Iran turns its back on Russia and China with own battle tank

[SOHEIL]

So much for the discussion.

No discussion with you !

I just responded how you deserve...

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Lol, as expected, you are a troll after all. Instead of answering some basic queries, you had to bring the Alkhalid in.

So much for the discussion.

FYI, It is rumored more often than ever that there is some Turkish whisperings/solutions into Pakistani Tank technology.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Chinese-Dragon You are getting it aaallll wrong here. Iranians are not anti-Chinese by any stretch of the imagination. Hell, we aren't even anti-American (but against their policies in a big way). You should know well the Iranian-Chinese cultural relationship, Silk Road being an obvious instance.

Politically Iran and it's government want expanded relationship with Russia and China (though I'd probably say China more). Iran, as an anti-Imperialistic state, wants to cooperate with other anti-Imperialistic states like China and Russia. Otherwise the Americans will try to isolate us.

What Iranians here are saying is that try as we might, this feeling does not seem to be mutual. While there is of course economic relationship, this is not enough. Iran has a great economic relationship with Europe as well. Economic relationship is only for making money. Iranians want to see deep strategic and military cooperation with China & Russia, but as @yavar and @SOHEIL have pointed out, China and Russia both (to varying extents) have in recent history shunned this sort of cooperation, which is why they are sceptical.



I think it's only you.



What part of a tank looks thin???

Fair point sir.

Here is a question though, would Iran actually sign a mutual defense treaty with China and/or Russia?

Which means, if China were to get into a war with the USA in the South China Sea, or if Russia were to get into a war with the USA over Ukraine, would Iran also declare war on the USA and attack their assets in the Gulf? What about if China got into a war with India?

China takes mutual defense treaties very seriously, as seen in the Korean War. We don't get along with North Korea, yet we still declared total war against the USA + 16 of her allies in the Korean War to uphold the treaty. And forced them out of North Korea, a situation that persists to this day (maybe unfortunately, depending on one's perspective).

Not like America, who abandoned their mutual defense treaty with the Philippines in 2012 when China was seizing their territory.

In the end, in geopolitics, all countries have to look after their own national interests first. Which means that the Iranian government would be understandably wary of signing anything of the sort.

 

[AmirPatriot]

@Dazzler You are the one doing the trolling here. You talk about Qaher in a tank thread and cry "unrelated" when we talk about Al Khalid. So in this instance you are being hypocritical.

You also ask us to give evidence proving Karrar is better than T-90MS, while you know full well that countries never give full specifications of their new weapons and expect a few forum members to know these specs. THEN you start saying Karrar is definitely WORSE than the T-90MS, despite you having no clue whatsoever about its engine, armour, ammunition or electronics (for which all you know is that it has different screens and sensors). All you know is that Iran has T-72s in its arsenal, and that Iran may have used certain components from the T-72 in the Karrar. But apart from the basic hull and gun, you have no proof at all that any other components are lifted from the T-72 or T-90MS.

So quit making biased assumptions (confirmation bias) and hypocrisy.

 

[Dazzler]

No discussion with you !

I just responded how you deserve...

Funny, since you have nothing to discuss, or rather respond, you began deciding as to who deserves what.

Funny indeed.

@Dazzler You are the one doing the trolling here. You talk about Qaher in a tank thread and cry "unrelated" when we talk about Al Khalid. So in this instance you are being hypocritical.

You also ask us to give evidence proving Karrar is better than T-90MS, while you know full well that countries never give full specifications of their new weapons and expect a few forum members to know these specs. THEN you start saying Karrar is definitely WORSE than the T-90MS, despite you having no clue whatsoever about its engine, armour, ammunition or electronics (for which all you know is that it has different screens and sensors). All you know is that Iran has T-72s in its arsenal, and that Iran may have used certain components from the T-72 in the Karrar. But apart from the basic hull and gun, you have no proof at all that any other components are lifted from the T-72 or T-90MS.

So quit making biased assumptions (confirmation bias) and hypocrisy.

Ameteur response. My purpose here is merely to burst some fanboy bubbles. Karrar is just an Iranian souped up t-72 and that's is that.

I can literally quantify this statement by pics and video your media provided but I guess it's enough for now.

just know that it lacks a panoramic sight, let alone commanders independent sight, and the FCS is pretty basic, similar to the one fitted in Safir 74.

Enjoy your fantasy mbt and it's victory over any adversary it ever faces, if it ever enters service.

 

[TruthHurtz]

Funny, since you have nothing to discuss, or rather respond, you began deciding as to who deserves what.

Funny indeed.



Ameteur response. My purpose here is merely to burst some fanboy bubbles. Karrar is just an Iranian souped up t-72 and that's is that.

I can literally quantify this statement by pics and video your media provided but I guess it's enough for now.

just know that it lacks a panoramic sight, let alone commanders independent sight, and the FCS is pretty basic, similar to the one fitted in Safir 74.

Enjoy your fantasy mbt and it's victory over any adversary it ever faces, if it ever enters service.

pakistan avg iq 84

Funny, since you have nothing to discuss, or rather respond, you began deciding as to who deserves what.

Funny indeed.



Ameteur response. My purpose here is merely to burst some fanboy bubbles. Karrar is just an Iranian souped up t-72 and that's is that.

I can literally quantify this statement by pics and video your media provided but I guess it's enough for now.

just know that it lacks a panoramic sight, let alone commanders independent sight, and the FCS is pretty basic, similar to the one fitted in Safir 74.

Enjoy your fantasy mbt and it's victory over any adversary it ever faces, if it ever enters service.

haha i redpilled you with the TRUTH and you down rated me!

pathetic

 

[Rukarl]

Ameteur response. My purpose here is merely to burst some fanboy bubbles. Karrar is just an Iranian souped up t-72 and that's is that.

I can literally quantify this statement by pics and video your media provided but I guess it's enough for now.

just know that it lacks a panoramic sight, let alone commanders independent sight, and the FCS is pretty basic, similar to the one fitted in Safir 74.

Enjoy your fantasy mbt and it's victory over any adversary it ever faces, if it ever enters service.

It seems you are just trolling, like I initially thought.

1- No one had stated this tank is not based on a T-72 chassis.
2- The T-90ms itself is based on the T-72 so we can say the T-90ms is just a "souped up t-72".
3- It does have panoramic sight if you open your eyes and look clearly.
4- The FCS being "pretty basic" is your fantasy which you created with no evidence.


And the last part of your comment proves you're just trolling. @Serpentine I think this guy needs a few warnings to stop trolling. He is just wasting thread space now.

 

[Dazzler]

It seems you are just trolling, like I initially thought.

1- No one had stated this tank is not based on a T-72 chassis.
2- The T-90ms itself is based on the T-72 so we can say the T-90ms is just a "souped up t-72".
3- It does have panoramic sight if you open your eyes and look clearly.
4- The FCS being "pretty basic" is your fantasy which you created with no evidence.


And the last part of your comment proves you're just trolling. @Serpentine I think this guy needs a few warnings to stop trolling. He is just wasting thread space now.

Where do you see the panoramic sght here?

 

[TruthHurtz]

Where do you see the panoramic sght here?

thats the old prototype version

 

[Fafnir]

Where do you see the panoramic sght here?

In future you really might want to check the relevant threads just a little bit more carefully that way you can hopefully avoid being publicly embarrassed...like you are now for example especially what with you being a "consultant"[lol] and all..,for instance here is a pic of the production rws and its integrated panoramic sight

 

[django]

View attachment 384260

Iran turns its back on Russia and China with own battle tank​

• Bel Trew, Cairo
• March 14 2017, 12:01am, The Times

View attachment 384262
The Karrar tank is being hailed as a breakthrough in Iran’s military capabilities, with the country’s defence minister saying it could “compete with the most advanced tanks in the world”AP
​

Iran has begun to mass produce a new battle tank as Tehran looks to reduce its reliance on Russian imports to bolster its military arsenal.

The Karrar (striker) tank is being hailed as a breakthrough in Iran’s military capabilities, but it closely resembles the export version of Russia’s T90MS and comes months after Tehran formally suspended talks with Moscow on buying that model.

​

“[The Karrar] can compete with the most advanced tanks in the world in the three main areas of power, precision and mobility, as well as maintenance and durability in the battleground,” Hossein Dehghan, the defence minister, told the semi-official Fars news agency. “The tank has the capability to fire missiles and precisely guide them.”

Iran previously had turned to countries such as China and Russia for military equipment.

The economy has been boosted by the lifting of western economic sanctions in January last year, after a deal in which Tehran agreed to curb its nuclear programme, and it appears to have stepped up its domestic weapons programme, which also includes the production of missiles, fighter jets and submarines.

However, the United States imposed fresh sanctions on the country last month after a ballistic missile test. President Trump’s administration said that it had put Tehran “on notice” for the action and imposed restrictions on 25 individuals and entities.

In November, Iran suspended talks with Russia over an arms deal said to have been worth $10 billion for the tanks as well as artillery systems, Sukhoi Su-30 fighter jets and helicopters. “The defence industry designed and built the battle tank from scratch. If not better, it’s still as deadly as the Russian T-90,” Mr Dehghan said last year.

Despite buying Russia’s $800 million S-300 missile defence system in February last year, Tehran unveiled its own Bavar 373 system in August. The air defence system, designed to intercept cruise missiles, drones and combat aircraft, was tested this month.

View attachment 384263
B-373

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...ssia-and-china-with-own-battle-tank-rdfnn9sfd​

Definitely superior to the Arjun, no question about it.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Karrar is just an Iranian souped up t-72

So the T-90MS is "just a souped up T-72", the Porsche 911 is "just a souped up Beetle", the Su-35 is "just a souped up Su-27".

Give me a break.

lacks a panoramic sight

@Fafnir proved you wrong!

let alone commanders independent sight

Wrong!

and the FCS is pretty basic, similar to the one fitted in Safir 74

The Safir-74 has the EFCS-3, whose only similarity with the Karrar's FCS is that they are both in a square container!

Safir-74

Karrar

Stop trolling!

Here is a question though, would Iran actually sign a mutual defense treaty with China and/or Russia?

Well, a mutual defence treaty would be the absolute height of cooperation. We'd maybe build up to that, so along the way there would be military cooperation, strategic support etc.

Plus, I'm not sure about the utility of a mutual defence treaty between Iran and China, given that we are thousands of kms apart (unless you count the impassable Himalayas). Furthermore, Iran fighting India and/or Japan would be just as hard as China fighting Saudi or Israel. It would be politically unpalatable to both sides.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well, a mutual defence treaty would be the absolute height of cooperation. We'd maybe build up to that, so along the way there would be military cooperation, strategic support etc.

Plus, I'm not sure about the utility of a mutual defence treaty between Iran and China, given that we are thousands of kms apart (unless you count the impassable Himalayas). Furthermore, Iran fighting India and/or Japan would be just as hard as China fighting Saudi or Israel. It would be politically unpalatable to both sides.

That's a fair assessment.

 

[Dazzler]

In future you really might want to check the relevant threads just a little bit more carefully that way you can hopefully avoid being publicly embarrassed...like you are now for example especially what with you being a "consultant"[lol] and all..,for instance here is a pic of the production rws and its integrated panoramic sight

Nice try, but thats not exactly a panoramic sight.


It should be something like this,

Or,

Or,

and so on. In short, it is a separate head for the commander that houses commander's day sight, night sight/ thermal viewer, laser range finder and can be rotated independently up to 360 degrees.

 

[haman10]

Nice try, but thats not exactly a panoramic sight.


It should be something like this,

Or,

Or,

and so on. In short, it is a separate head for the commander that houses commander's day sight, night sight/ thermal viewer, laser range finder and can be rotated independently up to 360 degrees.

Pls stop doing this to yourself. its getting a little ugly .

If you celebrate nowruz, happy new year to you and your family

Fair point sir.

Here is a question though, would Iran actually sign a mutual defense treaty with China and/or Russia?

Which means, if China were to get into a war with the USA in the South China Sea, or if Russia were to get into a war with the USA over Ukraine, would Iran also declare war on the USA and attack their assets in the Gulf? What about if China got into a war with India?

China takes mutual defense treaties very seriously, as seen in the Korean War. We don't get along with North Korea, yet we still declared total war against the USA + 16 of her allies in the Korean War to uphold the treaty. And forced them out of North Korea, a situation that persists to this day (maybe unfortunately, depending on one's perspective).

Not like America, who abandoned their mutual defense treaty with the Philippines in 2012 when China was seizing their territory.

In the end, in geopolitics, all countries have to look after their own national interests first. Which means that the Iranian government would be understandably wary of signing anything of the sort.

Syrian war is a testament to our dedication to the defense treaties we have.

During Obama reign when US regime wanted to attack Syria, we made it clear that such an attack would be treated like an attack on Iran. thats what stopped them not Russia not anyone else .

So i guess we're pretty much the best ally one could have. we've spent billions of dollars in Syria and Iraq. we've lost soldiers there