IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

that was hamaseh not fotros

Completely missed the point. Nice job.

IRGC vs Army comparison is like comparing bag of apples to an orange.

More like Microsoft to your local computer store. Artesh just doesn’t get enough funding and also doesn’t get the best engineers and scientists like IRGC backed defense industries do.

Competition is good. Allows for innovation. Samsung pushes Apple to develop better products and vice versa.

Thus Artesh should also get enough r&d funding to be able to compete innovation wise with IRGC. Who knows maybe Artesh will make the military equivalent of an IPhone achievement. All it takes is one brilliant mind with a vision and funding to make it happen.

When you put all your eggs with one company you get stagnation of design and the stifling of ideas and less appetite to take on risk. You get a bunch of YES men who propose “safe” choices.

 

[drmeson]

IRGC has cleaned up their act. But they still do stupid things.

Who can forget the “COVID detector rod”? Or the Fotros low quality prototype painted in Iranian flag colors with the equivalent of a Rice cooker underneath it.

IRGC also still does propaganda stunts. But for the most part it’s arms industries has drastically improved the quality and presentation and professionalism of its products. The propaganda stunts are due to people like General Salami who are still within the organization. As the old guard continues to retire and move out we will see the new guard transform the image of IRGC.




I try to tell you guys these things, but you don’t listen. You guys rather listen to Baghdad Bob telling you secret planes exist that will overwhelm the enemy during wartime. That Iran is magically hiding it’s fleet of super aircraft and not showing the world.

- Old IRGC generals are not their run organizations. Focus on the word "IRGC led organizations". Their engineers, procurers, and designers have churned out lists of IR/MRBMs, Qassed SLV, MaRVs for both solid and liquid missiles hitting within a CEP of 5 m. Salami or Dehghan are not their engineers and not necessarily represent the discipline their organizations have shown.

- Actually Nobody in this forum believes in any secret plane or whatever you are assuming here again. I do believe there "will be" another Kowsar generation in a few years which will be much more advanced like truly 4+ to 4.5 generation and may incorporate Shafagh experiences. I have my reasons based on R&D logic (I have 14 years of experience in pro R&D in EU, so I may know a thing or two about how projects unfold) and words of people with actual published literature including Tom cooper, Bishop, BT, IISS and others. You are free to keep believing in whatever works.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Completely missed the point. Nice job.



More like Microsoft to your local computer store. Artesh just doesn’t get enough funding and also doesn’t get the best engineers and scientists like IRGC backed defense industries do.

Competition is good. Allows for innovation. Samsung pushes Apple to develop better products and vice versa.

Thus Artesh should also get enough r&d funding to be able to compete innovation wise with IRGC. Who knows maybe Artesh will make the military equivalent of an IPhone achievement. All it takes is one brilliant mind with a vision and funding to make it happen.

When you put all your eggs with one company you get stagnation of design and the stifling of ideas and less appetite to take on risk. You get a bunch of YES men who propose “safe” choices.

Iran bought an airplane which had new design and in it's path of delivery to Iran it got destroyed. years later they named that airplane "queen of skies" yes it was Boeing 747.I wonder if these guys were decision makers of Boeing what would they do to similar projects like 747 ?

 

[TheImmortal]

Poor Iran still using F-14 in 2022

India uses even older fighter jets that would get rocked by an F-14 if it entered the skies. An F-14 today is still very deadly plane, yes it’s not an F-35 or F-22 but it’s on par with a SU-30 in many ways.

Actually Nobody in this forum believes in any secret plane or whatever you are assuming here again.

Again, you should not trust General TheImmortal comments especially on the subject of Iranian combat aircraft.

The Shafaq project has always been active in the background and this project is far from dead. Iran has weapons and secret project not revealed but people here we have a lot of difficulty understanding this.

You will see in the future that was right here.

I believe to withhold judgment instead of being overly optimistic. Apparently that’s a sin on these forums and it’s better to be a fanboy.

 

[drmeson]

India uses even older fighter jets that would get rocked by an F-14 if it entered the skies. An F-14 today is still very deadly plane, yes it’s not an F-35 or F-22 but it’s on par with a SU-30 in many ways.







I believe to withhold judgment instead of being overly optimistic. Apparently that’s a sin on these forums and it’s better to be a fanboy.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here. This is one person among some two dozen Iranian members here. And he merely said that Shafagh is not dead which in some way "could be" true. When professors of a research university get involved in the project as it happened in Shafagh's case (Malek Ashtar University), the project never dies but keeps on modifying because students trained by those professors take up that project and keep on evolving it for the sake of their own careers. The crop of those students are now working in Gaint IAIO which has some 11000 employees across Iran with a budget in Billions of USD. Until we see the ultimate end product of this Azarakhsh=>Saeghe=>Kowsar lineage or if Qaher ever flies, we can't be sure what Shafagh/M-ATF design from Mukhamedov OKB gave to Iranian aviation engineering minds. Read this post of mine about possibilities in the future. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iriaf-news-and-discussions.358559/page-495#post-13831787

Again, I am trained to think this way. So I may think differently from people like you who were calling Kowsar a 1960s plane without even realizing the fact that avionics and subsystems wise it is currently the most advanced aircraft we have in IRIAF (except F-14 AM) including Soviet 9.12 MIGs. Its future generation might even get rid of entire IRIAF relics and save the lives of our pilots.

 

[jauk]

Completely missed the point. Nice job.



More like Microsoft to your local computer store. Artesh just doesn’t get enough funding and also doesn’t get the best engineers and scientists like IRGC backed defense industries do.

Competition is good. Allows for innovation. Samsung pushes Apple to develop better products and vice versa.

Thus Artesh should also get enough r&d funding to be able to compete innovation wise with IRGC. Who knows maybe Artesh will make the military equivalent of an IPhone achievement. All it takes is one brilliant mind with a vision and funding to make it happen.

When you put all your eggs with one company you get stagnation of design and the stifling of ideas and less appetite to take on risk. You get a bunch of YES men who propose “safe” choices.

Competition is great but not the self demolition of ideas. Please stop parroting these tired and meaningless pulp and instead present fresh and lateral ideas of your own or progressive sources.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

India uses even older fighter jets that would get rocked by an F-14 if it entered the skies. An F-14 today is still very deadly plane, yes it’s not an F-35 or F-22 but it’s on par with a SU-30 in many ways.







I believe to withhold judgment instead of being overly optimistic. Apparently that’s a sin on these forums and it’s better to be a fanboy.

Hi uncultivated, I persist and sign! He has secret programs in the Iranian army and even things in the field of fighting planes. I am waiting for what Iran reveals some secrets and people here will be ashamed as much that you are poor observers and no intuitions.
We may have a little Suprise with the single-seater Kowsar. We will see, I perceived a little a few things

 

[Flotilla]

A “Iranian super cobra” with armoured body a la SU-25 and A-10 equipped with long range Iranian EO/IO and Iranian tank buster PGM plus anti personnel cluster munitions can wreck havoc during war time.

I think attack helicopters are extremely vulnerable to MANPADS. Ukraine conflict has shown that thousands of MANPADs given by western countries can stop or make nearly impossible using attack helicopters in combat. UCAVs like that Mohajer 6 with 6 glide guided bombs are much more safe and less risky for all Artesh pilots. If you want to use attack helicopters against a western country or army armed by western country (assuming they would receive hundreds of MANPADs for dealing with Artesh and Sepah armies), you need to develop first a good DIRCM system and a IR/EO missile with more range that western MANPADs. Persians cobras are good for CAS in frontiers or low intensity skirmishes, but in conventional conflicts with huge military help from western countries, their utility are limited.

 

[TheImmortal]

I think attack helicopters are extremely vulnerable to MANPADS. Ukraine conflict has shown that thousands of MANPADs given by western countries can stop or make nearly impossible using attack helicopters in combat. UCAVs like that Mohajer 6 with 6 glide guided bombs are much more safe and less risky for all Artesh pilots. If you want to use attack helicopters against a western country or army armed by western country (assuming they would receive hundreds of MANPADs for dealing with Artesh and Sepah armies), you need to develop first a good DIRCM system and a IR/EO missile with more range that western MANPADs. Persians cobras are good for CAS in frontiers or low intensity skirmishes, but in conventional conflicts with huge military help from western countries, their utility are limited.

Russian Alligators are doing fine against manpads. In the beginning of the war they sustained some losses flying thru contested territory. But in last 2 months the amount of footage of of helicopters being shot down has dramatically dropped.

Tens of thousands of manpads were sent to Ukraine, yet how many videos of shot down aircraft/choppers do you see in last 2 months? 10? 5? 15?

 

[Flotilla]

Russian Alligators are doing fine against manpads. In the beginning of the war they sustained some losses flying thru contested territory. But in last 2 months the amount of footage of of helicopters being shot down has dramatically dropped.

Tens of thousands of manpads were sent to Ukraine, yet how many videos of shot down aircraft/choppers do you see in last 2 months? 10? 5? 15?

In the case of the Alligators, the reason is clear. Many of them operates DIRCM systems, and moreover, they doesn´t do direct CAS missions. The videos shows how they fly and try to maintain a very high AOA just for trying to grab some hundreds meters more of range to their rockets. So, extrapolating the tactics, one can imagine how many MANPADS americans and israelis would give to persians enemies, and how IRIAA should not only build new cobras, but develop any indigenous DIRCM. Too costly IMO for it. More UCAV and some turboprop engine for more powerful UCAV would be better than expending such money in that.

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[TheImmortal]

In the case of the Alligators, the reason is clear. Many of them operates DIRCM systems, and moreover, they doesn´t do direct CAS missions. The videos shows how they fly and try to maintain a very high AOA just for trying to grab some hundreds meters more of range to their rockets. So, extrapolating the tactics, one can imagine how many MANPADS americans and israelis would give to persians enemies, and how IRIAA should not only build new cobras, but develop any indigenous DIRCM. Too costly IMO for it. More UCAV and some turboprop engine for more powerful UCAV would be better than expending such money in that.

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Not correct. The rockets I suspect is due to a dwindling PGM stockpile. We see the same issue with their drones and lack of PGMs. But we still see clips of Aligators obliterating tanks from a far using PGMs.

It is not the threat of manpads keeping alligators conservative. As the entire Russian Air Force is acting conservative. It’s the threat of medium and long range SAMs keeping them away. These systems have been imported in from the west as well as whatever survived the initial blitzkreig of the war.

BUK-2M, TOR-M2, and S-400 have obliterated Ukraine helicopters.

Manpads are an opportunity weapon target has to be in range. Soldier has to have manpad. And achieve a lock on target. Not so simple during the fog of war and heat of battle.

Lastly turboprop UAVs are slow and vulnerable. Iran needs to transition to at least have 1-2 models of bomber UAVs powered by a turbojet or even jet engine.

 

[drmeson]

With the rise of Air defence weapons technology, the role of helis are questionable. Drones, Missiles do an equally good job.

 

[drmeson]

that was all on Ahmadinejad government , just like what they did with Hamaseh drone

there was no Saeqeh mass production and they must learn from something.

blame that on sanctions

not hesa problem , the reporters were handpicked by government

let IRGC first build something then we talk , you gave IRIAF to IRGC and they turn it into IRIDF

- The Parvaneh guy who came up with Azarakhsh PS and the horrible presentation of Qaher did not work for Ahmadinejad Govt. He worked for IAMI.

- They announced it as being mass-produced hornet equivalent, yes HESA did. Instead of saying it's an ongoing R&D technology demonstrator project with boosted yawing, pitching, skin stress, etc tests and Saegheh II with advanced cockpits (what they actually were) but they went the political rhetoric.

- No, it's the image you create of your actual accomplishments in the end. Did not Iran supply weapons to Iraq, Syria, Ethiopia, and Venezuela during the sanctions? HESA Shahed helis or UCAVs are top-notch products mind you.

- The Buffet table presentation of such a good avionics package was not journalists' idea but HESA clowns. They failed to show the quite advanced Radar+avionics package properly and refused to even show a single All-aspect HOBS weapon it carries. No proper cockpit layout for press, and electronic actuators showing FBW were there but they did not care to talk about them. Just the same old stupid "it flies at 1.6 Mach, carries 5 missiles,1 cannon, 2 pilots, 2 wings, 1 tail" kinda presentation. Had this thing was unveiled with such level of indigenous production in our neighbourhood trust me they would have made movies on it.

- if IRIAF under IRGC turns out like IRGC Missile forces, it will be one of the top air combat arms in the world esp in the unmanned era. It probably will in reality as well.

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538421286589931520

 

[WudangMaster]