Iran launching missiles towards ISIS positions

[VEVAK]

So if this is the case, does IRGC already work on its own fighter concept?
Maybe its the budget of the IRGC what keeps it more innovative than Irans Air force?

It is NOT the budget! It's the mentality! IRGC Aerospace forces that at 1st started out from being artillery forces started from day one with the mentality of 1st reverse engineering the missiles and quickly enhancing on them both solid and liquid! So in the 80's when they would go and beg to by buy 20 missiles here 20 missiles there a handful of them were strictly for reverse engineering....
And any raw material that wasn't being produced in the country they would go 1st try to buy and slowly try to figure out how it was produce and slowly invest in it's production if they needed potassium or sodium nitrate or aluminum or magnesium powder or anything else that wasn't being produced or wasn't being produced in enough quantities and it wasn't easy and it took time!

The Air Force focused on individual spare parts of the aircrafts inside it's own fleet and they didn't care how the alloys were produced nor showed any interest in investing resources towards it nor did they care about coming up with their own designs using different more accessible allows to perfect their design capability

Air Force would go do absurd things like attach a cockpit to the tail of an Aircraft to perfect a reverse engineered ejection seats when they hadn't even build vacuumed oven presses to build airframes and rather that just using rails on the ground assisted by rockets that would have achieved even greater speeds at fraction of the price they do something like attach a cockpit to the tail of passenger jet so the notion that they didn't have money or resources is just not true!

Iranian government DOES NOT micro manage how the Air Force chooses to budget it's resources! And if any organization in Iran has access to find unused mines it's the Air Force and there are plenty of them and it's not like the Iranian government is going to come and tell them no you can't mine and produce your own Ti using your own budget or that your not allowed to perfect your Design capability using different alloys!

Some may say it show the difference in amount of resources they have access to

Like what?? Do you think if the Air Force wanted to invest in Ti production using an unused Ti mine the government would say no?

 

[PeeD]

It is NOT the budget! It's the mentality! IRGC Aerospace forces that at 1st started out from being artillery forces started from day one with the mentality of 1st reverse engineering the missiles and quickly enhancing on them both solid and liquid! So in the 80's when they would go and beg to by buy 20 missiles here 20 missiles there a handful of them were strictly for reverse engineering....
And any raw material that wasn't being produced in the country they would go 1st try to buy and slowly try to figure out how it was produce and slowly invest in it's production if they needed potassium or sodium nitrate or aluminum or magnesium powder or anything else that wasn't being produced or wasn't being produced in enough quantities and it wasn't easy and it took time!

The Air Force focused on individual spare parts of the aircrafts inside it's own fleet and they didn't care how the alloys were produced nor showed any interest in investing resources towards it nor did they care about coming up with their own designs using different more accessible allows to perfect their design capability

Air Force would go do absurd things like attach a cockpit to the tail of an Aircraft to perfect a reverse engineered ejection seats when they hadn't even build vacuumed oven presses to build airframes and rather that just using rails on the ground assisted by rockets that would have achieved even greater speeds at fraction of the price they do something like attach a cockpit to the tail of passenger jet so the notion that they didn't have money or resources is just not true!

Iranian government DOES NOT micro manage how the Air Force chooses to budget it's resources! And if any organization in Iran has access to find unused mines it's the Air Force and there are plenty of them and it's not like the Iranian government is going to come and tell them no you can't mine and produce your own Ti using your own budget or that your not allowed to perfect your Design capability using different alloys!



Like what?? Do you think if the Air Force wanted to invest in Ti production using an unused Ti mine the government would say no?

The airforce is a heavy weight. Just to produce all needed spare parts for the fleet eats up so much resources that there is not more left to do the things the IRGC-ASF does.
Is it their fault not to have given up on Su-24, Mig-29, Mirage F1, F-5 and F-14 just to reverse engineer and fully master the F-4 (as example)?
No. They have a legacy/burden they have to keep going while the IRGC-ASF started from scratch and chose the most effective means for weapons (guided missiles).

So the budget of the IRIAF eats up everything for keeping the fleet alive. Could Iran accept the fleet to be gone for some years until their develop a own fighter with the budget?
No. But they could have done things better and lack the "youth" of the IRGC-ASF.

 

[VEVAK]

The airforce is a heavy weight. Just to produce all needed spare parts for the fleet eats up so much resources that there is not more left to do the things the IRGC-ASF does.
Is it their fault not to have given up on Su-24, Mig-29, Mirage F1, F-5 and F-14 just to reverse engineer and fully master the F-4 (as example)?
No. They have a legacy/burden they have to keep going while the IRGC-ASF started from scratch and chose the most effective means for weapons (guided missiles).

So the budget of the IRIAF eats up everything for keeping the fleet alive. Could Iran accept the fleet to be gone for some years until their develop a own fighter with the budget?
No. But they could have done things better and lack the "youth" of the IRGC-ASF.

Your talking on a production scale! Yes on a production scale it would required government funding but building prototype and a few tools to build and test prototype does NOT!
Iran's government does NOT micro manage the way IRIAF spends it money! So yes they could have grounded a handful of aircrafts to pay for whatever raw materials they needed
IRIAF mentality was to buy the alloys and simply cut and build current spare parts needed to keep their fleet flying and they never really went beyond that!

Your making up excuses for them! They have the facilities, they are already paying for manpower, they have a good amount of tools needed to build better tools. And over the span of the last 20-30 YEARS slowly paying for the material cost or custom ordered parts to build themselves a vacuumed oven press or proper advanced cutting equipment attached to single robotic arm does NOT require massive investment when you have all these unused facilities and have the manpower and the relatively low cost for any additional full time personal

And again I am NOT talking production level! I'm talking prototypes or a single finished product so the government & MOD can say yes investing here would make sense because they can clearly do it but I see NOTHING from the IRAF that proves that but clearly we do see that in the IRGC

 

[Hack-Hook]

It is NOT the budget! It's the mentality! IRGC Aerospace forces that at 1st started out from being artillery forces started from day one with the mentality of 1st reverse engineering the missiles and quickly enhancing on them both solid and liquid! So in the 80's when they would go and beg to by buy 20 missiles here 20 missiles there a handful of them were strictly for reverse engineering....
And any raw material that wasn't being produced in the country they would go 1st try to buy and slowly try to figure out how it was produce and slowly invest in it's production if they needed potassium or sodium nitrate or aluminum or magnesium powder or anything else that wasn't being produced or wasn't being produced in enough quantities and it wasn't easy and it took time!

The Air Force focused on individual spare parts of the aircrafts inside it's own fleet and they didn't care how the alloys were produced nor showed any interest in investing resources towards it nor did they care about coming up with their own designs using different more accessible allows to perfect their design capability

Air Force would go do absurd things like attach a cockpit to the tail of an Aircraft to perfect a reverse engineered ejection seats when they hadn't even build vacuumed oven presses to build airframes and rather that just using rails on the ground assisted by rockets that would have achieved even greater speeds at fraction of the price they do something like attach a cockpit to the tail of passenger jet so the notion that they didn't have money or resources is just not true!

Iranian government DOES NOT micro manage how the Air Force chooses to budget it's resources! And if any organization in Iran has access to find unused mines it's the Air Force and there are plenty of them and it's not like the Iranian government is going to come and tell them no you can't mine and produce your own Ti using your own budget or that your not allowed to perfect your Design capability using different alloys!



Like what?? Do you think if the Air Force wanted to invest in Ti production using an unused Ti mine the government would say no?

Well, Yes as up to one to two years ago air force was very low on priority scale.

Your talking on a production scale! Yes on a production scale it would required government funding but building prototype and a few tools to build and test prototype does NOT!
Iran's government does NOT micro manage the way IRIAF spends it money! So yes they could have grounded a handful of aircrafts to pay for whatever raw materials they needed
IRIAF mentality was to buy the alloys and simply cut and build current spare parts needed to keep their fleet flying and they never really went beyond that!

Your making up excuses for them! They have the facilities, they are already paying for manpower, they have a good amount of tools needed to build better tools. And over the span of the last 20-30 YEARS slowly paying for the material cost or custom ordered parts to build themselves a vacuumed oven press or proper advanced cutting equipment attached to single robotic arm does NOT require massive investment when you have all these unused facilities and have the manpower and the relatively low cost for any additional full time personal

And again I am NOT talking production level! I'm talking prototypes or a single finished product so the government & MOD can say yes investing here would make sense because they can clearly do it but I see NOTHING from the IRAF that proves that but clearly we do see that in the IRGC

The majority of investment in F35 was in research phase and producing protype .
Mass production needed a lot less money.
And its while in USA they had access to every technology they wanted ,here air force must first reinvent wheel as nobody is willing to provide it to them .

 

[VEVAK]

Well, Yes as up to one to two years ago air force was very low on priority scale.


The majority of investment in F35 was in research phase and producing protype .
Mass production needed a lot less money.
And its while in USA they had access to every technology they wanted ,here air force must first reinvent wheel as nobody is willing to provide it to them .

You got that wrong production models and production requires FAR more money than a prototype!

A lot of the investment of what you call research phase for the F-35 was of the engine and a platform of a supersonic fighter that can takeoff & Land vertically and the fact that is was a multinational project would cost more the F-35 is simply a bad example! Hell the Harrier was build in the fraction of the time!

FYI prototypes are comparatively easier and far cheaper than production models because they use a lot of already finished products in it's construction and American prices and prices of privet companies are irrelevant because they are made by companies whos number one priority is to make money to make their shareholders happy! And just building the tools and facilities for taking an fighter with all it components to production requires far more money!

Unlike American companies Iran's Air Force does NOT have Janitors that make $40K a year or engineers and designers that make anything from $250K to $1Mill or CEO's that make $100's of millions... Iran's Air Force is already paying for the manpower so how they choose to use them is up to them Iran's Air Force has large number of unused facilities that they can convert to whatever they want whenever they want where as Companies charge even the rent of whatever facilities and equipment used because they are in it to make money!

So all Iran's Air Force would have to pay for additionally is for a few tools to build a single aircraft at a time and material cost!

And when it comes to a large number of components it's simply not in the parameters of Iran's Air Force to make for example Iran's Air Force is not going to site down and make a BLDC motor needed for a fuel pump they'll either use one already in use or send the specs to a company producing them. Iran's Air Force is NOT going to make Solid State transmitters needed in a X-Band AESA radars or MFD or HUD's or Datalinks.....

 

[Oldman1]

US is behind thugs who want to bring war inside Iran. Your president and his appointed morons every day threatening us with sanction and civil war.
Ahvaz terrorist attack is part of US plan to kill and damage Iranian people and destabilize Iran like Syria.
Terrorists who did this freely speak with American backed channels in Europe and get fund from USA.

Yeah sure, you talk about revenge and blame it on the Americans or Great Satan after the attack on the parade.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You got that wrong production models and production requires FAR more money than a prototype!

no it's wrong , any where in the world designing and research cost a lot more than production .
research cost money, they need raw material , you'll design an engine over and over and over and every time you find a fault until you fix all of them , and suddenly you see you can do some part better ,and every time it cost a lot more to built several of the redesigned part compared to when you are mass producing the final product .it's the same when you design the wing or the body .

A lot of the investment of what you call research phase for the F-35 was of the engine and a platform of a supersonic fighter that can takeoff & Land vertically and the fact that is was a multinational project would cost more the F-35 is simply a bad example! Hell the Harrier was build in the fraction of the time!

well , then forget F-35 look at F-18 , F16 , X-2 Shinshin
let make it more clear Chengdu J-20 program in 2011 estimated about 4.4 billion for 8 prototype and 20 airplane or 157 million per plan , after those development phases ended flyway cost of each plane is considered 30-50 million dollar for china .it means the program spend 3.3 billion for development phase and 1.1 billion in production phase

FYI prototypes are comparatively easier and far cheaper than production models because they use a lot of already finished products in it's construction and American prices and prices of privet companies are irrelevant because they are made by companies whos number one priority is to make money to make their shareholders happy! And just building the tools and facilities for taking an fighter with all it components to production requires far more money!

wrong , when you build something new at some stage you had to replace those previously build devices with the one that specially designed for your product and again that won't apply to us because nobody sell us those of the shelf devices

And when it comes to a large number of components it's simply not in the parameters of Iran's Air Force to make for example Iran's Air Force is not going to site down and make a BLDC motor needed for a fuel pump they'll either use one already in use or send the specs to a company producing them. Iran's Air Force is NOT going to make Solid State transmitters needed in a X-Band AESA radars or MFD or HUD's or Datalinks.....

and those company must spend money on designing them , and they charge you on that money

also you can look at TAI TF-X that estimated to cost 50 billion while each plan cost would be 100 million
or f-22 program that cost 67 billion but each plane fly away cost was 150 million in 2009 which means 30 billion at production phase and 37 million at development phase

 

[VEVAK]

no it's wrong , any where in the world designing and research cost a lot more than production .
research cost money, they need raw material , you'll design an engine over and over and over and every time you find a fault until you fix all of them , and suddenly you see you can do some part better ,and every time it cost a lot more to built several of the redesigned part compared to when you are mass producing the final product .it's the same when you design the wing or the body .


well , then forget F-35 look at F-18 , F16 , X-2 Shinshin
let make it more clear Chengdu J-20 program in 2011 estimated about 4.4 billion for 8 prototype and 20 airplane or 157 million per plan , after those development phases ended flyway cost of each plane is considered 30-50 million dollar for china .it means the program spend 3.3 billion for development phase and 1.1 billion in production phase


wrong , when you build something new at some stage you had to replace those previously build devices with the one that specially designed for your product and again that won't apply to us because nobody sell us those of the shelf devices

and those company must spend money on designing them , and they charge you on that money

also you can look at TAI TF-X that estimated to cost 50 billion while each plan cost would be 100 million
or f-22 program that cost 67 billion but each plane fly away cost was 150 million in 2009 which means 30 billion at production phase and 37 million at development phase

You think the marital for a single prototype Airframe that's made out of a lot of existing parts is going cost a lot of money??

You think cutting out the compressor blades a certain way based on newer designs rather than the way your cutting them today is going to cost you a lot of money??? You think improving on the design of your combustion chambers is going to cost you a lot of money? you think having a few guys in a lab mixing different alloy and composites together on a lab scale to try to increase the turbine inlet temperature of their engines will cost a lot of money??? NONE of these things are easy nor achievable very quickly it would require long manhours to accomplish but that is something Iran's Air Force is already paying for regardless! And material cost would cost is NOT the issue and the higher end tools needed should have been built by Iran over a span of time!

These things DO NOT cost a lot of money when your manpower & facility are free or cost next to nothing!

As for material cost costing a lot that is nothing but an illusion!
https://www.metalary.com/titanium-price/

FYI 50 Ton's of Ti = to around canceling 10-20 flight hours of a single F-4 so don't tell me it cost a lot of money!

material DO NOT cost a lot and high prices in the U.S. is mostly due to manpower
Also the MOST expensive tool required would have been a single large vacuum chamber with an oven and a press
that our people could of easily built themselves and it is most definitely not a complicated peace of equipment!

What actually does cost money is doing something as absurd as this
rather than this



And rather than attaching a cockpit to the tail of a passenger aircraft they could of done that and used the rest of the money to build themselves a massive vacuum chamber

And rather than naming a bunch of American Aircraft built by American Companies whos primary goal is to make money and have CEO's that make 100's of Millions a year tell me exactly what part of the research is going to cost a lot of money for the construction of a single Airframe?

 

[Hack-Hook]

You think the marital for a single prototype Airframe that's made out of a lot of existing parts is going cost a lot of money??

You think cutting out the compressor blades a certain way based on newer designs rather than the way your cutting them today is going to cost you a lot of money??? You think improving on the design of your combustion chambers is going to cost you a lot of money? you think having a few guys in a lab mixing different alloy and composites together on a lab scale to try to increase the turbine inlet temperature of their engines will cost a lot of money??? NONE of these things are easy nor achievable very quickly it would require long manhours to accomplish but that is something Iran's Air Force is already paying for regardless! And material cost would cost is NOT the issue and the higher end tools needed should have been built by Iran over a span of time!

These things DO NOT cost a lot of money when your manpower & facility are free or cost next to nothing!

As for material cost costing a lot that is nothing but an illusion!
https://www.metalary.com/titanium-price/

FYI 50 Ton's of Ti = to around canceling 10-20 flight hours of a single F-4 so don't tell me it cost a lot of money!

material DO NOT cost a lot and high prices in the U.S. is mostly due to manpower
Also the MOST expensive tool required would have been a single large vacuum chamber with an oven and a press
that our people could of easily built themselves and it is most definitely not a complicated peace of equipment!

What actually does cost money is doing something as absurd as this
rather than this



And rather than attaching a cockpit to the tail of a passenger aircraft they could of done that and used the rest of the money to build themselves a massive vacuum chamber

And rather than naming a bunch of American Aircraft built by American Companies whos primary goal is to make money and have CEO's that make 100's of Millions a year tell me exactly what part of the research is going to cost a lot of money for the construction of a single Airframe?

Just saying one thing an airplane is defined by all its subsystem not by the shape of its body and economy all around the world follow the same rules .
And yes all around the world research and development take up to 2/3rd of a project and they have all the necessary industry ffor developing a plan we must first build those industries first and then developing the airplane later and it means more money for development phase .

More importantly please tell me which air force around the world build its own airplane that you expect iran air force be the second one ?

And by the way attaching that cockpit to the tail of airplane won't take far more than putting it on ground . and for ejection sit you must do both test not just one of them.

 

[VEVAK]

Just saying one thing an airplane is defined by all its subsystem not by the shape of its body and economy all around the world follow the same rules .
And yes all around the world research and development take up to 2/3rd of a project and they have all the necessary industry ffor developing a plan we must first build those industries first and then developing the airplane later and it means more money for development phase .

More importantly please tell me which air force around the world build its own airplane that you expect iran air force be the second one ?

And by the way attaching that cockpit to the tail of airplane won't take far more than putting it on ground . and for ejection sit you must do both test not just one of them.

Tell me which Air Force around the world has been sanctioned for 40 years whos country has close to Iran's GDP and has the national resources to protect as we do and yet hasn't been allowed to purchase a single modern interceptor strictly needed for Air Defense!

You see your even promoting the same type of mentality that if no other Air Force is doing it then it's not the Air Forces responsibility!!!!!!! If Shahid Tehrani Moghadam had said the same nonsense Iran today wouldn't have a missile force either!

And yes as I said a lot of the components of the Aircraft WOULD NOT fall under the Air Forces responsibility! It wouldn't be the Air Forces responsibility to build new MFD's all they can do in that aspect is research and give specs of what they need to the MOD or Iran's Electronic Industries..... Just as building a processor shouldn't be IRGC aerospace forces responsibilities. No one expects the Airforce to build a generator for an APU all they can do is request for a gene with certain specs and build the fan or whatever they wanna use to turn their APU

But what should fall under the purview of the Air Force is Airframe, Hydraulics, ~90 % of the Engine, landing gear,... and by the most parts where the vast majority components needed to build them are only used in the Air Force. AND ONLY in terms of working prototypes so the designs can be handed to the MOD
no one expects Iran's Air Force to come up with a tire factory so they can put tires on the wheels of their aircraft or start a production line of an Fighter!

Also, THE LARGEST factor in R&D is MANHOURS! And that's something no privet company can afford and even for the MOD they'll be putting money into an Aircraft that the Air Force may never approve of but Iran's Air Force already has individual components they can build a concept or prototype around based on their needs and the manhours put into it can easily be diverted from manhours that's already being paid regardless

 

[Hack-Hook]

And yes as I said a lot of the components of the Aircraft WOULD NOT fall under the Air Forces responsibility! It wouldn't be the Air Forces responsibility to build new MFD's all they can do in that aspect is research and give specs of what they need to the MOD or Iran's Electronic Industries..... Just as building a processor shouldn't be IRGC aerospace forces responsibilities. No one expects the Airforce to build a generator for an APU all they can do is request for a gene with certain specs and build the fan or whatever they wanna use to turn their APU

the problem is here , the guy who is going to develop those things had to spend money to do the development and he want that money returned so at the end its air force who had to give it to them as they develop the systems for only one costumer and that's the military .

But what should fall under the purview of the Air Force is Airframe, Hydraulics, ~90 % of the Engine, landing gear,... and by the most parts where the vast majority components needed to build them are only used in the Air Force. AND ONLY in terms of working prototypes so the designs can be handed to the MOD
no one expects Iran's Air Force to come up with a tire factory so they can put tires on the wheels of their aircraft or start a production line of an Fighter!

well i believe military is the latest place that must produce those system , they must be produced in private sector if you want to have a meaningful defense industry , otherwise you see a system that being recycled for 30 years and I say again its not military duty or even possible for them to advance for example our metallurgy or go out and design electronics we need , these all must be done in universities and private sectors.

Tell me which Air Force around the world has been sanctioned for 40 years whos country has close to Iran's GDP and has the national resources to protect as we do and yet hasn't been allowed to purchase a single modern interceptor strictly needed for Air Defense!

when we had the chance to get interceptor we failed to do that .and no the sanction for aircraft are not 40 years old sanction.

If Shahid Tehrani Moghadam had said the same nonsense Iran today wouldn't have a missile force either!

Shahid Tehrani Moqaddam had the financial might of IRGC behind him , Missile program was the main concern of our military planners for years , Air force for years had the lowest of priority for our military planner and if supreme leader didn't told them to look at the situation of the Air-force it still had one of the lowest priority for our military planners .

 

[zartosht]

Some may say it show the difference in amount of resources they have access to

really pisses me off everytime someone compares IRGCs advancements to branches of Artesh.

the entire artesh gets an official budget 1/4 the size of the IRGC. the IRGC controls 40%~ of irans economy, and are the official protection force of the government. so its pretty safe to say with their unofficial revenue streams, they have a budge at least 10x times that of the artesh. with about 1/3 the size.

in addition, with the exception of the missile forces which everyone gives credit to IRGC to. The artesh has to spend a significant amount of their budget mainting old equipment. The museum airforce, heavy equipment etc...

Now out of that tiny 2~ billion budget. How much of it goes to the air force? how much of it remains after they have spent all that money maintaining their ancient equipment?

its one thing to hear this BS from a foreigner, or some random person. But this individual seems to have indepth knowledge of this stuff. So one cant help but suspect he speaks with an agenda.

theres no need to have a IRGC vs artesh attitude in my opinion. IN the long term the 2 must combine somehow, but in the short term both protect Iranian security in different ways, and must be respected. Lets not disrespect a branch to pump up another

Yeah, I'm shocked that Iran didn't "accidentally" hit the U.S. forces in the region. Just to retaliate for the attack on the Iranian parade.

ask American generals in Iraq how iran hits American military assets if it wants to..... in addition the US just pre-emptively closed down a consulate in a major Iraqi oil city that they are competing with influence with iran. with fear of Iranian attacks....

iran is not stupid. They don't look at CNN propaganda headlines or some trash on TV claiming responsibility. They will still liquidate the trash, but make sure that the trashes masters also pay a price so they don't find new trash to hurt iran with.

Iran has blamed the zio/US alliance, and sauds for this attack. And for good reason

 

[scythian500]

I hate to break this to you, but neither Qiam or Zolfighar is 100% Iranian made. It has foreign raw materials/components.

So unless you can show me proof that Zolfighar or Qiam would cost less than 1 million (quite frankly preposterous especially when you factor in maintenance costs) than you have to use widely published data on other missiles.

Proof for foreign raw material and components please? I,m just asking because you are a huge fond of "Unless you show me proof"

 

[TheImmortal]

Proof for foreign raw material and components please? I,m just asking because you are a huge fond of "Unless you show me proof"

Stop being a wise *** and google

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wa...s/2017/feb/8/chinese-sent-iran-missile-parts/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0096340213485948?src=recsys&journalCode=rbul20

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-for-iran-seized-at-heathrow-airport-1.756586

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE9610F520130702

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...-reveals-irans-secret-worldwide-arms-hunt/amp

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2010_10/Pomper-Harvey


Of course you can always believe @VEVAK (who is a sci fi version of babak taghavee) and says Iran is 100% self sufficient in everything and can build a Fateh-110 for the cost of a Peykan and some jujeh kabob

 

[Draco.IMF]

Stop being a wise *** and google

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wa...s/2017/feb/8/chinese-sent-iran-missile-parts/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0096340213485948?src=recsys&journalCode=rbul20

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-for-iran-seized-at-heathrow-airport-1.756586

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE9610F520130702

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...-reveals-irans-secret-worldwide-arms-hunt/amp

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2010_10/Pomper-Harvey


Of course you can always believe @VEVAK (who is a sci fi version of babak taghavee) and says Iran is 100% self sufficient in everything and can build a Fateh-110 for the cost of a Peykan and some jujeh kabob

Qoting some western MSM articles as "sources"...
and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction..well
BABAK? Is that you?