Iran turns its back on Russia and China with own battle tank

[waz]

Yes it looks great. Iran keep going at it bros. This whole thing about taking inspiration or copying etc. Look at the end of the day by building something from scratch you learn and more importantly have a foundation to spring board other ideas.

 

[Dazzler]

Really?,it appears to have a separate rotating head as well as possibly rotation in elevation too,its pretty obvious that it can rotate independently of the rws gun mount and from the looks of it it appears to have three channels and likely a laser range finder as well,so from the look of it it appears to fulfill the criteria,indeed about the only difference is its boxy as opposed to cylindrical design,plus there are pictures+video of the inside of the karrar which show what looks to be a video viewer and sight control panel which doesnt look to be all that much different,not identical perhaps,but certainly very similar to the exact same sort of system in the t90ms turret,in addition the iranians have been producing multi channel flir systems for drones and aircraft for several years so if iran can produce these systems for aeronautical and other applications then I`m quite sure they can do it for tanks as well.Of course if it isnt a panoramic sight then that raises the question of what else exactly it could possibly be?

Mate, get serious, if you don't know about some technology, just ASK, no harm done, but stop pretending when you know zilch about something.

Hey doctor... Please do something for him!

Temperature goes high...

Calm down comrade, we r having an informed discussion so learn while you can.

 

[PeeD]

So Dazzler, whats the operational difference between the commanders sights you showed and the Iranian one? Which capability does the Iranian design solution which is a different one have in operation?

To make it easier for you here the capabilities of the Iranian sight:

Stabilisation in azimuth and elevation
360° coverage (as RWS is also 360° turnble)
CCTV channel
Infrared channel
Thermal channel
Laser range finder

I'm waiting.

 

[Rukarl]

Mate, get serious, if you don't know about some technology, just ASK, no harm done, but stop pretending when you know zilch about something.

Obviously, it is you who does not seems to know what you're talking about. Why do you keep insisting on embarrassing yourself like this?

So Dazzler, whats the operational difference between the commanders sights you showed and the Iranian one? Which capability does the Iranian design solution which is a different one have in operation?

To make it easier for you here the capabilities of the Iranian sight:

Stabilisation in azimuth and elevation
360° coverage (as RWS is also 360° turnble)
CCTV channel
Infrared channel
Thermal channel
Laser range finder

I'm waiting.

He does not seem to understand these basic facts. He thinks a panoramic sight has to look exactly like the ones he's seen before otherwise nothing else can provide the same function!

 

[Dazzler]

So Dazzler, whats the operational difference between the commanders sights you showed and the Iranian one? Which capability does the Iranian design solution which is a different one have in operation?

To make it easier for you here the capabilities of the Iranian sight:

Stabilisation in azimuth and elevation
360° coverage (as RWS is also 360° turnble)
CCTV channel
Infrared channel
Thermal channel
Laser range finder

I'm waiting.

Commanders independent panoramic sight is essentially a bulkhead with LRF and optics. Having an independent sight and sensors, the commander is in a much better position to decide which target to take out first.
This facility must be supplemented by a powerful fire control system with an override facility. If the FCS lacks processing capability or override or both, it renders the mbt vulnerable.

Now for hunter killer. Again, it allows commander and Gunners to coordinate with eachother for taking out targets. Again, to have this capability, both must have their separate sensor bulkheads for better situation awareness.

The so called rotating head is actually remote weapon station which serves an entirely different purpose, I.e. engaging low flying choppers or pillboxes etc.If used for multiple purposes, the Gunner will be busy doing more on two stations. Wasting precious seconds when every one counts is not what any tank crew would ever want.

Hope that clears some smoke.

Obviously, it is you who does not seems to know what you're talking about. Why do you keep insisting on embarrassing yourself like this?



He does not seem to understand these basic facts. He thinks a panoramic sight has to look exactly like the ones he's seen before otherwise nothing else can provide the same function!

Read above.

 

[PeeD]

@Dazzler

All the characteristics you metioned are present in the Karrar.

Override function, assign function to the gunner, LRF for gunner and commander, advanced FCS with locking function. Study the videos and photos, everything is proven there.

You criticize the commanders sight because its mounted on the RWS? Look at the T-90SM, it has the same design solution. The difference to the T-90SM is that the Iranian design solution doesn't do the elevation stabilization inside the housing of the sight. The result is still the same, complete sight stabilization and independence, just differing design solutions.

The RWS is for the commander, no time will be lost, the RWS is just for the commander. For fine rotating the rotation stabilization of the sight will be used and the RWS rotates coarse if the rotation of the sight is about to reach its limits.
If you have doubts look at the T-90SM, it uses the same principle. The older T-90S uses the more classic principle of your photos and its clear that the Russians would not make a step back from T-90SM to T-90S.

 

[Dazzler]

@Dazzler

All the characteristics you metioned are present in the Karrar.

Override function, assign function to the gunner, LRF for gunner and commander, advanced FCS with locking function. Study the videos and photos, everything is proven there.

You criticize the commanders sight because its mounted on the RWS? Look at the T-90SM, it has the same design solution. The difference to the T-90SM is that the Iranian design solution doesn't do the elevation stabilization inside the housing of the sight. The result is still the same, complete sight stabilization and independence, just differing design solutions.

The RWS is for the commander, no time will be lost, the RWS is just for the commander. For fine rotating the rotation stabilization of the sight will be used and the RWS rotates coarse if the rotation of the sight is about to reach its limits.
If you have doubts look at the T-90SM, it uses the same principle. The older T-90S uses the more classic principle of your photos and its clear that the Russians would not make a step back from T-90SM to T-90S.

Here you go, now show me where is the so called rws you claimed it has? There is a panoramic sight just ahead of the commander station. Also note other differences on the turrets of both MBTs.

It has no advanced FCS, just a ruditementary FCS driven from EFCS-3 by fotona.

And please, do you even know what a panoramic sight is and how much benefit it provides to the commander and tank crew? Just because you said no time will be wasted doesn't mean that's going to be the case. the battlefield is a dangerous place to be with threats coming from all directions.

And read about differences between a remote weapon station and a commanders panoramic sight.

 

[PeeD]

@Dazzler

You photo shows it. On the T-90SM the "panoramic" sight sits on the rotating platform of the RWS and can also rotate itself, just like on the Karrar. Look at a video of the T-90SM if you have problems to understand.

Second. The EFCS-3 is quite potent but lacks the locking feature demonstrated by the Karrar in the videos (where chassi turns while gun remains pointed). Hence we can be confident that its not the original EFCS-3.

Third, yes a panoramic sight is very useful and is available on the Karrar. A panoramic sight can be combined to the RWS as seen on T-90SM and Karrar, no negative impact at all.

Look you are just confused because of the different looks of the Karrar but from engineering perspective its the same panoramic sight you have in your mind. If you have any questions about what the Karrars commanders independent sight might can't, feel free to ask.

 

[AmirPatriot]

where is the so called rws you claimed it has

How could you not - you know what, you're just a troll, I'll make it absolutely clear for you.

Did you find it?

just a ruditementary FCS driven from EFCS-3 by fotona.

Sheer Lies.

EFCS-3

Karrar FCS.

Their only similarity is that they are both housed in a box!

 

[Dazzler]

How could you not - you know what, you're just a troll, I'll make it absolutely clear for you.

View attachment 385387

Did you find it?

View attachment 385388

Sheer Lies.

EFCS-3

Karrar FCS.

Their only similarity is that they are both housed in a box!

You call this panoramic sight??

Man, you are damn hilarious.
You should've atleast seen the pics I shared on the previous page .
Anyway, this is by no means a panoramic sight, rather an attempt to develop one but the design is a sheer let down. I mean the commander can barely see 180 degrees let alone 360.

As for your other point, you've been calling Gunner sight as EFCS-3.

Pal, a Gunner sight is a component of the entire fire control system, not the fire control system itself.

 

[Rukarl]

This guy is obviously a troll. Either that or he is absolutely clueless. I mean how much more simpler can one make the situation for someone?

Anyway, this is by no means a panoramic sight, rather an attempt to develop one but the design is a sheer let

The only thing being a let down here is you. I mean you seem to lack basic rational thinking? The sensor being housed near the RWS can ROTATE and could view 360 degrees.

 

[Dazzler]

This guy is obviously a troll. Either that or he is absolutely clueless. I mean how much more simpler can one make the situation for someone?



The only thing being a let down here is you. I mean you seem to lack basic rational thinking? The sensor being housed near the RWS can ROTATE and could view 360 degrees.

Save your breath mate, the discussion is beyond you.

 

[Rukarl]

Save your breath mate, the discussion is beyond you.

People don't talk when using the computer to comment, "save breath"?
It seems you being irrational is not just in the context of tanks, but in general.

 

[Dazzler]

People don't talk when using the computer to comment, "save breath"?
It seems you being irrational is not just in the context of tanks, but in general.

Not interested in your off topic rants.

 

[Rukarl]

Not interested in your off topic rants.

Neither are we interested in your irrational rants which have done nothing but waste thread space. But we have no choice but debunk your flawed logic.