Iran turns its back on Russia and China with own battle tank

[Fafnir]

It's just a glorified t-72 that's all there is to Karrar and that's what I said in my very first post. is it that difficult to swallow?



what did you prove?



As I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. I mean, how much do you know about panoramic sights, their designs and role?
You literally embarrassed every mbt manufacturer with this statement of yours. Hell, they should take heed from Iran on designing panoramic sights now.

Ukrainians must be curiously looking into your state of the art panoramic sight as all they could come up with until now was this big fat bulky babe.

You keep saying I have no clue yet apart from posting some photos of what looks to be somewhat dated 90s era panoramics you`ve written nothing nor posted anything that disproves anything that I`ve written.I`ve asked this before and received no response but I`ll ask you again:if it is not a panoramic sight then what else could it possibly be?,I would certainly expect that a "consultant" like yourself who claims to be highly knowledgeable about these systems would have an answer......or perhaps not
Now as for your ukrainian sight...,well first off I`m sure a "consultant" like yourself would be only too aware that ukraine is not exactly a world leader,to put it mildly,when it comes to the weapons/military hardware it has on offer,most of it appears to be either copies of soviet era hardware or refurbed/remanufactured soviet era hardware and designs with some upgrades and improvements and an awful lot of whats on offer appears to be nothing more than vaporware,I know this because I downloaded one of their armaments catalogues a couple of years ago,it made for ...shall we say interesting reading and just leave it at that.For instance the ukranian panoramic you posted looks physically to be of almost of the same vintage as the mid-late 90s turms-t right down to its old binocular eye pieces.
Tell you what lets try some pics to attempt to illustrate things:
below is the t90ms commanders station,now on the far left we can clearly see the flat panel screen and underneath it the remote control panel for the panoramic site,now we notice that these are quite separate physically from the body of the sight which is mounted behind the commander

Now here we see the iranian remote mounted viewer,in this case the viewer and controls are actually integrated in one whole unit unlike the two separate systems in the t90ms,certainly not a copy but close cousins without a doubt and in addition we also see a multifunction display next to it just as in the t90ms

"Hell, they should take heed from Iran on designing panoramic sights now"
Well I think the ukrainians certainly should judging from the look of the system you posted.This isnt rocket science iran and russia have simply applied the same design choices that were used in systems like aircraft flirs and optronic submarine masts ie a separate sight/vision system with a remote mounted display and control as opposed to a far bulkier unitary system,personally I think a lot of others will follow their lead both with an integrated rws/panoramic sight and a remote sight controller/integrated display because the advantages are just so...well...dare I say.. obvious....at least to some of us that is.

This boy suffering from not a rare disorder which is butthurt !

Let's look at this:

View attachment 385415

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...er-guided-missile.364287/page-36#post-6903200

The "airframe" part really touched my feelings!

Now,now SOHEIL lets have some sympathy for the poor girl it cant be easy to be both a PDF "consultant" and a:
crime fighting superhero

That outfit does look like KISS meets disco tho`

 

[Dazzler]

This boy suffering from not a rare disorder which is butthurt !

Let's look at this:

View attachment 385415

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...er-guided-missile.364287/page-36#post-6903200

The "airframe" part really touched my feelings!

With this offtopic post, you've cemented your status as a sheer troll.

 

[AmirPatriot]

With this offtopic post, you've cemented your status as a sheer troll.

Yes, I can see all those people upvoting your posts who share that sentiment.

Everyone else thinks the troll is the person who waltzes into this thread with their top argument that the panoramic sight doesn't look like that on older tanks, and that the FCS is an old FCS even though they look completely different. Clearly, the T-14 is also rubbish because its panoramic sight doesn't look like the Al-Khalid's. Then you're calling an MBT with RWS, ERA as standard and modern electronics a T-72S, which has none of these features.

Speaking of RWS, what sort of RWS does the Al-Khalid mount?

 

[Dazzler]

Yes, I can see all those people upvoting your posts who share that sentiment.

Everyone else thinks the troll is the person who waltzes into this thread with their top argument that the panoramic sight doesn't look like that on older tanks, and that the FCS is an old FCS even though they look completely different. Clearly, the T-14 is also rubbish because its panoramic sight doesn't look like the Al-Khalid's. Then you're calling an MBT with RWS, ERA as standard and modern electronics a T-72S, which has none of these features.

Speaking of RWS, what sort of RWS does the Al-Khalid mount?

You are more than welcome to ask any question in Alkhalid thread. Let's keep this one on Karrar shall we?

Now,now SOHEIL lets have some sympathy for the poor girl it cant be easy to be both a PDF "consultant" and a:
crime fighting superhero

That outfit does look like KISS meets disco tho`

After this idiotic gibberish, you should not expect people to take you seriously. If you don't have something relevant to contribute, better not respond.

 

[Sina-1]

You are more than welcome to ask any question in Alkhalid thread. Let's keep this one on Karrar shall we?

You have constantly avoided the technical challenges presented by @PeeD and @Fafnir e.g. recently posts 376 & 377.

It is clear that you missjudged the situation when coming into this thread chest banging, thinking you had a point to make. It is quite clear that you were dead wrong and your credibility went from low to zero. You will not improve upon your credibility by admitting how wrong you were to begin with. However you will come out honorable as there is no shame to being wrong sometimes, if one is big enough to admit it.

After this idiotic gibberish, you should not expect people to take you seriously. If you don't have something relevant to contribute, better not respond.

Great advice! Maybe you should try to put into practice yourself!

 

[Dazzler]

You have constantly avoided the technical challenges presented by @PeeD and @Fafnir e.g. recently posts 376 & 377.

It is clear that you missjudged the situation when coming into this thread chest banging, thinking you had a point to make. It is quite clear that you were dead wrong and your credibility went from low to zero. You will not improve upon your credibility by admitting how wrong you were to begin with. However you will come out honorable as there is no shame to being wrong sometimes, if one is big enough to admit it.

So what is right and what is wrong? can you pinpoint that plz.

You have constantly avoided the technical challenges presented by @PeeD and @Fafnir e.g. recently posts 376 & 377.

It is clear that you missjudged the situation when coming into this thread chest banging, thinking you had a point to make. It is quite clear that you were dead wrong and your credibility went from low to zero. You will not improve upon your credibility by admitting how wrong you were to begin with. However you will come out honorable as there is no shame to being wrong sometimes, if one is big enough to admit it.


Great advice! Maybe you should try to put into practice yourself!

Another word warrior, I see them a plenty in this thread.
I am yet to get a proper response to queries.

How can you fanboys compare Karrar ith t-90Ms? It seems that no one has the answer.
One fellow discredited the Ukrainians by saying they are new to tank building forgetting that the ace tank designer and father of soviet t-64 high technology mbt, Alexander Morozov was a ukrainian. Others are more interested in insulting and abusing than discussing.

All because most fanboys are too high on patriotism and have little clue what the discussion is actually about.

Again, what makes Karrar on par or even similar to t-90 as you've claimed by seeing a clip and a handful pictures. I haven't even touched the engine transmission issue yet as I know that it is built over t-72 hull and likely has the same engine/ transmission.

Try to be a little civilized this time though some of you might have difficulty doing that.

There are two problems with RWS. They get easier damaged than hand operated guns and if no design solution like on the Armata/T-90SM/Karrar are used they block the view for the commanders sight as they are bulky.

Leclerc has no RWS and a high positioned commanders sight = no problem

Czech T-72 upgrade has just a hand operated gun and hence a smaller portion of view is blocked.

M1A2 war retrofitted later on with RWS and has the same view blocking issues as Leo2 and Altay.

M60T has no real commanders sight and uses RWS for that purpose, with clear 360° view but probably lower performance than a dedicated commanders sight like on Armata/T-90SM/Karrar.

I fail to understand what you are trying to prove here? if its about proving the effectiveness of so called panoramic sight on Karrar, it has none. the one you see ahead of the 12.7mm gun is more of a multipurpose sight but surely not a panoramic sight. again, you'll come jumping it is one but the fact is that it isn't.
Now before you claim that it can turn 360° independently, there is no point as the gun mount will block it anyway.

No one here claimed that panoramic sight solutions on other MBTs are Optimized solutions. There is always a compromise and no such thing as a error free solution in armour. But, what makes you say that the sight head on Karrar is an optimized solution, whereas it's clearly visible that it is not.

 

[Sina-1]

So what is right and what is wrong? can you pinpoint that plz.


Another word warrior, I see them a plenty in this thread.
I am yet to get a proper response to queries.

How can you fanboys compare Karrar ith t-90Ms? It seems that no one has the answer.
One fellow discredited the Ukrainians by saying they are new to tank building forgetting that the ace tank designer and father of soviet t-64 high technology mbt, Alexander Morozov was a ukrainian. Others are more interested in insulting and abusing than discussing.

All because most fanboys are too high on patriotism and have little clue what the discussion is actually about.

Again, what makes Karrar on par or even similar to t-90 as you've claimed by seeing a clip and a handful pictures. I haven't even touched the engine transmission issue yet as I know that it is built over t-72 bull and likely has the same engine/ transmission.

Try to be a little civilized this time though some of you might have difficulty doing that.

So in the same post where you are asking for more civilized conversation, you are labeling me fanboy and word warrior. The irony...

OK I'm really interested to see your technical response on posts 376 & 377. You wishing for pinpoint technical discussions, then I figure you will address all the points they have made and either agree or debunk them.

We are waiting!

 

[Dazzler]

You are embarrassing yourself dude. I will not help you


So in the same post where you are asking for more civilized conversation, you are labeling me fanboy and word warrior. The irony...

OK I'm really interested to see your technical response on posts 376 & 377. You wishing for pinpoint technical discussions, then I figure you will address all the points they have made and either agree or debunk them.

We are waiting!

So in the same post where you are asking for more civilized conversation, you are labeling me fanboy and word warrior. The irony...

OK I'm really interested to see your technical response on posts 376 & 377. You wishing for pinpoint technical discussions, then I figure you will address all the points they have made and either agree or debunk them.

We are waiting!

[/QUOTE]

refer to post #382

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Dazzler is as thick as a brick. He refuses to give any evidence that Karrar does not have a Crew commanders independent sight incorporated into the RWS platform but keeps insulting everyone else saying that we have no clue what an "panoramic" sight is. We have wasted at least 2 pages trying to get a straight answer from this clown as he keeps deflecting. Clearly he is not interested in a dialogue so please stop responding to his baiting tactics.

 

[Blue In Green]

Dazzler is as thick as a brick. He refuses to give any evidence that Karrar does not have a Crew commanders independent sight incorporated into the RWS platform but keeps insulting everyone else saying that we have no clue what an "panoramic" sight is. We have wasted at least 2 pages trying to get a straight answer from this clown as he keeps deflecting. Clearly he is not interested in a dialogue so please stop responding to his baiting tactics.

He might just be lead....

 

[SOHEIL]

Ok guys... We had enough fun !

Ignore the troll...

 

[Dazzler]

look closely and tell what do you see..

 

[Blue In Green]

look closely and tell what do you see..

View attachment 385542

Pashmeh khooneh madaret daram mi benam olagh zadeh...

 

[Rukarl]

It seems this guy is just trolling for the sake of it. I wonder how old this kid is.
They're probably saw a few pics of tanks on google and now they're embarrassing themselves with all this gibberish. The poor guy is getting schooled left and right and he keeps resorting to posting random pics

 

[warfareknow]

Pashmeh khooneh madaret daram mi benam olagh zadeh...

Good answer, no actually not.