Is blasphemy a pardonable offense?

[PurpleButcher]

So you are trying to convince us based on what you say (you arent giving references) that the Western hate mongers are right that Prophet went around murdering people for no reason?

And Blasphemy was such a big deal then why spare the Jewish woman throwing garbage on him? That is also blasphemy....harming RELIGIOUS FIGURES...What about the "blasphemy" of urinating in the masjid? Even that was ignored and no harm was done to the man...WHY? Coz prophet doesnt preach hatred nor did he thought us to judge with a quick angered and biased mind! So please mind yourself next time before typing BS coz who knows you are the one doing blasphemy by saying Prophet approved such action!

Hadith mein details mein janay seh pehlay ....QURAN ko samjho and go into details in the Quran instead of relying on hadith jinki ALLAH nay koi promise nai rakhi ...Who knows someone may be poisoning our hadith with such hate speech..Are you a Muhadith? If not then stick to the Quran where ALLAH said it is a book easy to understand! THEN READ IT!

ALLAH says more times in the Quran about HIS mercy over his Wrath why are you like the believers of the old testament who always said stuff like god is angry, jealous god?

Saying something bad about a prophet who is dead is not reason enough to kill someone! Unless your religion is false and cant hold ground or is RADICAL (as the west puts it)...

Why are you overlooking all the passion and love and mercy and peace ...Islam means peace but you are depicting something that is far from peace!

How can saying something bad about prophet harm ANYONE? Seriously, Prophet is dead....No matter what anyone says about HIM will not change what a great man he was when he was alive! Koi gali bhi day day naa tou Prophet ki naiki nai khattam ho jai gi! kiya Islam itna weak hai kay kissi kay kehnay say usko koi Kharash bhi lag sakti hai? Yeh tou insaan ki weakness hai Islam ko mat blame kero!

Kabhi kabhi insaan thora sooch hi layta hai Jo KHUDA jisnay MEDAAN-E-JANG mein kaha agar koi chata hai safety usko safety par lay jao...Madaan-e-jang mein jub damagh khas nai kaam kera hota tub kaha giyea hai nainsaafi naa kerna!

Basically we South Asian Muslims who do not understand arabic and are still idol worshipers. We have made many idols and worship them day in and day out. Quran is a very big idol to us, we kiss it in the morning, before reading,after reading, after Prophet's Name we kiss our hands, on eid milad-ul nabi we act as if Prophet has arrived in our majlis, last year on ary i was watching the live transmission of bahistee darwaza (door to heaven) from some URS....etc... heck i remember my dadi had a 100 year old copy of heer ranjha by waris shah, she used to recite it and kiss it as well

In middle east, of whom i have become a fan as far as their understanding of Islam and Quran is concerned(not their behaviors ) ,you go to a mosque and you will find someone reading Quran, discussing it. In my university the mosque in the center of post graduate housing is the social center, people bring laptops over there, some are discussing projects, some making assignments, some making presentation, some studying Quran, the mosque is a very social place unlike the case of Pakistan.

We seldom try to understand Quran, ponder over the beautiful verses and see their relevance in our daily lives. Since being a Muslim,it is our belief that Allah is the creator, so Quran is the manual of human life. Why should we leave our course book and go for reference books? yes in some cases we can go to references where their is doubt but we have to start from the course book(Quran) first and only venture in reference territories once their is some confusion. But even in that case we must remember that the reference book(Sunnah) is not divine referenced but referenced by fellow humans and there can be discrepancies in it, even the collectors of ahadees mentioned it in their compilations.

Now coming back to the topic, as far as i can comprehend from the total discussion not a single historical evidence has been quoted so far which proves a person was deemed guilty of blasphemy alone, rather in every case, the punished person had committed some other crimes (war,murder etc).

1>Can you @ Zarvan please quote some reference (because there is no such thing like this in Quran as per the discussion here in concerned) where a person was only killed or punished for blasphemy, not for other crimes as well? If not , then i think the case of blasphemy is pretty much over.

2> Can you please tell me that "Is blasphemy pardonable or not"? (with references)

3> Can you please tell me the punishment of it?

The reason why I am asking these questions again is because your previous replies all had persons who were involved in other crimes as well ! and my understanding from listening to the reasoning of Dr. Nauman Ali Khan and Dr. Ghamdi has convinced me that there should be no punishment for blasphemy rather ignore it , bear it patiently and move on.

I quoted some videos on the subject in post 163 page 11.

I am not as knowledgeable in islamic fine details as @Akheilos @TankMan and as you(Zarvan) are but my question is this
1> why was the jewish garbage throwing lady not punished? (an example of a person solely involved in blasphemy)
2>Why holding a Quran by a non muslim can land 25 years imprisonment to that lady and her husband? (please go through the videos on page 163) What sort of a short sighted sick minded law (which is supposedly based on the teaching of Islam) is this?

 

[Dubious]

Basically we South Asian Muslims who do not understand arabic and are still idol worshipers. We have made many idols and worship them day in and day out. Quran is a very big idol to us, we kiss it in the morning, before reading,after reading, after Prophet's Name we kiss our hands, on eid milad-ul nabi we act as if Prophet has arrived in our majlis, last year on ary i was watching the live transmission of bahistee darwaza (door to heaven) from some URS....etc... heck i remember my dadi had a 100 year old copy of heer ranjha by waris shah, she used to recite it and kiss it as well

In middle east, of whom i have become a fan as far as their understanding of Islam and Quran is concerned(not their behaviors ) ,you go to a mosque and you will find someone reading Quran, discussing it. In my university the mosque in the center of post graduate housing is the social center, people bring laptops over there, some are discussing projects, some making assignments, some making presentation, some studying Quran, the mosque is a very social place unlike the case of Pakistan.

We seldom try to understand Quran, ponder over the beautiful verses and see their relevance in our daily lives. Since being a Muslim,it is our belief that Allah is the creator, so Quran is the manual of human life. Why should we leave our course book and go for reference books? yes in some cases we can go to references where their is doubt but we have to start from the course book(Quran) first and only venture in reference territories once their is some confusion. But even in that case we must remember that the reference book(Sunnah) is not divine referenced but referenced by fellow humans and there can be discrepancies in it, even the collectors of ahadees mentioned it in their compilations.

Now coming back to the topic, as far as i can comprehend from the total discussion not a single historical evidence has been quoted so far which proves a person was deemed guilty of blasphemy alone, rather in every case, the punished person had committed some other crimes (war,murder etc).

1>Can you @ Zarvan please quote some reference (because there is no such thing like this in Quran as per the discussion here in concerned) where a person was only killed or punished for blasphemy, not for other crimes as well? If not , then i think the case of blasphemy is pretty much over.

2> Can you please tell me that "Is blasphemy pardonable or not"? (with references)

3> Can you please tell me the punishment of it?

The reason why I am asking these questions again is because your previous replies all had persons who were involved in other crimes as well ! and my understanding from listening to the reasoning of Dr. Nauman Ali Khan and Dr. Ghamdi has convinced me that there should be no punishment for blasphemy rather ignore it , bear it patiently and move on.

I quoted some videos on the subject in post 163 page 11.

I am not as knowledgeable in islamic fine details as @Akheilos @TankMan and as you(Zarvan) are but my question is this
1> why was the jewish garbage throwing lady not punished? (an example of a person solely involved in blasphemy)
2>Why holding a Quran by a non muslim can land 25 years imprisonment to that lady and her husband? (please go through the videos on page 163) What sort of a short sighted sick minded law (which is supposedly based on the teaching of Islam) is this?

Thank you

But I am still learning and have a long way to go ....

I think most people lack patience that is why they jump to punishment!

Rest of the post is amazing regarding the masjid being a social area (how it was during the prophet's time)

Sadly in Pakistan many masjids dont even allow women to enter which hence making many suppress the women even further....it is purely disgusting esp when women are going to DIRECTLY influence the next generation as mothers...

 

[TankMan]

@TankMan and @Akheilos Sorry but you are completely wrong context of ayats those two were killed for Blasphemy there were other leaders to taken prisnoers but only those two were killed on Fatah Makkah one poet and hos slave girl were killed for Blasphemy than a Blind Sahabi killed his own slave girl for abusing HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW approved the action and than we all know munafiq and jew story Munafiq only refused to accep a decision and was killed and there are few more incidents to

Mere bhai, what did I say to you? I said I have given the context, I have given the Surah and Ayat number, look up that Surah and give me a reference from there to show I am wrong.
Or are you like those molvis who don't bother explaining and just say stuff and everyone is supposed to follow them?

Look, Allah himself has said that the Quran is meant to be guidance for us. Then why don't you use the Quran as guidance here (as I have done) to prove me wrong? Why should I take your word if you can't back it up with reference from the Quran?

I could be wrong, sure, I am human too and like all humans I make mistakes. If I am wrong, it should be easy for you to quote the Quran and prove that I am wrong and that I have taken ayats out of context. Otherwise, how are we supposed to be convinced?

Basically we South Asian Muslims who do not understand arabic and are still idol worshipers. We have made many idols and worship them day in and day out. Quran is a very big idol to us, we kiss it in the morning, before reading,after reading, after Prophet's Name we kiss our hands, on eid milad-ul nabi we act as if Prophet has arrived in our majlis, last year on ary i was watching the live transmission of bahistee darwaza (door to heaven) from some URS....etc... heck i remember my dadi had a 100 year old copy of heer ranjha by waris shah, she used to recite it and kiss it as well

In middle east, of whom i have become a fan as far as their understanding of Islam and Quran is concerned(not their behaviors ) ,you go to a mosque and you will find someone reading Quran, discussing it. In my university the mosque in the center of post graduate housing is the social center, people bring laptops over there, some are discussing projects, some making assignments, some making presentation, some studying Quran, the mosque is a very social place unlike the case of Pakistan.

We seldom try to understand Quran, ponder over the beautiful verses and see their relevance in our daily lives. Since being a Muslim,it is our belief that Allah is the creator, so Quran is the manual of human life. Why should we leave our course book and go for reference books? yes in some cases we can go to references where their is doubt but we have to start from the course book(Quran) first and only venture in reference territories once their is some confusion. But even in that case we must remember that the reference book(Sunnah) is not divine referenced but referenced by fellow humans and there can be discrepancies in it, even the collectors of ahadees mentioned it in their compilations.

Now coming back to the topic, as far as i can comprehend from the total discussion not a single historical evidence has been quoted so far which proves a person was deemed guilty of blasphemy alone, rather in every case, the punished person had committed some other crimes (war,murder etc).

1>Can you @ Zarvan please quote some reference (because there is no such thing like this in Quran as per the discussion here in concerned) where a person was only killed or punished for blasphemy, not for other crimes as well? If not , then i think the case of blasphemy is pretty much over.

2> Can you please tell me that "Is blasphemy pardonable or not"? (with references)

3> Can you please tell me the punishment of it?

The reason why I am asking these questions again is because your previous replies all had persons who were involved in other crimes as well ! and my understanding from listening to the reasoning of Dr. Nauman Ali Khan and Dr. Ghamdi has convinced me that there should be no punishment for blasphemy rather ignore it , bear it patiently and move on.

I quoted some videos on the subject in post 163 page 11.

I am not as knowledgeable in islamic fine details as @Akheilos @TankMan and as you(Zarvan) are but my question is this
1> why was the jewish garbage throwing lady not punished? (an example of a person solely involved in blasphemy)
2>Why holding a Quran by a non muslim can land 25 years imprisonment to that lady and her husband? (please go through the videos on page 163) What sort of a short sighted sick minded law (which is supposedly based on the teaching of Islam) is this?

You are right, to an extent. The issue is that we have made religion ritualistic and have become crazy over the 'peripheral elements' (things like zikr and urs and all those rituals and practices) and forgotten the core elements (serving humanity, unity, integrity, reason, logic, knowledge).

This was the reason prophets were sent every few hundred years, to renew the message and to bring people closer to the core. Otherwise, the Jews and Christians for example, did the exact same thing we Muslims are doing now - they divided into sects (like the Protestant-Catholic divide with Christians and now the Shia-Sunni divide with us), they had saints and 'idols' (like we have darbars and saints nowadays), they fought among eachother over these issues, forgot the core elements of religion, got divided and eventually, their religion became irrelevant - In the west, majority of people don't care about it anymore.

So, one by one we are ticking the 'kafir checklist'.

God sent prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) to renew the message of Hazrat Isa and all the prophets before him (starting from Ibrahim, which is why we call them 'Abrahamic religions') but now, no Prophet is coming - we need to solve our problems ourselves.

To answer your questions,

1>Can you @ Zarvan please quote some reference (because there is no such thing like this in Quran as per the discussion here in concerned) where a person was only killed or punished for blasphemy, not for other crimes as well? If not , then i think the case of blasphemy is pretty much over.

2> Can you please tell me that "Is blasphemy pardonable or not"? (with references)
3> Can you please tell me the punishment of it?

The reason why I am asking these questions again is because your previous replies all had persons who were involved in other crimes as well ! and my understanding from listening to the reasoning of Dr. Nauman Ali Khan and Dr. Ghamdi has convinced me that there should be no punishment for blasphemy rather ignore it , bear it patiently and move on.

I understand that your question is to @Zarvan but i'll try anyways.
You are right about all this, there is no punishment for blasphemy as per the Quran. Muslims are clearly instructed to ignore the ignorant - at most, we can try to enlighten them and give them a chance to repent, but if they still continue blasphemous acts, we are supposed to leave them to Allah.

''And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance.
And leave Me with [the matter of] the deniers, those of ease [in life], and allow them respite a little.'' - [Al-Muzzammil 73:10-11]

''They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.'' [At-Tawbah 9:74]

However, since blasphemy would insult people's religious sentiments, I am in favour of having a law similar to western hate-speech laws, with a fine or community service or something similar as a punishment for blasphemy - that would be proportionate. Anything more would not.

"And if you punished, let your punishment be proportionate to the wrong that has been done to you; but if you show patience, that is indeed the best course''. [An-Nah'l 16:126]

2>Why holding a Quran by a non muslim can land 25 years imprisonment to that lady and her husband? (please go through the videos on page 163) What sort of a short sighted sick minded law (which is supposedly based on the teaching of Islam) is this?

That part, especially, is seriously retarded. How are non-Muslims supposed to convert if they can't even touch the Quran? And how on Earth is it proportionate to give twenty five years' jail time for touching a book?
That law is in direct violation of the Quran, thus, it is not based on Islam and is in no way Islamic.

"And if you punished, let your punishment be proportionate to the wrong that has been done to you; but if you show patience, that is indeed the best course''. [An-Nah'l 16:126]

You don't need to be a follower of Dr.Ghamdi or anyone to see how retarded that law is - its a shame we have maulvis brainwashing people into agreeing with those kinds of laws, they are the cancer among Muslims, they are the reason we are behind, they are the reason we are breaking apart - and it is our fault for not stopping them.

How can saying something bad about prophet harm ANYONE? Seriously, Prophet is dead....No matter what anyone says about HIM will not change what a great man he was when he was alive! Koi gali bhi day day naa tou Prophet ki naiki nai khattam ho jai gi! kiya Islam itna weak hai kay kissi kay kehnay say usko koi Kharash bhi lag sakti hai? Yeh tou insaan ki weakness hai Islam ko mat blame kero!

Kabhi kabhi insaan thora sooch hi layta hai Jo KHUDA jisnay MEDAAN-E-JANG mein kaha agar koi chata hai safety usko safety par lay jao...Madaan-e-jang mein jub damagh khas nai kaam kera hota tub kaha giyea hai nainsaafi naa kerna!

Well said.
Islam is actually a very logical religion, If you look at it and study it with an open and logical mind you will see the beautifully reasonable and logical it is - I can not believe that it would be so illogical as to order death as an answer to insult, which, as I have proven using the Quran, it does not.

 

[Zarvan]

Mere bhai, what did I say to you? I said I have given the context, I have given the Surah and Ayat number, look up that Surah and give me a reference from there to show I am wrong.
Or are you like those molvis who don't bother explaining and just say stuff and everyone is supposed to follow them?

Look, Allah himself has said that the Quran is meant to be guidance for us. Then why don't you use the Quran as guidance here (as I have done) to prove me wrong? Why should I take your word if you can't back it up with reference from the Quran?

I could be wrong, sure, I am human too and like all humans I make mistakes. If I am wrong, it should be easy for you to quote the Quran and prove that I am wrong and that I have taken ayats out of context. Otherwise, how are we supposed to be convinced?



You are right, to an extent. The issue is that we have made religion ritualistic and have become crazy over the 'peripheral elements' (things like zikr and urs and all those rituals and practices) and forgotten the core elements (serving humanity, unity, integrity, reason, logic, knowledge).

This was the reason prophets were sent every few hundred years, to renew the message and to bring people closer to the core. Otherwise, the Jews and Christians for example, did the exact same thing we Muslims are doing now - they divided into sects (like the Protestant-Catholic divide with Christians and now the Shia-Sunni divide with us), they had saints and 'idols' (like we have darbars and saints nowadays), they fought among eachother over these issues, forgot the core elements of religion, got divided and eventually, their religion became irrelevant - In the west, majority of people don't care about it anymore.

So, one by one we are ticking the 'kafir checklist'.

God sent prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) to renew the message of Hazrat Isa and all the prophets before him (starting from Ibrahim, which is why we call them 'Abrahamic religions') but now, no Prophet is coming - we need to solve our problems ourselves.

To answer your questions,

I understand that your question is to @Zarvan but i'll try anyways.
You are right about all this, there is no punishment for blasphemy as per the Quran. Muslims are clearly instructed to ignore the ignorant - at most, we can try to enlighten them and give them a chance to repent, but if they still continue blasphemous acts, we are supposed to leave them to Allah.


However, since blasphemy would insult people's religious sentiments, I am in favour of having a law similar to western hate-speech laws, with a fine or community service or something similar as a punishment for blasphemy - that would be proportionate. Anything more would not.



That part, especially, is seriously retarded. How are non-Muslims supposed to convert if they can't even touch the Quran? And how on Earth is it proportionate to give twenty five years' jail time for touching a book?
That law is in direct violation of the Quran, thus, it is not based on Islam and is in no way Islamic.



You don't need to be a follower of Dr.Ghamdi or anyone to see how retarded that law is - its a shame we have maulvis brainwashing people into agreeing with those kinds of laws, they are the cancer among Muslims, they are the reason we are behind, they are the reason we are breaking apart - and it is our fault for not stopping them.


Well said.
Islam is actually a very logical religion, If you look at it and study it with an open and logical mind you will see the beautifully reasonable and logical it is - I can not believe that it would be so illogical as to order death as an answer to insult, which, as I have proven using the Quran, it does not.

@Akheilos 4 Caliphs new that HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW have died but even in there time those who abused or did Blasphemy were eliminated its agreed matter also among 4 Fiqhs of Imam @TankMan From context I mean the event or situation to which an ayat was revealed ayats were revealed on different events and situation and you are not telling that read Tafseers and books of Hadees you will know them and I would soon give the list of all those who were killed for Blasphemy on order of RASOOL SAW @PurpleButcher

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos 4 Caliphs new that HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW have died but even in there time those who abused or did Blasphemy were eliminated its agreed matter also among 4 Fiqhs of Imam @TankMan From context I mean the event or situation to which an ayat was revealed ayats were revealed on different events and situation and you are not telling that read Tafseers and books of Hadees you will know them and I would soon give the list of all those who were killed for Blasphemy on order of RASOOL SAW @PurpleButcher

Can you also trace WHAT OTHER CRIMES those killed did...

And why are you insisting from the hadith when all 3 of us showed you from the QURAN! Is the Quran wrong? Or are hadith much more authentic than the Quran?

 

[TankMan]

@Akheilos 4 Caliphs new that HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW have died but even in there time those who abused or did Blasphemy were eliminated its agreed matter also among 4 Fiqhs of Imam @TankMan From context I mean the event or situation to which an ayat was revealed ayats were revealed on different events and situation and you are not telling that read Tafseers and books of Hadees you will know them and I would soon give the list of all those who were killed for Blasphemy on order of RASOOL SAW @PurpleButcher

Good lord.
4 Caliphs did not kill people for blasphemy.
The 4 fiqhs are worthless if they contradict the Quran ( I don't think they do, but you're saying so here, so lets go with your logic). The Quran is the absolute highest authority. When It says something, no Imam has the authority to challenge them.

As for the situation in which verses were revealed,
Surah At-Tawbah (I quoted verse 74 from it) was revealed at the time of the Battle of Tabuk, it is one of the last Madani surats. It makes it clear that blasphemers and disbelievers have a chance to repent and that we should leave them to Allah.

Surah An-Nahl, which says the punishment must be proportional, was revealed when the prophet was in Makkah.
So we have both a Makki and Madani surah telling us the same thing.

The Quran is a universal guide, so its guidance is universal (unless it is specifically stated in the verses that it is not).
Every other Surah and Ayat I quoted applies to us. The time when it was revealed does not change anything.

The list you gave before, those people were not killed for blasphemy. They were killed for the dozens of other crimes they committed. If they were killed for blasphemy, people like the Jewish woman and the man who urinated in a mosque would have been killed too.

While we were in the masjid with the Messenger of Allaah, a Bedouin came; he then urinated in the masjid.
The Companions of the Messenger of Allaah said, “Mah Mah (An expression used to severly scold someone, to indicate the graveness of a matter).”
The Messenger of Allaah said, “Do not put a halt to his urinating, but instead leave him.”
They left him alone until he finished urinating.
The Messenger of Allaah called him over and said to him, “Any kind of urine or filth is not suitable for these masjids. Instead they are only [appropriate] for the remembrance of Allaah, the Prayer, and the recitation of the Qur’aan,” or this is near to what the Messenger of Allaah said.
He (saw) then issued an order to a man from the people, who then came with a bucket of water, which he poured over the [effected] area [of the masjid].

[Reported by Muslim in his Saheeh, 285]

Another example from Sahih hadith:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 60 :
Narrated by Anas bin Malik
A Jew passed by Allah's Apostle and said, "As-Samu 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle said in reply, "We 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle then said to his companions, "Do you know what he (the Jew) has said? He said, 'As-Samu 'Alaika.'" They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we kill him?" The Prophet, said, "No. When the people of the Book greet you, say: 'Wa 'Alaikum.'"

Another Example:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 61 :
Narrated by 'Aisha
A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet (and when they were admitted) they said, "As-Samu 'Alaika (Death be upon you)." I (Aisha) said (to them), "But death and the curse of Allah be upon you!" The Prophet said, "O 'Aisha! Allah is kind and lenient and likes that one should be kind and lenient in all matters." I (Aisha) said, "Haven't you heard what they said?" He said, "I said (to them), 'Wa 'Alaikum (and upon you).

Clearly, the prophet did not kill blasphemers if their only crime was blasphemy.

 

[Zarvan]

Good lord.
4 Caliphs did not kill people for blasphemy.
The 4 fiqhs are worthless if they contradict the Quran ( I don't think they do, but you're saying so here, so lets go with your logic). The Quran is the absolute highest authority. When It says something, no Imam has the authority to challenge them.

As for the situation in which verses were revealed,
Surah At-Tawbah (I quoted verse 74 from it) was revealed at the time of the Battle of Tabuk, it is one of the last Madani surats. It makes it clear that blasphemers and disbelievers have a chance to repent and that we should leave them to Allah.

Surah An-Nahl, which says the punishment must be proportional, was revealed when the prophet was in Makkah.
So we have both a Makki and Madani surah telling us the same thing.

The Quran is a universal guide, so its guidance is universal (unless it is specifically stated in the verses that it is not).
Every other Surah and Ayat I quoted applies to us. The time when it was revealed does not change anything.

The list you gave before, those people were not killed for blasphemy. They were killed for the dozens of other crimes they committed. If they were killed for blasphemy, people like the Jewish woman and the man who urinated in a mosque would have been killed too.



Another example from Sahih hadith:


Another Example:


Clearly, the prophet did not kill blasphemers if their only crime was blasphemy.

Mr caliphs did kill Mr and RASOOL SAW also ordered murder of few and they were killed for Blasphemy those master and slave girl on Fatah e Makkas were killed solely for Blasphemy couple more were killed on Fatah e Makkah but those were killed for other reasons two Badr prisnoers were also killed for or Blasphemy and I would tell more names tomorrow

 

[TankMan]

Mr caliphs did kill Mr and RASOOL SAW also ordered murder of few and they were killed for Blasphemy those master and slave girl on Fatah e Makkas were killed solely for Blasphemy couple more were killed on Fatah e Makkah but those were killed for other reasons two Badr prisnoers were also killed for or Blasphemy and I would tell more names tomorrow

If the punishment for blasphemy was death, why didn't the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) allow his companions to kill the two groups of Jews who directly insulted him? Why did he forgive the hundreds of blasphemers from Makkah and Taif? Why did he forgive the Bedouin who urinated in a mosque, right infront of him? Why does the Quran command us to ignore blasphemers? Why does the Quran command us to give proportional punishments?

Right now you are denying both the Quran and Sahih Hadiths, and you are not giving any references of your own.

 

[PurpleButcher]

Kindly go through the video from 1:30 onwads...Dr. Ghamdi makes a logical point that blasphemy cannot be applied to a non muslim since he/she is already committing shirk which is even a bigger sin, and when the bigger sin has no wordly punishment than why should we give punishement in this world for a smaller sin according to Imam Hanafi.

Secondly my brother @Zarvan, i am not as knowledgeable as you are, so I humbly ask when you are saying you will quote from tafseers and ahadees does it mean that you are implying that in the first line of defence i.e., Quran, you are unable to find a compelling evidence for your claim?

Thirdly, my brother, if there is evidence contrary to your claim in Quran, then what do you suggest must be followed? Quran, or ahadees collected by "humans" and tafseers written by "humans" ?

Fourthly, my brother, every hindu believes that Quran is a fake book, every hindu believes that Hazrat Muhammad SAW was a fake prophet, so all hindus are committing blasphemy according to you opinion? What is the border of being blasphemous and not being blasphemous?

Fifthly, my brother when a person named Muhammad or Abdullah, commits a crime, or say rapes a girl, should he not be also tried for blasphemy for he disgraced a very graceful Islamic name and consequently Islam by his/her actions? Please my brother tell me the extreme action which doesn't fall under blasphemy ? and the smallest action from where the borders of blasphemy start!

Sixthly, apart from the religious,ethical and legal validity of this law, has this law not been used by the powerful for their vested interests?

Seventhly and lastly, were the children of Taif and the garbage throwing lady killed or forgiven? (No long stories just yes or no)

@ TankMan yes i believe there should be a law on similar patterns of hate speech with fines and also may be with small jail time to stop miscreants from creating violence.

PS:- Zarvan brother,no offence, please I am trying to neutrally learn your point of view, do not take my questions negatively.

 

[Dubious]

Mr caliphs did kill Mr and RASOOL SAW also ordered murder of few and they were killed for Blasphemy those master and slave girl on Fatah e Makkas were killed solely for Blasphemy couple more were killed on Fatah e Makkah but those were killed for other reasons two Badr prisnoers were also killed for or Blasphemy and I would tell more names tomorrow

Why are you taking 1-2 examples from hadith when we are giving from QURAN and ALSO hadith but shouldnt it be like the Imams said if any hadith CONTRADICTS the Quran throw it away! Why are you sticking to hadith that contradicts the Quran? Are you saying Hadith is stronger than Quran? We must follow hadith over quran?

Please try to be logical! Quran is the SUPREME authority NOTHING not a single hadith can be held higher than the verses of the Quran!

 

[jaunty]

As an Islamic state Pakistan has the obligation to protect Islam. The blasphemy law is the only way to ensure that. Blasphemy is not pardonable.

 

[A.Rafay]

As an Islamic state Pakistan has the obligation to protect Islam. The blasphemy law is the only way to ensure that. Blasphemy is not pardonable.

What about obligation to protect minorities? You should advice Pakistan on that too.

 

[TankMan]

The blasphemy law is the only way to ensure that.

No, no it isn't. Islam, as a religion, is too strong to be damaged by blasphemy - the blasphemy law is actually counter productive because it ruins Islam's image, despite not even being part of Islam (as I have proven in my previous posts with references from the Quran and Hadith).
From an Islamic point of view, blasphemy is pardonable.

 

[Zarvan]

If the punishment for blasphemy was death, why didn't the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) allow his companions to kill the two groups of Jews who directly insulted him? Why did he forgive the hundreds of blasphemers from Makkah and Taif? Why did he forgive the Bedouin who urinated in a mosque, right infront of him? Why does the Quran command us to ignore blasphemers? Why does the Quran command us to give proportional punishments?

Right now you are denying both the Quran and Sahih Hadiths, and you are not giving any references of your own.

First in Makkah there was no order for RASOOL SAW to hit back but in Madinah when Jihad was allowed many people were eliminated for Blasphemy mate and those I have given examples of were solely killed for this crime and in time of 4 Caliphs few were killed in fact in one incident a man came and abused HAZRAT ABU BAKAR RA he was caliph at that time some one asked permission to kill that man he said no this punishment is reserved solely for one who abuses RASOOL SAW

 

[jaunty]

What about obligation to protect minorities? You should advice Pakistan on that too.

There is no such obligation. You should impose jizya on them. Ask zarvan for more on this.