TheImmortal
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I like to think I’m somewhat bright Dr Meson
I did not say that Manteghi said that, I said that he used a picture of AL-31 taken directly from web.
I said analysis by those here and on social media said that Iran is targeting an AL-31 class engine. I did not say Manteghi said that.
Did he actually say we are going to make AL-31? Quote his exact words if you can.
If he did not then the picture is open to interpretation. How many times have we seen models of other foreign products throughout Iran’s armed forces?
You cannot “steal” AL-31 like it’s a jewel from a museum. Even the Iranian who got caught trying to take F-35 engine tech out of US only had blueprints of the physical design. He did not have details on engine computer or the algorithm that powers the entire engine, which you can physically make a 1 for 1 copy of anything you want, but if you cannot match the coding and algorithms of the onboard computer then you won’t match performance or possibly even have the system work.
No I said you were paddling the idea of AL-31 on Kowsar (wether Russian or Iranian ToT was irrelevant) my comment still stands, you are naive if you think Russia is handing AL-31 physically or it’s ToT to Iran. Either one is highly unlikely.
I too have made the same assertions as you that ToT of AL-31 would be amazing (use the search function to see) this was before Manteghi’s presentation. But I admitted it was merely a wishlist item.
I will repeat again, Wether it’s Russian supplied AL-31 or Russian supplied ToT of AL-31 Iranian variant is the same when I made the comment. I was not claiming you said only Russian engines. I said both probabilities are unlikely. The latter (ToT) is even more unlikely.
I ask you again, you claim that Pantsir was delivered to Iran. It has not. Show me proof. Show me a single picture in last 10 years of Iranian Pantsir at a parade, war game, etc.
It doesn’t exist! Western sources claim Iran bought Pantsir systems in 2012! How can a system be missing for 10 years? Because they confused our purchase with Syria!
“some turbofan”. You are talking about THE best Russian engine produced in last 20 years. Only engine greater is AL-41 found in SU-57.
No country gives away its prized jet engine tech to anyone. Period. Comparing it to OTH radar or selling an ECW jammer is not remotely the same thing. Why is this shocking to you?
I asked you for proof of this occurring in last 20 years and you came back with zero results and just more opinions on relations of Iran-Russia.
China still does not have AL-31 tech neither does India. Both have much more significant arms relations with Russia than Iran does. Both would love it.
So why is Iran different? Because we sold them some drones? Why? India is buying boatloads of their oil and so is China, both are assisting Russia War machine in different ways.
It never shares its premier engine tech with anyone either. Can you show an example it has? I’m still waiting. So why doesn’t this get added to your list? Because of Ukraine war? Come on
It knows Iran couldn’t reverse engineer it. Neither can Pakistan. 20 years later, no Iranian RD-33. Would have made more sense to reverse engineer a RD-33 than building Owj.
This is an opinion. We are “strategic allies”? Is that why Russia offered Turkey a NATO country S-400 and delivered it promptly? While we waited what 10 years to see our S-300 and had to go to court to get it?
Is that why Russia openly said it would sell SU-57 to Turkey and help on its TFX program when it doesn’t even acknowledge the sale of SU-35 to Iran? Only Iranian officials have mentioned it.
We are far from strategic allies. And IF we are strategic Allies that can get their best engine tech handed over then we can get their ECM, air defense systems, and best A2A missiles as well. It’s not a one or another type logic game you get to play by saying times have changed, but only for this product lol.
Turkey, NATO member with US nukes on its soil, has killed Russian soldiers (indirectly and directly) and gets offered the latest in Russian weaponry. Your logic doesn’t hold.
Even IRIAF official poured cold water on SU-35 just recently.
So your analysis is just an opinion. You are inferring that Russia’s desperation for arms and weapons means it’s a sign of strategic shift and we will get ToT on SU-35. That’s a huge leap in logic. One that everyone here is waiting to see the results of.
Israel also sold Iran weapons during Iran-Iraq war and US supplied Iran weapons. Does that mean there was a strategic shift in relations with those countries? No of course not. Countries by weapons from anyone that sells during war. War is business.
It operates S-400, as a major NATO member, a system not in Iranian possession.
So what do you define as “never been a Russian client”?
Manteghi going to Google and copy and pasting a literal picture of Russian AL-31 and throwing it on his slide is “google info”.
We are still waiting for results of this “change”. First everyone said the arms ban lift would bring “change” then we got zero weapons during that time, despite our Chief of Staff going over there and saying we signed “deals”.
Now we all hope (including me btw) us selling them some drones and ammo would bring “change”. This is all hope at this point. It’s not lack of trying on Iran’s part. Russia has yet to reciprocate.
Meanwhile if Turkey asked Russia for Su-57 the production lines would be opened up.
And where is proof of what we got? It’s been 1.5 years since the war started and they “isolation”. Meanwhile we are reportedly agreeing with US to not sell them BMs. Is that something a strategic ally would do?
If jet engine tech is not a premier tech then why did it take so long for China to build a rival class engine and get it working? A country that has magnitudes higher the industrial/scientific base and funding than Iran.
How many countries in the world can serial mass produce reliable high performance fighter jet engines from scratch? You can probably count on one hand.
Making one J-700 is not the same as serial mass production. Serial mass production at a consistent performance and economic cost is what matters. Look how long it took China to fix the performance issues in its various WS engines. Yet they are still using AL-31’s and were installing them in J-20’s until Recently.
Iran had to pivot from soumar because the engine was too expensive and matching Russian performance was not worth it.
So again, since J-700 has been revealed how many have we seen produced? What are its performance characteristics? What are its problems? What is it costs? What platform uses it in large number?
It could take Iran 10 years to mass produce J-700 reliably and cost effectively. Or it could take 2 years. We don’t know. We are just speculating.
For example any country can unveil a missile, but how many of them can build at the performance level and consistency and cost as Iran can? If Saudi Arabia or Turkey tommorrow unveiled one BM in the Emad class would we say that they can now build 1000s at the same cost/performance level like Iran can? Of course not. It might take them 20 years to reach us.
So then your “analysis” that F-5 has a 1m2 cross section is irrelevant since it will never be flying “clean”.
So what is your estimation of RCS of F-5 with drop tanks and armaments? Frontal? Side? Worst case? Best case?
And you have yet to present a counter claim of what F-5’s RCS is from different angles and loaded. You have claimed frontal 1m2 clean (no tanks no armament). Which if correct is irrelevant since the F-5 will neither be frontal attacking at all times nor it will be clean.
F-18 is quoted clean. Fully loaded, care to guess what the RCS is? You are the master at google. Go and see.
When was the last time US airforce fought a near peer adversary in field of air defense?
Even Syria managed to hit a Israeli F-16 (masters of ECW) with a freaking S-200.
So you have no aerospace or mechanical engineering background like some other users on here had/have, correct?
So your inference of feasibility of certain projects is merely conjecture and opinion just like mine. Hence why I said you are military enthusiast.
