Is the problem at the heart of Islam, the silence of sensible Muslims?

[KS]

very much relevents since yours is like inheritence thats why so many gods everyone posses whereas in Islam we dont have any such

No you have NOT understood what I said to ajtr. So please stop replying to this part. As for inheritance, no, it is not inherited. Lav and Kush are not considered divine figures even though they were born to Ram.

Every prophet's actions were based on orders of God, what Prophet Moses did What Prophet Jesus what Prophet Ibrahim did so as Last Prophet Muhammad.


As far as warfare is concerned again you lack knowledge about Islam. Prophet Muhammamd (PBUH) preached peacefully secretively for few years then for many years publically but peacefully , it was only when idol worhsupers thrust the wars on Muslims then the Muslims retaliated and the rest is in front of eveyone, the Muslim empire spread and spread spread under following Muslim Kings/rulers

Well the xtians were harrased by the Romans and Jews too. They did not go for retaliatory strikes.

 

[sreekimpact]

You understanding of Islam is totally wrong

1. Islam was not something new we believe in all the Prophets and we believe concept of ONE and only God was always there and His prophets were sent time to time to implement this concpet. Its only Islam where it was selaed viz a viz Prophets.


2. Islam is NOT Arab methadology neither it has anything to do with Arabism rather its negation of Arabism aka idolworshiping.

3. Islam is NOT just religion thingy its about complete way of life including Social issues, personal issues, political system, defence system and all.
The only need of the hour is to purge it from the fake semi-illiterate mullas

i doubt the bolded part in your statement ....if it was complete then we will not be talking about this here........

 

[I spikes therefore I am]

does Ram has to claim anything when in the beginning itself its told that Vishnu will be reincarnated as Ram in house of Dashratha.As for building an emipre didnt Ram performed the Ashwamegh yagna to expand his empire.

When he told? Ram born in Ayodhya because of his mother's karma. Border extension is a part of Kshatriya dharma , if anybody challenged his horse(aswam) during that yagam time he will fight thats the concept. Actually nobody fought with him at that time.

 

[OOPS !]

very much relevents since yours is like inheritence thats why so many gods everyone posses whereas in Islam we dont have any such






Every prophet's actions were based on orders of God, what Prophet Moses did What Prophet Jesus what Prophet Ibrahim did so as Last Prophet Muhammad.


As far as warfare is concerned again you lack knowledge about Islam. Prophet Muhammamd (PBUH) preached peacefully secretively for few years then for many years publically but peacefully , it was only when idol worhsupers thrust the wars on Muslims then the Muslims retaliated and the rest is in front of eveyone, the Muslim empire spread and spread spread under following Muslim Kings/rulers

balh blah , We worship Humans , We worship nature and life, We don't worship GOD WHICH DOESN'T have ANY EXISTENCE . We made good humans god and bad humans devil.


By the way followers of first two prophet discard Muhammad as a third prophet whats ur take on this ? if Muhammad is third prophet then why so much hate trade in you religious text about non-Muslims(Jew , christens).

 

[Spring Onion]

Well atleast you got this one partially correct imo. Islam is more about political system, defence, empire building, code of conduct than spirituality. That is why I said it could be a religion that was created to help create the afforementioned things.

As ajtr also mentioned it was not created Islam was already there, it was implementation of real orders of God/Allah which were forgotten and put aside by other nations of the book.

Hmmm but the problem is Jews and Christians dont accept Islam's attempt to digest their own Prophets/Gods as its own, albeit outdated, Prophets.

They dont accept thats one thing what matters is that their leaders, scholars, spritual leaders already know the reality and facts and thats what matters.

Thats why you see this triangle

 

[KS]

Countries where politics have become part of Islam are failing miserably.
Those who understand the importance of separation between state and mullah are prospering.


Politics are not an integral part of Islam and neither advocated as such. However a few mullahs have taken history of Arabs and bent on replicating it in Afghanistan and Pakistan - by taking it back to stone age when people lived in tents and commuted on camels.

Then what about the concepts in Hadith about Caliphate and all.

Hey Im just trying to reconcile two entirely opposite viewpoints -- one saying Islam is a complete package, politics, social, family, administrative and religious and others like you saying politics is not integral to Islam.

I agree when you say those countries that mix Islam with poltiics are failing miserably, but my question is can politics be taken out of that one complete package called Islam ?

 

[Azazel]

Countries where politics have become part of Islam are failing miserably.
Those who understand the importance of separation between state and mullah are prospering.


Politics are not an integral part of Islam and neither advocated as such. However a few mullahs have taken history of Arabs and bent on replicating it in Afghanistan and Pakistan - by taking it back to stone age when people lived in tents and commuted on camels.

But still at the end of the day,I bet guys like you will go on and blame Secularism is Un Islamic and Seculars as western agents.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

You understanding of Islam is totally wrong

1. Islam was not something new we believe in all the Prophets and we believe concept of ONE and only God was always there and His prophets were sent time to time to implement this concpet. Its only Islam where it was selaed viz a viz Prophets.

This sealing was done perfectly with holybook which is final word of ALLAH & cannot be challenged which itself made it un-reformable.

3. Islam is NOT just religion thingy its about complete way of life including Social issues, personal issues, political system, defence system and all.

So is hinduism.

Hinduism also has economic, social, education, political, warfare systems, etc. well built in it but forseeing minority & the present day world around us we kept religion away from state & political affairs.

Religion should remain at worship places & Politics should stay in Parliments. No country has ever succeeded mixing these two.

 

[KS]

As ajtr also mentioned it was not created Islam was already there, it was implementation of real orders of God/Allah which were forgotten and put aside by other nations of the book.

Well that is your belief and I have no rights to ask you not to believe in that. But obviously others dont buy that.

They dont accept thats one thing what matters is that their leaders, scholars, spritual leaders already know the reality and facts and thats what matters.

What reality ? Can you explain ?

 

[Spring Onion]

balh blah , We worship Humans , We worship nature and life, We don't worship GOD WHICH DOESN'T have ANY EXISTENCE . We made good humans god and bad humans devil.

Thats your concept you can worship anything not my headache

By the way followers of first two prophet discard Muhammad as a third prophet whats ur take on this ? if Muhammad is third prophet then why so much hate trade in you religious text about non-Muslims(Jew , christens).

third? nevermind you seems the most ignorant person in this thread.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

balh blah , We worship Humans , We worship nature and life, We don't worship GOD WHICH DOESN'T have ANY EXISTENCE . We made good humans god and bad humans devil.

Dude, Have some manners of communications! You tone stinks.

 

[OOPS !]

third? nevermind you seems the most ignorant person in this thread.

that's the concept of our culture
third ,last , 100th whatever it is , Follower of Judaism an and Jesus don't accept Muhammad ,Where you claim prophecy heredity from them .

sorry for being rude but there is some fact.

 

[angeldust]

Dude, Have some manners of communications! You tone stinks.

I agree. Its vitiating a good discussion.

 

[Spring Onion]

This sealing was done perfectly with holybook which is final word of ALLAH & cannot be challenged which itself made it un-reformable.

The need for reforms arises when you implement it in true spirit and you dont get the desired result as promised by it, here the issue is that we never implemented it in its origional form

So is hinduism.

Hinduism also has economic, social, education, political, warfare systems, etc. well built in it but forseeing minority & the present day world around us we kept religion away from state & political affairs.
Religion should remain at worship places & Politics should stay in Parliments. No country has ever succeeded mixing these two.

The equality rule is breached by your economic and social injustice in your religion so you cant compare it with Islam here.

2. for the bold part we also kept it away from the political affairs of the state thats why you see many unworthy rulers here.

 

[KS]

The need for reforms arises when you implement it in true spirit and you dont get the desired result as promised by it, here the issue is that we never implemented it in its origional form

Hmm..sorry..you are NOT allowed to tinker with Quran. its absolute,final and perfect. Period. Is that the fact ? :/