Is the non-usury laws in Islam actually practiced in modern banks in Islamic countries

[REhorror]

Well, we all know the no-usury laws in Islamic teaching.

But is this still practiced in modern Islamic countries? Do your local banks have interest rates?

 

[R2D2]

How do you guys rationalize this with Islamic teachings?

If you borrow a certain money and then pay more than the borrowed amount, that should be usury.

We know it is haram but the banks do not have an alternative Islamic System. The Sharia Court has given its verdict against Usury but the government is reluctant to implement it.

 

[REhorror]

We know it is haram but the banks do not have an alternative Islamic System. The Sharia Court has given its verdict against Usury but the government is reluctant to implement it.

It's Joever.

 

[R2D2]

The alternative Islamic system is given by Taqiuddin Annabhani in his book The economic system in Islam. But not only banking has to be changed there are seven other areas like distributing government land among the landless, public ownership of electricity production and minerals etc. The whole economic system has to be changed. America does not allow that.

 

[REhorror]

Tbh this makes me lose a lot of respect for Islamic governments.
They are so hard on the cultural stuff (hijab, religious marriage) but they let economic western-ism taking over.

 

[Trango Towers]

Islamic economic system is based on currency of Gold and Silver which has very little inflation.

Loooool ok mate. Good luck with that. Gold in the last 15 to 20 years went from $200 to over $2000. Look at the daily fluctuations on the gold markets. When you don't know something it's best not to type. Have a nice day

OK, sorry for posting this in the Pakistani board, I guess this should be more "World Affairs" kinda thing, is there any Islamic bank at all that still practices no-usury, or do Muslims just accept that every banks sin nowadays?

I think u should keep your money under the bed. But don't sleep with any women as it may be sin to have sex on the money.

What emotionally charged rants you post ... SIN

 

[R2D2]

OK, sorry for posting this in the Pakistani board, I guess this should be more "World Affairs" kinda thing, is there any Islamic bank at all that still practices no-usury, or do Muslims just accept that every banks sin nowadays?

If you keep your money in a current account then you are safe from participating in interest based system as far as your person is concerned but you are obligated to do Dawah for Islam so that the people are converted to Islam and Islamic Social, Economic and Political System is established.

Loooool ok mate. Good luck with that. Gold in the last 15 to 20 years went from $200 to over $2000. Look at the daily fluctuations on the gold markets. When you don't know something it's best not to type. Have a nice day


I think u should keep your money under the bed. But don't sleep with any women as it may be sin to have sex on the money.

What emotionally charged rants you post ... SIN

It is not gold gaining value by itself, it is because of shiploads of dollars being printed.

 

[Trango Towers]

If you keep your money in a current account then you are safe from participating in interest based system as far as your person is concerned but you are obligated to do Dawah for Islam so that the people are converted to Islam and Islamic Social, Economic and Political System is established.


It is not gold gaining value by itself, it is because of shiploads of dollars being printed.

Ugh.

Goodluck mate I am done

 

[TheSolution]

The alternative Islamic system is given by Taqiuddin Annabhani in his book The economic system in Islam. But not only banking has to be changed there are seven other areas like distributing government land among the landless, public ownership of electricity production and minerals etc. The whole economic system has to be changed. America does not allow that.

You probably reading some communist stuff larping as Islamic

 

[R2D2]

You probably reading some communist stuff larping as Islamic

Plz read the book mentioned and then we can discuss.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Money has a time value. Do you agree or not ?

Not here... it is static.
Money is itself not a instrument of wealth but transaction and transfer... It is stored value that transcends time. Gold or gold coin whenever/wherever found holds intrinsic value.

A true global impartial method of transfer therefore is/are precious metals.

Today, we not only can make a coin/currency that has built-in precious metals but readily verify it's authenticity. It is this alone that can undo the catastrophe/calamity of colonization and institutionalized usury, fixing of valuation, conversion rates and pegs. Disconnect/detach human endeavor from slaving onerously on productivity scales... be paid instead for a finsihed job, work or task...
And when paid retain it's value!

It means not toiling endlessly to pay for maintenance cycles, such as utilities etc. On arbitrary scales of time.
In current cycle... everyone feeds a pyramid. The wealthiest rides shoulders of the masses!
While the poorest toils alone.
No one becomes rich with labor or (hard)work but by manipulating/manipulation of coin/money/currency and/or markets... whiles success is sold as an aspiration to acquire the same... keeping the eyes on the ball and paying time it's homage... knowing fully well that it is not only a gamble but the society doesn't function or operate with everyone sitting at the same table or doing the same thing.

While the preambles do drag their heels... the subsequent are born into it... they cannot unlearn/undo what governs them... besides the powers that be are it's greatest beneficiaries... they've designed a system that protects their pedigree and pedestal. Besides they have what everyone else wants... money! It suits the designers, for their maximum benefit to egg everyone along. Feed them from the tree that ultimately traps them(the masses) for the rest of their lives. It is therefore, why or how the same interests represent or claim to, both the rich and the poor... remember IT IS the poor masses seeking what the opulent minority possesses.
All smoke and mirrors... hot air... with a structure whose invisible fence is Time itself!

 

[Indos]

Well, we all know the no-usury laws in Islamic teaching.

But is this still practiced in modern Islamic countries? Do your local banks have interest rates?

Bank is intermediary, they get money from some one else, lend it to businesses, consumers, and has to make profit to pay for the workers working in the process and also to build and maintain its infrastructure facility like office HQ building, branch offices, ATM machine, security system, technology infrastructure etc

Islamic Bank system is making the interest rate fluctuation based on the Bank profitability. In Indonesia, Shariah Bank finance is very healty and they are the most profitable bank during down turn period like Covid time because they can decrease the interest rate freely and the lenders to the Bank is not sensitive on the interest fluctuation so they keep lend the money to the bank despite getting less return.

Quran verses in my opinion stresses on Individual lending where you dont act as intermediary like for example it is Haram for me to lend money to my relatives who are in difficult situation by applying interest on it.

There is verses in Quran about the forbiden to give high interest, so it means normal interest is allowed, and this verse IMO shows the legality to use interest for Banking system. But it is Haram for out side of Banking System like personal lending. That particular verse also shows that Banking system should be controlled by the state that can punish any bank who apply high interest to their lenders, thus the verse can be seen as the religious basis for the formation of Central Bank owned by the state to control and regulate the banking sector, not allowing them to do their business freely.

 

[TacOps]

Well as you won't answer the simple question hiding behind the words naive I guess there is no point.

Islam is fair. Its doesn't want anyone to lose money.

Ribba is excessive charge on the loan of money. In English it's usury. Usury was banned in the christian world. Interest was introduced by Jews initially as a small incremental charge. However now some lenders charge extortionate amounts effectively turning interest into usury. West's laws are relaxed re interest.

Islamic finance is a nasty hidden ribba today.
Example you take a mortgage on a house in the west at market rate. Your payments will go up and down depending on market conditions. Islamic banks use high interest add do the calculation over say 25 years. Add the interest into a lump sum and sell you the house at a huge value saying now you pay us the rent for the house. They are cheating Muslims with words.

If yoj are over 30 and you think lending should be about charity ... good luck in life as life doesn't work like that

This is an interesting concept and has come to form my opinion in recent years as well. If we look at the traditional banking and regulatory systems, they are all about ensuring that banks do not lend too much and the debt service ratio remains manageable for an individual. Every bank wants to avoid asset possessions and collateral exercises since that is where they lose money and it's not their business. There are B lenders and vulture funds which do charge excessive rates and prey on the distressed. Having said that, vulture funds primarily lend to corporates so even if they are charging excessive, it's not that they are economically enslaving an individual which as per my understanding makes riba so undesirable.

Implementing how our Molvis define Islamic finance would mean that only equity markets would exist. There wouldn't be any meaningful lending but equity participation. The problem is that looking at the size of equity markets in our regions and the state of corporate governance, Islamic economies would wither due to unavailability of financing or at least grow at a much much slower rate than the rest of the world.

 

[Trango Towers]

This is an interesting concept and has come to form my opinion in recent years as well. If we look at the traditional banking and regulatory systems, they are all about ensuring that banks do not lend too much and the debt service ratio remains manageable for an individual. Every bank wants to avoid asset possessions and collateral exercises since that is where they lose money and it's not their business. There are B lenders and vulture funds which do charge excessive rates and prey on the distressed. Having said that, vulture funds primarily lend to corporates so even if they are charging excessive, it's not that they are economically enslaving an individual which as per my understanding makes riba so undesirable.

Implementing how our Molvis define Islamic finance would mean that only equity markets would exist. There wouldn't be any meaningful lending but equity participation. The problem is that looking at the size of equity markets in our regions and the state of corporate governance, Islamic economies would wither due to unavailability of financing or at least grow at a much much slower rate than the rest of the world.

Very well said.

 

[kingQamaR]

It deals with real transaction that relates to the real economy. This creates value and wealth in the economy. Contrary to the conventional banks that exist in the market, they create money out of thin air. Most of the Islamic contracts or transactions are based on an underlying principles or asset. One of the foundation of Islamic finance is via risk sharing. Basically, both parties in any contracts have to bear certain risk. For instance, in a financing contract with a mudaraba principle, capital provider and entrepreneur both have predetermined agreed profit ratio and the first will face the risk of losing his capital and the latter is his fruitless effort, assuming that there is no negligence in the project

 

[Trango Towers]

It deals with real transaction that relates to the real economy. This creates value and wealth in the economy. Contrary to the conventional banks that exist in the market, they create money out of thin air. Most of the Islamic contracts or transactions are based on an underlying principles or asset. One of the foundation of Islamic finance is via risk sharing. Basically, both parties in any contracts have to bear certain risk. For instance, in a financing contract with a mudaraba principle, capital provider and entrepreneur both have predetermined agreed profit ratio and the first will face the risk of losing his capital and the latter is his fruitless effort, assuming that there is no negligence in the project

Everything you write is correct.
Now try getting finance from an Islamic bank.