!

That leads us to the followers ...do they not have a brain? DO they not think what kind of GOD will ask them to chop heads without questioning?

Interesting enough about 3 years ago, I didnt even know that islam had any sects(how naive of me) until you lose a close family member that you notice people around hate you for what you believe in.

If you are currently blinded by hate than you have become what you hate!

So please stop spinning and accept the reality, once we accept this then lets work on eradication this from the inside rather than waiting from someone from the outside.

I have quoted you in another thread where it explains the formation of the SAUD KINGDOM and who backed it and why! So if you want to blame "Wahabism" Blame it on BRITAIN AND FRANC's greed + screw up!

What they did was mischievous mending! I dont know how much you want to ignore it as conspiracy! But laws of inertia had taken place in the early 1900s ....And wake up from what you consider spinning reality as REALITY and accept it!

Britain's legacy to the tortured Ottoman Empire

The only reason i am arguing with you is partially because I see you try to always pass the blame on west and when it really lies in strain of wahabi/sunnie ideology and we have to fix that as a muslim community through education.

By pointing out reality I am not PASSING THE BLAME but pointing out to you what happened and why we are facing shithole consequences...If you fail to wake up...I have not much to say ...Almost all the sources are from YOUR WEST so suit yourself ..

Looking the other way will really end up stabbing us in the back as this cancer/ideology grows and will end up making our perception worse than it already is.

I never looked the other way...BUT stating its root cause is by no way looking the other way nor is claiming that this is not part of ISLAM is not looking the other way...Why should I be apologetic about what some morons did and are still doing when I clearly know it has nothing to do with Islam?

The back stabbing will only happen if you keep being apologetic about it! If something is not a part of Islam why should I shy away from admitting it has no roots in Islam? Why should I be apologetic about what others are doing? Did they ask me before they did it? Was it I that granted them permission for their doing? NO than why the hell should I cover it up or make an attempt to hide it or apologize on their behalf?

 

[EasyNow]

I would beg to differ.. tower hamlet and brick lane are still below their potential considering their location.. they are still among deprived areas in london..
the improvement there should be credited to regeneration of dockland and consequent property boom and the gentrification that continues now.
About ancient upper class, and honour system, I dont know much about it, so would not comment on that. But in london, sylhoti commit more crimes( gangs, drugs, prostitution) than other bangladeshi... surely the kids are not in cotrol of their parents and are not taught any honour or eman.

Sorry this is gonna go off topic, but i need to clear some misconceptions here.

Tower Hamlets has always been one of the most deprived and dangerous parts of London, it was home to the worst classes of Brits - the poor and the racist. The great location did not help the Irish or the Jews to make it any more livable. The great location does not help neighbouring Hackney either. It was Bd's who laid their groundwork, built thousands of businesses (as is our way) and rejuvenated Brick Lane with their curry houses, cinema (now closed) and supermarkets, and this in turn is what rejuvenated the contemporary/ crafts and art scene here. Now that we have established a stable, safe and attractive atmosphere - suddenly the credit goes to the Docklands?

The areas near the Docklands - canning town, poplar are actually some of the worst and ironically, there are fewer Bds there.

No other community has managed to shape their area like Sylhetis in London. Green st, Southall, Wembley.. Asians have been there for decades and the areas still look and feel horrible. Gentrification is happening everywhere but compare TH with Hackney, Southwark or London bridge and they have nowhere near the impact TH has had.

The area did not just improve around us. The council in TH had been dominated by Bds for over 20 years now, give them some credit for drawing down funds and organising the regeneration.

No offence but you've only observed the surface. Yes there are many kids on the streets and many are up to no good. But you have to remember that this is the inner city - there is nowhere for these kids to go. The rich white kids who have moved in, cycle around the same corners. Look again and you will see that however civilised and educated a boy is, in the inner city he will always look like a street kid. I can assure you some of the people you refer to are more well off, better educated and cultured than you'd imagine. Most BDs choose to live in TH and they pay highly for the privilege - a house in Wembley can be bought for the same price as a 1 bed flat in TH.

Our businesses are clean and organised. Our streets are safe compared to any other in inner London, our mosques are some of the best in Europe (I'm only mentioning these as successful projects). And this even though we are the most recent of all south Asian immigrants into London.

Finally, you mentioned crime - yes it exists, but you threw in Sylheti prositution in the UK?! I'm sorry but that's ridiculous, virtually unheard of. You have been keeping some pretty prejudiced company if you've been told that. Google any Asian nationality and prostitute and see how many results you get, then compare that with Sylheti or Bangladeshi - you will find none. We are a close knit community and that s### don't pass.

Yes there are gangs because we have aimless youth, there is crime for the same reasons - and it is for these same reasons we have become prey to extremism. Take my advice and talk to a real, average Sylheti and you will get a good idea of what we are like.