Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[Jf Thunder]

You are a habitual offender in that regard. My not bringing this up before has caused this to happen to me today. Serves me right.

LOL

 

[Serpentine]

Like I said

i will live to kiss your hands if I am proven wrong.

Amen

the reports from Syria and Iraq and not very encouraging.

those terrorists have killed Iranians who went to fight against the FSA and AL Qaeda terrorists.

our soldiers in the "peace time" also suffered because our taliban apologist parties didnt want our military to take actions against them.

My dear friend, Iranians are not immortals, naturally they also die when they get bullets

Also, compare Iranians casualties with those of rebels or Nusrats and AQ. SAA used to have the most casualties in the beginning due to being unorganized and inexperienced for urban warfare, but look now, they have literally turned in to an urban force, and this hasn't happened magically or overnight.

Also Iran is not actually fighting on the ground, those very few who have been killed are mostly voluntary forces who go there based on personal matters and ideology, not the real soldiers or special forces. Iran's military involvement in Syria or Iraq is limited to advising their armies and some training, not sending foot soldiers.

 

[JonAsad]

There are many verses about the battle of Badr in the Quran so what you are hinting at is a little off the mark.

Fortunately I also understand your point and will not further explain myself because of it being pointless. We all know the significance of the battle of badr and that of karbala, if our history lessons are not different.

Allow me to explain myself further- this will be the last from my side since its iftari time after- not because it maybe pointless

The Battle of Badr- after that Islam as a whole- a single entity rose to power-

The Event of Karbala- A faction of Islam later a sect- inessence A distinctive division in Islam rose to power-

I would rather have the battle of Badr as part of Islam than the event of Karbala-

Iftari time- later

Here is another live example, our attitude damn it.You all can see practical examples of my theoretical post.When I was busy writing and proof reading , my fellow friends were busy fighting with each other and proving each other wrong,instead of realizing

Lol next time you are about to write a theoretical post and proof read it- Inform the brothers in advance- we will sit together hand in hand all praises to the Lord and each other- until your message is posted- then we all can go back fighting each other and proving each other wrong- -

One question: do you really proof read? Itna time kaisay? -

 

[illusion8]

already do that

the fundamentals cant be cahnged like Book and Belief in One'ness of God

what we have open for interpretition or Jurisprudence is Moamlat or our daily life and we do that according to the current times and take Quran and Sunnah as a source or reference.

so its not rigid as it appears or as wahabis have you believe.

had it been up to wahabis then not much would have changed since the darkages


do look up a book of wahabi fatwas back during the time of Biritsh Raj

who declared travelling in kafir train or Ship resulted in annulment of your marriage and expulsion from islam.
or listening to radio or talking over the phone etc was like having sex with satan and so forth if they had it their way then yes we all needed some serious rethink.

but like I said we have been more open and adapting than other faiths even at the time of early Islam

e.g.

we for first time accepted the rights of women and their right to property

before that.

women WERE the property (a tribal custom, which is unfairly associated with Islam).

do note that there are limitations what you can adapt and change what you cant.. you have to leave the fundamentals alone because thats what defines you or distinguishes you.

otherwise you are just a mishmash.
belief in monotheism doesnt stop you from conquering Moon and breaking up the atoms or finding cures to chronic diseases or making a new branch of mathematics.

remember the inquisition? burning people alive or drowning them on the charges of being witch in Europe back in the medieval times? I swear on my dog that ISI was not involved in it,

Not enough, superficial changes that an Islamic world order in the name of caliphate wishes to cancel when they can. I find Islam the most rigid and closed religion out there. You talk of upholding the fundamentals - what happens when people want to bring back the fundamentals which are in sharp contrast to modern laws of the lands that Islamic states have accepted? Aren't you a target exactly for that reason? that's what the Islamists strive to do - that is bring you and other Muslim societies back on the right path?. Don't your own spiritual leaders preach the same fundamentals (shariah) and your students read the same fundamentals and see the munafiqism of the change in the lands law where you have adopted kuffars laws into your own societies - and which encourages the same student to rebel against it and encourages the Mullahs to call for change in the lands laws and make it more Islamic?

 

[Owl of Abott]

i have no hesitation in saying that the muslim world is being ruled by leaders that are corrupt/megalomanics/capitalists,muslims are divided on the basis of ethnicity and sect,and muslims don,t have the will to start a revolution against these leaders,as muslims have simply allowed these leaders to loot them,they will simply remain destitutes until these leaders would deprive them of everything they have.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

you can't drive on the wrong side of road. you will cause trouble for yourself and others.

Tribals can live in the trees. I don't care

But if tree dwellers come down and force their Sharia on fellow land dwellers, then obviously things will go up in flames.

This thread is pointing to the same issue.

Bunch of primitive tribals are trying to impose their Sharia on fellow tribals

hence the flames.

It will remain so until they get civilized and no longer behave in primitive ways.

Yeah. I agree with you. Not much different than Israelies/Americans and Europeans colluding with the Arabs/Pakistanis to wage the holiest wards against Soviet infidels.

Bunch of educated people coming together to massacre people on both sides in the name of religion.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Not enough, superficial changes that an Islamic world order in the name of caliphate wishes to cancel when they can. I find Islam the most rigid and closed religion out there. You talk of upholding the fundamentals - what happens when people want to bring back the fundamentals which are in sharp contrast to modern laws of the lands that Islamic states have accepted?

no sir
like I explained before you are confusing whabism as Islamic rule

be specific about something in the social life where Islam is antisocial?

you say faith and state should be separated right?
I say we dont have to because it doesnt stand in the way but if it helps you to move your argument lets say ok and pick up where you are constrained from living a virtuous, happy, social life and a constructive member of society and a practicing Muslim.

I am here to learn now so please do tell so that I can help you to understand

or throw the towel

 

[rockstar08]

Dude , first of all my request is to read my post as muslim not as shia , sunni or etc...
first i think i have to clear your mind by saying few things, Islam was not came on earth to be destroyed of day , just because of terrorism ? of course not .. if you look into muslim history you will realize that we have faced worse situation and our religion survived ... in the battle of badr , if 313 muslim were defeated what will be status of islam today ??
what if we lost prophet Muhammad pbuh ? when Prophet died peoples try to divide muslims but bringing up the issue of his successor and than muslims first time in history start fighting among themselves ,you should have keep faith in your heart and mind that islam is send to dominate this world . as you are telling me the worse kind of muslims so keep few things in mind ... its not just muslims , christians , hindu , buddists , catholics and jews you will find extremist in all religion and if you dig a little more you will find blood in their cloths .... dont forget what catholics did in Crusades , dont forget what hindus did in gujrat , dont forget what happen in World wars, dont forget what happen in burma , dont forget what is happening in Gaza and of course never forget what muslims did to each other .... my way of thinking is pretty different from others, peoples may have different pov but as if you mentioned me so let me tell you something . i believe that whatever you are experiencing in life is all leading us towards the end ... what ever our Prophet prophesized about the rise and fall of muslims are coming true , All of his prophecies are coming true word by word ..... as you mentioned you are history student go and search that muslims only get defeated when they are far from Islamic teaching and when they give more importance to world over the hereafter ... all the muslims should understand one thing that islam is not just a religion its a way of life , islam will not offer you anything in this world as rewards for example , if you give Zakat you will get a beautiful wife ... this is not going to happen , All your action directly or in directly connected to your After life , islam ask his followers to create a good after life , because the most you live in this world is 100 years ..
there are several hadith where Prophet warn us about muslims , arabs , and downfall of islam ... and if you look at no just non arabs ,but arabs are way too forward in disgracing the islam .... i have been to UAE two times and what i see there ignorant , rich , and worse kind of arabs, who have cross all limits of islamic cultures , if you ever been to dubai you will know what i mean ... we always question other why this why that ? have we ever see each other what we are ? ? a rich man is working hard to make his wealth double and a poor guy is cheating people to be rich ? both are same no ?? we give bribe money to police officers , arent we equal sinners ? our Masjid are today headquarters of religious politics and terrorism where peoples go to learn about firaq ... peoples are openly spreading hate against each other , peoples are giving fatwaas , i have see peoples who some times dont want to offer salah in certain mosques ?! is this what our Prophet teach us ?? if hate that he preach than why didnt he killed all the meccans who once hit him with stones ??? when Omar ibn khatab didnt slaughter all the jews when he take over Jerusalem ?
this is not the end of islam bro ... its just the beginning of our downfall , Allah has created a system of life and death , peoples die only reasons are different , sometimes they die because of Aids, sometimes they die from war , so sometimes they die from accidents ... islam is made to dominate this world but not by force but by love ...some peoples believe islam spread from sword ... i believe islam didnt spread by sword but Sword was used in order to spread islam ... if you have little knowledge you will understand what i mean here .

instead of being hopeless , start correcting yourself , your family , your society and your city every individual has contribution to make in this world ... Allah will not take any excuse that my fellow country men are all secular so i become one ... my fellow country men think islam is just a religion for dark age peoples and its not acceptable in today , so to avoid embarrassment i didnt do anything ?
and those who are fighting today in iraq and syria ... let them fight , let them shout " Allah ho Akber " let them take the banner of kalimah tayaba .. just ask yourself is that all required to be a muslim ???

 

[Zabaniyah]

How does a religion die? Islam will remain. Muslim societies? Well, as long as they are progressive and enlightened, then they are okay.

Long ago, there was a village in Khulna in present-day Bangladesh. Once, the British built a road there to facilitate logistics. The villagers angry went out saying that they'll desecrate anything that moves on that road, and even kill that road if possible; saying that the road will bring shame to their society and penetrate the veils of their daughters. They were resistant to progressive change, even at intellectual levels.
-Lal Shalu by Syed Waliullah.

Even at present, West Bengal is culturally far more progressive and advanced than East Bengal. I guess the Bengali secularists during the days of the Cold War didn't turn out too well either.

I do not know about the likes of ISIS, or where their "ideals" come from. Those guys have serious anger management issues if you ask me.

Call me a conspiracy nut if you like, but I suspect that someone is using them for their own personal gain. That kind of financing, meticulous accounting and internal control under such a short period of time cannot be achieved by the bunch of savage religious nut-jobs. Something very powerful is most certainly aiding them. On the other hand, mercenaries will do anything to create demand for their services, even at the behest of religion. There are people who love war.

On a more holistic level, Muslims that aren't necessarily the "ISIS type", but....."lost" (regardless of sect or views) need to understand who's in control here, and take matters into their own hands. Allowing non-Muslim powers to solve their problems would only bring about more whining, and perhaps more blood like the ones seen from ISIS. Not an easy task, but it is a necessary thing to do.

But there is one important lesson to learn from ISIS: the right to self determination to power.

 

[SOHEIL]

ISLAM ZINDA HOTA HAI HAR KARBALA KAY BAAD....

What did you said about karbala !?

 

[Bratva]

You talking about the supposedly devine purpose? -

Yeah sort of. i'm a rational person Jon sahab, you may not believe such theories, But I became believer of it after reading works of Q U Shahab, Wasif ali wasif, Ashfaq Ahmad, Professor kamal hussain, Mumtaz mufti and what they said about Pakistan future

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What did you said about karbala !?

a line of poetry which states that Islam is reborn after each karbala
the poet is giving tribute to the sacrifice of the Imam Haussain R.A whose murder eventually resulted in the rise of Islam and the over throwing of Yazid La'een

 

[SOHEIL]

a line of poetry which states that Islam is reborn after each karbala
the poet is giving tribute to the sacrifice of the Imam Haussain R.A whose murder eventually resulted in the rise of Islam and the over throwing of Yazid La'een

Thanks ...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thanks ...

In Pakistani Sunni poetry, there is a huge potion set aside for deep reverence towards Imam Hussain ra sacrifice.

Additionally the highest bravery medal for Pakistani army is named after Ali ra.

It is called

Nishan -e- Haider

 

[illusion8]

no sir
like I explained before you are confusing whabism as Islamic rule

be specific about something in the social life where Islam is antisocial?

you say faith and state should be separated right?
I say we dont have to because it doesnt stand in the way but if it helps you to move your argument lets say ok and pick up where you are constrained from living a virtuous, happy, social life and a constructive member of society and a practicing Muslim.

I am here to learn now so please do tell so that I can help you to understand

or throw the towel

The confusion here is that does Islam accept these changes in the laws or lifestyles that has been written and that some Muslim countries adopt? please tell me which wing of Islam other than wahhabi is open to change - the change in its diction, it's interpretation, it's express laws to govern? let's not go into intricacies here but dont you see the conflict right there? A billion sunni's told to follow one set of rules and any deviation (other sects) from that creates conflicts.

You say that Islam has changed - that it has adopted the change, but isn't the conflict for that exact same reason?

You yourself gave an example of the women's non rights as being anti social right? I haven't given any as it is open for interpretation.

Do you feel religion intercepting with governance in the modern sense? does your religious governance encompass all Muslims within the state? does it encompass and satisfy the clergy, the mosque, the hot heads, the moderates, the liberals, the questioners, the deviants, the apostates, the critiques? - lets leave out the non Muslims here because that's a totally different story. Doesn't the whole conflict point arise because different groups interpret the same style of governance as deviating or taking them away from their deen or bringing them closer to it depending on one's perception?

Most non Muslim countries in the world have separated religion from state - I assume there's a good enough reason for that.