Is the problem at the heart of Islam, the silence of sensible Muslims?

[ajtr]

Ram didn't create any religion of his own ..........

I wont say Islam being new religion.Actually it follows the same prophets from Adam and Eve in that line Mohammad being the last prophet.Just like its said in Geeta


yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

(Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.)

So same in concept is can be viewed in judaism/christianity/Islam that whenever there is rise in iireligion God has sent his Prophets on earth to guide mankind.

 

[KS]

3. Islam is NOT just religion thingy its about complete way of life including Social issues, personal issues, political system, defence system and all.

Well atleast you got this one partially correct imo. Islam is more about political system, defence, empire building, code of conduct than spirituality. That is why I said it could be a religion that was created to help create the afforementioned things.

So same in concept is can be viewed in judaism/christianity/Islam that whenever there is rise in iireligion God has sent his Prophets on earth to guide mankind.

Hmmm but the problem is Jews and Christians dont accept Islam's attempt to digest their own Prophets/Gods as its own, albeit outdated, Prophets.

 

[ajtr]

We are told. He was not told, nor was he or Dasratha aware of that. Yes, he performed those yagnas as was required of the Kshatriyas those days. He considered himself a mere mortal, a king who was doing his Raj Dharma and not as a God/Avatar/Prophet..while in case of Mohammed, he claimed he was the divine Prophet. Get the difference ?

Why he need to be told when he himself is god can mere mortals tell the God that he is God.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

No need to complain that the world thinks badly about Islam. No need at all.

We got what we asked for. There is no denying about this fact.



Oh meray Indian bhai logo, my friends you must understand (that we Muslims do not know) about two key aspects of Islam.

A) There is Islam the religion. The book, the prayers, the hujj, the zakat, the namaz etc.

B) Then there is political Islam. The Ayatullees from Iran, the Mullees from Saudi, and Talibaboons, and Jamat Islami in Pakistan.


Is the world worried if I go for hujj? No.
Or I pray, give charity? No.

So why all this noise then? Why all this fuss then?

Well brothers, the noise from within or outside comes due to "political Islam" the B-side, the baaaaaaad side. People love the A-side of Islam. Can you get any better religion that says that I clean myself 5 times a day, I speak truth, I be trustworthy, I take care of my street, my neighbors, my neighborhood, my city? Can you get a better religion that says respect women, lower your gaze when you see one on the street. Work hard. be honest, otherwise you will be punished on the day of judgement?

Sure there are other religions who say the same thing. But we are talking about the side A of Islam.

It is the B-side that is fing up the whole thing, stinking up the world, messing us up and others. It is the B-side that is hell bent on destroying itself and in the process destroys the A-side too.


You know guys!

In 100 years or so, just like Europeans of middle ages, we the Pakistanis too will realize that religion gets destroyed when you mix politics with it. It gets corrupted when you allow a politician to be the leader in a mosque.

So, we will remain in the deep $hit as long as we continue allowing 2-bit politicians to run our mosques.

The day we kick out a Mullee from our mosque who talks politics, and Ayatullee form Imam bargah the moment he talks politics $hit, we will be in paradise on earth. heaven on earth for sure. I guarantee it.

And there are many many Mullahs and many mosques that do not mix politics with religion. But they are being drowned out with the noisy and hateful characters from Shia and Wahabi groups. As these two can overwehlm using their petro-dollars, overwehlm anyone who stands against the B-side of Islam and tries to kick it out or mosques, and our homes, and our countries. But the day is not far when petro dollars will be gone and when Ayatullees and Mullees will come to us begging for food. That day the B-side the baaaad side of Islam would be dead for good.

Hope you guys understand this.


peace

One of the BEST POST I have ever read on PDF where MUD-SLINGING on other religions is common trait by Muslim members to show themselves clean.

Thanks Sir.

GOD BLESS YOU !

 

[ajtr]

Hmmm but the problem is Jews and Christians dont accept Islam's attempt to digest their own Prophets/Gods as its own, albeit outdated, Prophets.

Its like saying christians and jews dont accept Ram as God.

 

[KS]

Why he need to be told when he himself is god can mere mortals tell the God that he is God.

None of the people in his time too knew he was the incarnation of Vishnu. I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing since I could not be more clear than this.

Its like saying christians and jews dont accept Ram as God.

Who cares ? I'm perfectly fine with that. If they accept Ram as God then by default they are not Christians or Jews..lol

 

[KS]

@ FaujiHistorian :

You mentioned two types of Islams. The A and B varieties. And you wanted the B variety to be destroyed. But as far as I know, politics is an integral part of Islam and destroying the poltiics parts means destroying a part of Islam, Quran, Sharia. Not sure how it will go through.

 

[Rusty]

Silence of sensible Muslims?
This is such a crock statement.

If you are in a room with 90% white sheep and 10% black sheep, but you only shine a light on the black sheep and say, see they are all like this.
This is what you are doing.
There are plenty of Imams and Islamic Scholars who are leading a dialog within Islam.
Heck, Imams have been killed for not taking the same views as the Taliban or other more extreme groups.
These people are never mentioned because it is not in the narrative of the Western Imperialism.

I can make the same argument about the US during the invasion of Iraq, where were the sensible people then?
Or how about the destruction of the Babri Masjid or Gujrat?

Enemies of Islam like to pretend like it is a problem with Islam, when the real problem is Imperialism.
If America did not station it's military in our lands then there would be no terrorism.

 

[I spikes therefore I am]

As far I know Ram and Jesus led self disciplined life the former followed dharma/rajadharmic way and latter preached love and peace.

 

[somebozo]

@ FaujiHistorian :

You mentioned two types of Islams. The A and B varieties. And you wanted the B variety to be destroyed. But as far as I know, politics is an integral part of Islam and destroying the poltiics parts means destroying a part of Islam, Quran, Sharia. Not sure how it will go through.

The bad side is an incarnation of few corrupt royals to serve their own purpose nothing else. When Halaku invaded Baghdad, many believed that spilling the blood of Capliph Mutasim would lead to mass scale earthquakes and destruction. Such was the level of jahalat among the Baghdadis..now they find excuses in blaming other or beating the old dead horse of shia boogeyman.

 

[KS]

The bad side is an incarnation of few corrupt royals to serve their own purpose nothing else.

Leave out the Khaleeji sultans and sheiks. This is about Islam itself. Isnt politics an integral part of Islam..atleast that is what I think and that is what many Pakistanis, like Andromache say. So how are you going to separate politics from religion when in case of Islam politics is an interal part of religion ?

 

[kumarkumar1867]

Big difference between Hindu mythology and Islamic concept of religion. In your case its Kingdom like a property which can be transffered to a son but Prophethood is not like that.

Our Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did NOT use Islam to create a kingdom neither he owned any wordly thing nor he transffered it.

Rama was incarnition or Avatar of Lord Vishnu with a sole purpose to end the Ravana & to clean all Adharmis who were threat to Yagnya/Rishis/Meditation.

He was not materialistic which can be seen that though he was a Price of Raghukula, a would-be-emperor of Ayodhya, he accepted 14 years vanvaas without much fuss only to keep word given by his father.

And like Prophethood, Hindu avatar doesnt pass their divinity to son.

Also if you see Rama's life, he had much qualities of sacrifices for other than any prophet or all mortal religious figures combined together.

 

[OOPS !]

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

(Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.)

So same in concept is can be viewed in judaism/christianity/Islam that whenever there is rise in iireligion God has sent his Prophets on earth to guide mankind.

this where Islam die , Drama is here Duty , righteousness , not "RELIGIOUS PRACTICE" , RELIGIOUS PRACTICE has very low value in hinduism We don't need to pray five times to be HINDU.

 

[Spring Onion]

Not sure how what you said is relevant to what I said. Understand the point Im trying to make in contxt of ajtr;s post.

very much relevents since yours is like inheritence thats why so many gods everyone posses whereas in Islam we dont have any such

That was why He engaged in constant warfare with surrounding tribes rather than spending time praying and meditating as a Divine Prophet ought to.

Every prophet's actions were based on orders of God, what Prophet Moses did What Prophet Jesus what Prophet Ibrahim did so as Last Prophet Muhammad.


As far as warfare is concerned again you lack knowledge about Islam. Prophet Muhammamd (PBUH) preached peacefully secretively for few years then for many years publically but peacefully , it was only when idol worhsupers thrust the wars on Muslims then the Muslims retaliated and the rest is in front of eveyone, the Muslim empire spread and spread spread under following Muslim Kings/rulers

 

[somebozo]

Leave out the Khaleeji sultans and sheiks. This is about Islam itself. Isnt politics an integral part of Islam..atleast that is what I think and that is what many Pakistanis, like Andromache say. So how are you going to separate politics from religion when in case of Islam politics is an interal part of religion ?

Countries where politics have become part of Islam are failing miserably.
Those who understand the importance of separation between state and mullah are prospering.


Politics are not an integral part of Islam and neither advocated as such. However a few mullahs have taken history of Arabs and bent on replicating it in Afghanistan and Pakistan - by taking it back to stone age when people lived in tents and commuted on camels.