Is blasphemy a pardonable offense?

[Zarvan]

Why are you taking 1-2 examples from hadith when we are giving from QURAN and ALSO hadith but shouldnt it be like the Imams said if any hadith CONTRADICTS the Quran throw it away! Why are you sticking to hadith that contradicts the Quran? Are you saying Hadith is stronger than Quran? We must follow hadith over quran?

Please try to be logical! Quran is the SUPREME authority NOTHING not a single hadith can be held higher than the verses of the Quran!

No they can't be thrown and you are quoting ayats with completely wrong context bro other wise no contradiction punishment of death is agreed by all Sahabas was given in life of RASOOL SAW and than in time of 4 Caliphs and agreed by all 4 Imams of Fiqh and great work was done by Ibn Tamiyah also

 

[PurpleButcher]

First in Makkah there was no order for RASOOL SAW to hit back but in Madinah when Jihad was allowed many people were eliminated for Blasphemy mate and those I have given examples of were solely killed for this crime and in time of 4 Caliphs few were killed in fact in one incident a man came and abused HAZRAT ABU BAKAR RA he was caliph at that time some one asked permission to kill that man he said no this punishment is reserved solely for one who abuses RASOOL SAW

My brother please also reply to my questions.

As an Islamic state Pakistan has the obligation to protect Islam. The blasphemy law is the only way to ensure that. Blasphemy is not pardonable.

tussi luch daal lo ... ithay changi bhali garma garmi chaldi paee hai...

Khair , Islamic state has the obligation to
> ensure no one stops a muslims from performing his or her religious activities
> The white part in our flag is supposed to ensure the same for non muslims

But the sad reality is our state (meaning our society/nation) has failed to fulfill its obligations to both Muslims and Non Muslims.

 

[Dubious]

As an Islamic state Pakistan has the obligation to protect Islam. The blasphemy law is the only way to ensure that. Blasphemy is not pardonable.

There is no such obligation. You should impose jizya on them. Ask zarvan for more on this.

Dont feed trolls report them!

 

[Zarvan]

There is no such obligation. You should impose jizya on them. Ask zarvan for more on this.

Which dumbo told you that in Islam minorities has to be protected by state including there places of worship and they have full liberty to practise there faith and Jizya is a tax which is taken from them and in return state provides them full protection and facilities and other than President or Head of state they can get any job if qualified for that @A.Rafay read this before commenting

 

[Dubious]

No they can't be thrown and you are quoting ayats with completely wrong context bro other wise no contradiction punishment of death is agreed by all Sahabas was given in life of RASOOL SAW and than in time of 4 Caliphs and agreed by all 4 Imams of Fiqh and great work was done by Ibn Tamiyah also

Give me the context because as far as I am concerned I am taking them from a scholar (one who has studied the subject and has a DEGREE in it) not an anonymous PDF poster!

 

[A.Rafay]

There is no such obligation. You should impose jizya on them. Ask zarvan for more on this.

There is such obligation, but zarvan only talks of what suits his "mullahs" interests best.
Imposing illegal tax "jizya" on minority, majority of whom are poor. While the majority pays no taxes is absurd.

 

[Dubious]

There is no such obligation. You should impose jizya on them. Ask zarvan for more on this.

Sorry Pakistan doesnt follow that which India did or does...Keep it in your borders!

You dont even know what is jizya just that the moghuls drilled in soo much fear you just repeat how they abused you lot and call it Islam...

You were ignorant back then (had you studied their religion back then you could have challenged them) and you are still ignorant right now ...Some people never learn

 

[PurpleButcher]

No they can't be thrown and you are quoting ayats with completely wrong context bro other wise no contradiction punishment of death is agreed by all Sahabas was given in life of RASOOL SAW and than in time of 4 Caliphs and agreed by all 4 Imams of Fiqh and great work was done by Ibn Tamiyah also

Brother if you go through post 163 the video by Ghamdi, it is clearly mentioned that all 4 Imams of Fiqh considered
>blasphemy as part of Irtidad. So it is unapplicable on non Muslims.
>the question of witness is useless in case of blasphemy. Blasphemy can be considered only when the person openly declares a blasphemous thing repeatedly. It cannot be considered on the basis of some witnesses
>even after open acceptance from the muslim blasphemous person, he is given a certain time period for repentance.

So brother please clear me how you are saying the 4 Imams of Fiqh have agreed on blasphemy?

 

[TankMan]

First in Makkah there was no order for RASOOL SAW to hit back but in Madinah when Jihad was allowed many people were eliminated for Blasphemy

The order for Jihad did not over-rule the orders for justice and proportionality. In fact, the Madani verses I quoted in my previous post were revealed long after the order for Jihad. Again, you are wrong.

I have given examples of were solely killed for this crime

No, you have not. In every example you gave, they were guilty of a lot more than just blasphemy.

in fact in one incident a man came and abused HAZRAT ABU BAKAR RA he was caliph at that time some one asked permission to kill that man he said no this punishment is reserved solely for one who abuses RASOOL SAW

Source for this incident? Is it a Sahih Hadith? Who narrated it?
This is contradicting the Quran, because according to Surah al Ma'idah verse 32, the death penalty is allowed in only two cases:
1)As a punishment for murder
2)For spreading corruption in the land.
It is debatable if this corruption includes blasphemy or not, but according to Surah At-Tawbah verse 74, Surah Al Qasas verse 55, Surah Al Muzzammil verse 10 and Surah Al A'raaf verse 199 (which I have quoted multiple times before), blasphemy is to be ignored, thus it is not included in the corruption.

''Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely...'' [al Ma'idah 5:32]

And you have not answered any of my questions.
If the penalty for blasphemy is death:
Why didn't the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) allow his companions to kill the two groups of Jews who directly insulted him?
Why did he forgive the hundreds of blasphemers from Makkah and Taif?
Why did he forgive the Bedouin who urinated in a mosque, right infront of him?
Why does the Quran command us to ignore blasphemers?
Why does the Quran command us to give proportional punishments?

 

[Zarvan]

Brother if you go through post 163 the video by Ghamdi, it is clearly mentioned that all 4 Imams of Fiqh considered
>blasphemy as part of Irtidad. So it is unapplicable on non Muslims.
>the question of witness is useless in case of blasphemy. Blasphemy can be considered only when the person openly declares a blasphemous thing repeatedly. It cannot be considered on the basis of some witnesses
>even after open acceptance from the muslim blasphemous person, he is given a certain time period for repentance.

So brother please clear me how you are saying the 4 Imams of Fiqh have agreed on blasphemy?

Stop quoting lies of this fraud Ghamidi and if you want to defend him than first know this fraud Ghamidi when he first started his work in late 70s and early 80s he started his work with his friend and that man is still his friend and that man is my fathet

 

[Dubious]

@Zarvan Abu Lahab wasnt executed...His punishment was given in the Quran while still being alive...there was no verse to kill him but verses what ALLAH has waiting for him!

MANY of the mekkans after committing blasphemy (stoning the prophet) converted to Islam....Had they been killed upon prophet's return they would not have the chance to repent and convert! So again you are wrong...

If YOU think Islam was preaching hatred and mass butchering then I am sorry you came to the wrong religion...

For those who still think the infamous blasphemy law is Islamic, they should re-visit Islamic history and see on that day when Mecca was down on its knees, Prophet Muhammad had all the chance to take revenge from each and every living being in that city. If blasphemy law was Islamic, the Mecca should have had been bathing in blood. The truth is death penalties have never been common in Islam.

The actions and decisions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) on that day clearly showed the world that he was a very wise intellectual and what he did on that day was justice to those who were wronged by these individuals mentioned above.

 

[TankMan]

No they can't be thrown and you are quoting ayats with completely wrong context

As I have proven many times before, we are not quoting ayats out of context. Those ayats are completely applicable to this context.

Stop quoting lies of this fraud Ghamidi and if you want to defend him than first know this fraud Ghamidi when he first started his work in late 70s and early 80s he started his work with his friend and that man is still his friend and that man is my fathet

Ghamdi has quoted the Quran when making these claims, and authentic hadiths. His reasoning is backed by the Quran.
If you're calling Ghamdi a fraud and liar based on his statements here, you are also saying that the Quran is a fraud and lie. Astaghfirullah.

 

[Dubious]

Stop quoting lies of this fraud Ghamidi and if you want to defend him than first know this fraud Ghamidi when he first started his work in late 70s and early 80s he started his work with his friend and that man is still his friend and that man is my fathet

So your father is a friend of a "fraud" what fraud did he do?

You see keeping grudges and preaching hatred is not part of Islam...the day you find peace will be the day you are in Islam and that day you will realize WHAT ISLAM is about...

It def is not about hating, spitting, killing and sinning! It is about HOW TO LIVE ON THIS EARTH IN HARMONY!

Quran said IF ALLAH wanted everyone to be Muslim than HE could have but HE didnt...so you have no rights to kill someone when ALLAH has allowed that person to live on HIS earth however he wants!

 

[PurpleButcher]

Stop quoting lies of this fraud Ghamidi and if you want to defend him than first know this fraud Ghamidi when he first started his work in late 70s and early 80s he started his work with his friend and that man is still his friend and that man is my fathet

ok meray bhai shoot the messenger if you do not like him.... but please answer my questions...

and meray bhai please enlighten me with your vast knowledge why ghamdi's quotes were wrong, why he is a fraud?

PS:- I find ghamdi, dr. Israr, Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat the only decent and logical Islamic scholars whether you like it or not

 

[Zarvan]

The order for Jihad did not over-rule the orders for justice and proportionality. In fact, the Madani verses I quoted in my previous post were revealed long after the order for Jihad. Again, you are wrong.


No, you have not. In every example you gave, they were guilty of a lot more than just blasphemy.


Source for this incident? Is it a Sahih Hadith? Who narrated it?
This is contradicting the Quran, because according to Surah al Ma'idah verse 32, the death penalty is allowed in only two cases:
1)As a punishment for murder
2)For spreading corruption in the land.
It is debatable if this corruption includes blasphemy or not, but according to Surah At-Tawbah verse 74, Surah Al Qasas verse 55, Surah Al Muzzammil verse 10 and Surah Al A'raaf verse 199 (which I have quoted multiple times before), blasphemy is to be ignored, thus it is not included in the corruption.


And you have not answered any of my questions.
If the penalty for blasphemy is death:
Why didn't the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) allow his companions to kill the two groups of Jews who directly insulted him?
Why did he forgive the hundreds of blasphemers from Makkah and Taif?
Why did he forgive the Bedouin who urinated in a mosque, right infront of him?
Why does the Quran command us to ignore blasphemers?
Why does the Quran command us to give proportional punishments?

Mr they were killed solely for Blasphemy weather those two Badr prisoners or Fatah Makkah master and slave girl and even Jewish leader Kaab and your other answers will be given soon @Akheilos I have never said a person who is from other faith should be killed just because he is from other faith