Is Mig-29 jets Good for Pakistan, For Maritime Attack?

[ptldM3]

Well some one say Pakistan can't afford twin engine. Pak been using and maintaining twin engines for decade. Plus Mig29 is useless when F16 already in inventory . Mig29 been shotdown my F16 more then one time. Its not necessary bulky plane which carry lots of load can provide proper air and ground cover. When specially in this era when low flying concept is suicidal for any pilot.

It's not that simple, export versions of the Mig-29 all came with dowgraded EW suits. Moreover, Iraqi, and Serbian Mig-29's were in horrible conditions; some had no functing radars, and the biggest factor was the pilots. In the hands of good pilots the Mig-29 is very lethal. Outdated German Mig-29 had no problems against F-16's and F-18's in mock combat.

Isn't this the plane that's long been famous for crashing at air shows? If I was an Indian I'm not sure I'd be scared of it, but if I was a Pakistani I sure would be!

There has been two Mig-29 crashes at airshows. One was from a bird strike and the other was a collision due to cloud cover. If you would like a can pull up videos of American F-18's, F-16's, and F-14's crashing at airshows.

Simple answer is we dont buy **** Russi Stuff....

ah ha, and R-33's, MI-17's, IL-78, and AK-101/103's arn't Russian?

 

[Quwa]

Yeah it will eat a lot of resources, but atleast it will become an own asset, not depending on others for life, and with a good cheap product can even become a contender against those which are already in the market.

Cost is not always important, especially something which has strategic value.

Though to be fair to this whole business, there is technically some room for MiG-29 in the PAF. However, not the older models in service with Malaysia, Algeria, etc, but rather, the new MiG-35. PAF was impressed with the older MiG-29s in the 1990s, but the MiG-35 is a much better fighter. At the very minimum, the MiG-35 does boast higher payload and longer range than the JF-17, so it would serve PAF Southern Command (including maritime) well. However, there are other reasons that could draw PAF to MiG-35:

1. As a method of acquiring the RD-93M turbofan with 90+kn, TVC, FADEC, etc, for use on JF-17. Usman Ansari reported that the potential RD-93M would likely be based off the RD-33MK. Next to attracting Russia, the MiG-35 and JF-17 can share a common engine, or at least utilize the same engine maintenance facilities.

2. ECM/EW, avionics, radar, HMD/S, weapon-systems, etc, can be standardized between JF-17 and MiG-35.

Besides, Pakistan has no substantial shortage of Russian-origin equipment: Mi-17/171 helicopters, IL-78 MRTT, Kalashnikov rifles, etc. Infrastructure wise, Pakistan can absorb a fair number of Russian aircraft and weapons.

 

[ptldM3]

RD 93 ...latest engine used in Mig29 ...but Russian has lot less life and required more maintenance then Russian one...plus burn lot more gas. Hate smoke trail in Russian engine...
To Indian , IAF been using Russian high tech long time....what's the cause of this smoke trail in Russian engines ?

I would guess the A/F ratio is too rich? The new RD-33 are smokless, and have a much higher service life and require less maintance than old RD-33's

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I read some where they US developed the F15 Program to counter the Mig 29 due to their better performance then F16.

If US did not think that the Mig29 was worth aircraft , they would not have introduced the F15 program.

What Pakistan needs to analyse is

a) How soon do we need 14 new Air Superiority Strike fighters
Our Block C/D F16 are not due for another 12 month , is that
national security issue, and we will not get another 20 JF17
Thunders till december

Can we manage our defences , untill December?


b) Advantage of getting the 14 Mig-29 Fighters is that we will
juts get these birds -IMMEDIATELY-

i) We can put them in our airforce ad start training pilots
to run them in 20-30 days I am sure , we ca get pilots to
be comfortable with Mig 29 platform


Our Current Airforce fleet will be great for defensive posture , getting
14 Mig29 will enhace our ability to engage fast birds that fly in 2.5
Mac range.

We will just need to fit BVR , missiles on these and these would turn
into a lethal Weapon -


And we do need to prepare fro J11 platform - from china so its logical

 

[Solomon2]

I read some where they US developed the F15 Program to counter the Mig 29 due to their better performance then F16.

No, the MiG 29 wasn't even a glimmer in Russian eyes back then. The premier American fighter of the 1960s, the F-4 Phantom, was a good plane but could be out-flown by good pilots flying MiGs at low altitudes; one of its nicknames was "the Lead Sled".

What prompted the development of the F-15 was the development of the MiG 25 "Foxbat". This large two-engined top-secret plane appeared once at a Moscow parade in 1967 and Western analysts postulated all sorts of amazing capabilities for it. They thought it was some sort of super-fighter and feared that in a few years it would be in mass production and the Soviets would rule the skies. So the brass got Congress to pay for the for the development of the F-15.

Nine years later, after the first F-15s had rolled off production lines, Western analysts got their first look at a MiG 25 when its pilot, Victor Belenko, landed his plane in Japan to defect to the United States. They were shocked: the MiG 25 was a single-purpose aircraft, a high-altitude interceptor built to challenge the canceled B-70 Valkyrie, with poor range and almost no maneuverability. The large size was necessary to house two inefficient and at high output uncontrollable engines and the huge aerodynamic surfaces were needed to control the aircraft at its maximum speed of Mach 3.2, not dogfighting.

In a sense, the primary accomplishment of the MiG 25 was to get the U.S. to build its next-generation fighter several years early.

 

[conworldus]

And we do need to prepare fro J11 platform - from china so its logical

Exporting J-11B will be a complicated one. Even though practically everything has changed, including airframe, electronics, weapons system, engine, radar... but this still touches the intellectual property issue too much because the design principle is still really a Su-27. A nod from Russia is needed for this one.

 

[gambit]

I read some where they US developed the F15 Program to counter the Mig 29 due to their better performance then F16.

If US did not think that the Mig29 was worth aircraft , they would not have introduced the F15 program.

It is amazing to me that despite something called 'The Internet' people are still too lazy to do even basic research.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

F-15 Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
F-16 Fighting Falcon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason why I grouped the F-15, F-16 and the MIG-29 together is because they are within relative range -- first flights -- of each other. That mean their developments, from concepts to first flights, were minimally influenced by each other, with the F-16 the most unique of all. The MIG-25 is the oldest and is correctly pointed out that the -25 prompted the development of the F-15.

The Foxbat is, in my opinion, one of the worst operationally deployed aircraft in military aviation. Even when it is being used in the only way it know how -- high Mach -- the engines are trashed upon landing. Wassup wit dat? The SR-71's engines, and technically speaking there are four per ship, does not need replacement after every high Mach mission. The Foxbat is an embarrassment to Soviet/Russian military aviation.

 

[SBD-3]

But I think Mig-29 was rather a counter to F-16 than F-15 even though initially aimed at an air superiority fighter....the role which was subsequently taken by SU-27. But I would give Russians a fair chance......As we know, most of the russian customers are those airforces which don't enjoy the reputation of being good professional and well trained air forces..............After all, man behind the guns do matter a lot when it comes to combat

 

[ptldM3]

The Foxbat is, in my opinion, one of the worst operationally deployed aircraft in military aviation. Even when it is being used in the only way it know how -- high Mach -- the engines are trashed upon landing.

Mach 2.8 was the aircrafts maximum indicated speed. However, if pushed beyond the recommended parameter, mach 3.2, the engines would need replacement.

Wassup wit dat? The SR-71's engines, and technically speaking there are four per ship, does not need replacement after every high Mach mission. The Foxbat is an embarrassment to Soviet/Russian military aviation.

The space shuttle is an embarrassment to American space exploration, every time one takes off it explodes, Wassup wit dat? when people push the envelope accidents happen, sometimes embarrassment happens, but it's all a learning process.

 

[gambit]

Mach 2.8 was the aircrafts maximum indicated speed. However, if pushed beyond the recommended parameter, mach 3.2, the engines would need replacement.



The space shuttle is an embarrassment to American space exploration, every time one takes off it explodes, Wassup wit dat? when people push the envelope accidents happen, sometimes embarrassment happens, but it's all a learning process.

Do you have even an inkling of how stupid that sounds? Do not try to salvage the MIG-25's reputation. It is a hopeless cause.

 

[ptldM3]

Do you have even an inkling of how stupid that sounds? Do not try to salvage the MIG-25's reputation. It is a hopeless cause.

I'm pretty sure two shuttles exploded The Mig-25 had poor engines, there's nothing to salvage

 

[Red Dwarf]

I don't know what the space shuttles are doing here. Both got destroyed not because of its engines. Challenger is due to faulty primary rocket boosters and other is well known

 

[gambit]

I'm pretty sure two shuttles exploded The Mig-25 had poor engines, there's nothing to salvage

But...But...I thought you said every time one takes off, it explodes.....We should have been out of the space business a long time ago. Instead, the fleet accomplished more for US and the world than the MIG-25 did for its gullible clients. The MIG-25 is an embarrassment for Soviet/Russian aviation and your feeble defense of it an embarrassment to you.

 

[Storm Force]

The mig29 could be useful for DACT training. IF YOU CAN GET THEM CHEAP.

PAF could fly them against THUNDERS/F16/52/J10 and use them as maritime air defense speacial unit.

Having said that India itself has barely 80 mig29 (60 air force) and 16 new mig29k navy. The real meance is 230 su30mki completely different tech level fighter.

ideal PAF should by flankers x 6 or 8 for DACT training

 

[Kompromat]

I doubt that Russians will Sale Mig-35 to PAF.