Indonesia Maritime defence and security issue

[papacita]

Those aid packages are basically a form of courtesy. Indonesia also gives aid packages to other countries around the world. Not a big deal.

Yup, just hate it whenever someone bringing up that issue as if we're living off of their aid money.

I'm not sure if this does fit here but

Jakarta, KL and Manila agree on joint army training to fight piracy

JAKARTA • Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines have agreed to initiate joint army training to advance efforts to secure the Sulu Sea from rampant piracy.

Indonesian Defence Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said each country would begin its own army personnel training in January next year before conducting joint training later in the year.

The training will take place in Tarakan in Indonesia's North Kalimantan province, Malaysia's Tawao Island and the Philippines' Bongao Island.

Mr Ryamizard said army personnel set to participate in the joint training would form a special force tasked with facing the notorious Abu Sayyaf militant group, which has masterminded a series of recent kidnappings in the Sulu Sea in the south-western Philippines.

"It's part of a concrete action we Asean countries are taking to secure the region," he said in Jakarta on Thursday.

He said the training locations would later become posts for a joint task force assigned to help secure Sulu waters.

The need for joint army training was discussed during a meeting between Mr Ryamizard and his Malaysian and Philippine counterparts, Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein and Major-General Delfin Lorenzana, held on the sidelines of the Asean Defence Ministers' Meeting retreat earlier this week in Laos.

Malaysia and the Philippines welcomed the initiative, which will add to a joint sea patrol in the Sulu Sea that the three neighbours previously agreed on.

JAKARTA POST/ASIA NEWS NETWORK

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...-agree-on-joint-army-training-to-fight-piracy

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Aid are meant to help a country in need not to put said country in anothers debt.

End of story now continue with the program

 

[katarabhumi]

RI rejects its former colonial master’s warship complaint

The Jakarta Post - 18 November 2016

The government has denied any wrongdoing in the disappearance of Dutch World War II shipwrecks on the grounds that the Dutch government never asked for Indonesia’s participation in preserving the war graves since their discovery in 2002. However, it offered its readiness to set up a joint team to investigate the case.

“The best step to take is to run an investigation. We [will] form a special team to investigate together,” the Education and Culture Ministry’s culture director general, Hilmar Farid, told The Jakarta Post on Friday.

He said from Indonesia, the joint team would consist of his ministry, the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry and the Indonesian Navy.

“But the final form has not been agreed to yet because we still don’t know the terms and conditions that the Netherlands want. But we are preparing ourselves,” said Hilmar.

Hilmar added that Indonesia’s proposal to form a joint team would be further discussed when Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte visited Indonesia from Nov. 21 to 23, his second visit in three years.

Besides the planned investigation, Hilmar said the government also planned to work out the problem through diplomatic channels.

“Three weeks ago, they conducted another expedition without inviting the Education and Culture Ministry and the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry. So we don’t have any information,” Hilmar said. “If they ask how the shipwrecks could vanish, well, we don’t even know that they were there in the first place.”

The three ships were suspected to have been ravaged by scavengers. A recreational diving school in Malaysia told the New Straits Times last year that the shipwrecks were blown apart using explosives by people posing as fishermen before metal from the wrecks was removed.

At least six British and Dutch shipwrecks have vanished from the Java Sea’s bed. The ships were lost in 1942 during the Battle of the Java Sea against Japanese military forces. The Dutch occupied Indonesia for more than three centuries. When Indonesia declared its independence on Aug. 17, 1945, the Netherlands refused to recognize it and only changed its mind in 1949.

Padjajaran University history lecturer Nina Herlina Lubis said the three missing ships held significant historical value for the Dutch as the wrecks had been declared sacred war graves to pay respects to the roughly 2,200 people who died during the battle, including 900 Dutch nationals and 250 people of Indonesian-Dutch origins.

The battle was one of the costliest sea battles of the war and led to the Japanese occupation of the entire Dutch East Indies.

“The sinking ships are important for the Dutch as proof of their navy’s heroism, with their admiral, Karel Doorman, posthumously honored as a national hero,” Nina told the Post.

However, for Indonesians, the shipwrecks only served as a historical reminder of how the colonialists tried to defend its power from the Japanese, who in the end succeeded in occupying Indonesia, she said.

“So for them, the shipwrecks are important to be preserved. For us, we have to look at the scale of priority. There are still a lot of our historical remnants that have not been conserved due to limited funding and human resources,” she said.

“So if the shipwrecks are to be preserved, they [the Dutch] have to take the initiative. We help only in our capacity,” Nina added.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/11/19/ri-rejects-its-former-colonial-master-s-warship-complaint.html

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Philippine-flagged vessel busted over alleged goods smuggling

The Wallace Line sea patrol led by the North Sulawesi Customs and Excise Directorate General arrested a Philippine-flagged vessel as it allegedly attempted to smuggle goods into the province.

Suspected -- North Sulawesi Customs and Excise officials escort crew members of a Philippine-flagged vessel arrested for alleged goods smuggling in an operation in Sangihe waters at the end of October. (JP/Lita Aruperes)

“The vessel was caught at the end of October. On account of several reasons, such as completing our investigation and coordination with the Philippine Consulate General, we were only able to inform the public of the arrest today,” said Agus Amiwijaya, the head of the investigation and legal measure division at the directorate general, in a press conference on Thursday.

He further said the foreign vessel, identified as the Rod Race machine vessel, and its crew members were arrested while it was in Sangihe regency waters in North Sulawesi.

“They departed from General Santos, southern Philippines, to Tinakareng, Sangihe. The vessel carried five crew members and goods they would smuggle,” said Agus.

After an examination, officers reportedly found that none of the goods had proper customs documents. They comprised 708 bottles of Carlo Rossi wine, 60 bottles of Tanduay Rhum, 27 boxes of cattle supplements, 2,556 bottles of Coca Cola, 4,716 bottles of supplement drinks and 60 cans of juice, which were all confiscated by the officers.

“They are worth Rp 2.49 billion [US$ 186,723.47],” said Agus, adding that the sea patrol officers also seized the vessel and handed it over to the Bitung Customs and Excise Office for further investigation.

Agus said investigators had questioned all crew members. “They have been named suspects. They have been charged under Law No.10/1995 in reference to Law No.17/2006 on customs,” he said. (ebf)

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...ssel-busted-over-alleged-goods-smuggling.html

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Singapore anglers avoiding Indonesian waters

Fewer recreational fishermen have been heading to Indonesia for deep-sea fishing trips since 28 people - nearly all Singaporean anglers - were arrested for alleged trespassing and immigration offences earlier this year. Members of the fishing community here say Singaporeans are instead heading for waters here or in Malaysia.

Mr Ivan Goh, chief guide of Deep Sea Fishing, with a giant trevally caught last year in East Kalimantan, Indonesia.

Two Singaporean boat captains, Shoo Chiau Huat and Ricky Tan Poh Hui, remain in Indonesian custody pending their court hearings in the Riau Islands' provincial capital of Tanjung Pinang.

Shoo was arrested on April 16 in Tanjung Berakit, off Bintan, while Tan and his crew and passengers were caught on Aug 21.

Their passengers, mainly anglers, were deported shortly after being detained but the captains were held for trespassing or immigration offences.

Earlier this month, 10 Singaporean anglers were also stopped for sailing in an unlicensed boat off Bintan island.

Their Indonesian-flagged vessel was said to be sailing in Indonesian waters without valid permits and a proper passenger manifest.

The Sunday Times understands that all 10 passengers on the fishing boat have been released and since returned to the country.

Indonesia has been increasing sea patrols - mainly targeting illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing - since President Joko Widodo announced plans to beef up the country's fisheries sector last year.

Anyone who enters Indonesia illegally could spend up to a year in prison, while infringement of the Fisheries Act - which covers illegal fishing - carries a sentence of up to five years in jail.

Mr Joe Ng, 60, owner of Joe Fishing Tackle in Beach Road, estimates that there has been more than a 50-per-cent drop in the number of anglers travelling to Indonesia. He has been in the fishing business for more than 20 years and used to travel to Indonesian waters.

"Those who go regularly to Indonesia to fish are generally above the age of 40," he said. "Such trips often involve spending nights on a boat and can be uncomfortable for the inexperienced."

But anglers enjoy fishing there as they catch more as well as land bigger fish.

Mr Augustine Chai, 48, owner of trip organiser Fishing Affairs, said that since the incidents, around half his customers who were heading to Indonesia either cancelled their packages or chose a local fishing trip. He added that boat captains are being cautious. "Instead of staying 1km away from territorial borders, some stay 2km or more away."

Mr Soh Hoe Jiang, 50, a fishing boat charter operator and boat captain of 16 years, sails to Indonesian waters about twice a week but has seen a fall in bookings.

"Our operations now involve clearance, such as passport and port clearances and customs declarations, with Indonesian authorities before we fish in their waters," he said, adding that customers fish for leisure and not profit. "Problems arise when they consider us commercial fishermen."

Mr Ivan Goh, 37, chief guide of Deep Sea Fishing, which runs fishing charters, said the firm has stopped making trips to Indonesian waters where the incidents took place as a "precaution". While he will be taking customers on a trip to Indonesia next month, he said, they will head to East Kalimantan, further from the area where the arrests took place. The group intends to travel by plane before going out to sea on an Indonesian-flagged vessel.

He added that anglers are attracted to fishing in Indonesia because of the different species found there, such as large stingrays and shovelnose sharks.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-anglers-avoiding-indonesian-waters



Kemenhub Kerahkan Kapal Patroli Cari Korban Tabrakan Kapal di Tuban

KNP Grantin P 211 milik Pangkalan PLP Kelas II Tanjung Perak Surabaya dan KNP 50018/V-13 milik KUPP Brondong telah dikerahkan dan telah bergabung dengan Tim SAR untuk mencari korban yang belum ditemukan

http://news.detik.com/berita/d-3349...l-patroli-cari-korban-tabrakan-kapal-di-tuban

 

[katarabhumi]

Kemenhub Kerahkan Kapal Patroli cari Korban Tabrakan Kapal di Tubananglers avoiding Indonesian waters

KNP Grantin P 211 milik Pangkalan PLP Kelas II Tanjung Perak Surabaya dan KNP 50018/V-13 milik KUPP Brondong telah dikerahkan dan telah bergabung dengan Tim SAR untuk mencari korban yang belum ditemukan

http://news.detik.com/berita/d-3349...l-patroli-cari-korban-tabrakan-kapal-di-tuban

Apparently it was caused by collision between Indonesian boat and Vietnamese boat. 15 are still missing.

https://www.enterberita.com/kapal-t...l-vietnam-15-nelayan-juwana-hilang-laut-jawa/

...

Viet boat operate that far south into Java sea?.. hope they're not poachers.

.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Apparently it was caused by collision between Indonesian boat and Vietnamese boat. 15 are still missing. Viet boat operate that far south into Java sea?.. hope they're not poachers.

Other sources said that it is Thailand cargo vessel, loaded with tapioca flour to be unloaded at Tanjung Perak port, Surabaya.

 

[Penguin]

1. The reason behind your plan of cutting budget is because your economy is in a downfall, not due to the recent event... Our economic growth even higher than yours... Be real... We are much more richer than yours

2. If you take a piss at our war grave, the military police whom guarding the tomb will surely smack you in the head... Hehehe... Go ahead, give it a try

3. No more supply for our dutch sourced ships.... HAHAHA... Your shipyard came to us, and proposed us to buy ships from them.... And not the other way around... You need our money, dutchmen... And not the other way around...

4. Just wait dutchy... Until we struck a deal with the Dannish on our warship acquisition... It will be the same as in leopard acquisition... The dutchy playing hard to get, we bought it straight from the source, to the German... Later on the dutch is came in running towards the German, insisting that their leopard must be put inside the deal... Tipical dutchy...

5. YOU NEED OUR MONEY DUTCHY... AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND... Wake up...

Indonesia Government Budget 1988-2016

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/indonesia/government-budget

Netherlands Government Budget 1995-2016

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherlands/government-budget

Sourpuss

We treat our war dead as hero, build monument for them
But if it's not our war dead, well... nothing, and about their shipwreck .... nothing
Soekarno said "bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghormati jasa para pahlawannya" well yeah we pretty much honour our war dead hero.

So, you disrespect any Indonesians that fought the Japanese?

That's not our problem, but more like them. Perhaps that's Dutch government way to save money for something else? I know situation is difficult nowadays for EU including Netherlands. I say thanks for Dutch government, but if they stop it then it won't affect us at all. The number of development aid from Netherland is approx $65 million, we have GDP near $1 trillion and govt budget of $160 billion, $65 million more or less is not a problem.

If $65 million more or less is not a problem, then why not spend it on some conservation?

Not your decision. Also we aren't getting them for free so stop talking as if we beg for them, it's a business. They pull out, they'll lose money while we still can look for other options elsewhere. Don't be ridiculous.

All 6 of the Indonesian navy frigates (Ahmad Yabi class) are Dutch built. As are 7 of 10 corvettes (3 Fatahillah class and 4 Diponegoro class). So, that is 13 out of 16 of you major surface combattants (combat ships over 1000 tons) and all of your major surface combattants over 2000 tons). No delivery of spare parts would present a problem in terms of keeping these operational, I would think. Replacing these on short notice with other, equivalent ships (new or used) would be 'challenging'.

 

[papacita]

Sourpuss

Budget deficit is neither good nor bad, it depends on many factors. Deficits could actually be favourable for a developing country like Indonesia, it could help to boost our growth (still one of the fastest growing big economy today), and a sign of more trust to our credit ratings, which is a good thing.

Bigger picture, our external debt is still only around 37% of our GDP, while Netherland is already more than 310% of GDP, good luck with that.

All 6 of the Indonesian navy frigates (Ahmad Yabi class) are Dutch built. As are 7 of 10 corvettes (3 Fatahillah class and 4 Diponegoro class). So, that is 13 out of 16 of you major surface combattants (combat ships over 1000 tons) and all of your major surface combattants over 2000 tons). No delivery of spare parts would present a problem in terms of keeping these operational, I would think. Replacing these on short notice with other, equivalent ships (new or used) would be 'challenging'.

Again, not your decision. Do I have to repeat myself? This is business, every actions will have consequences, the only probability of that happening is if Indonesia goes to war against Netherland, which is not happening. We are talking about hundreds million euros of business, and potentially to billions. Not a small matter that you can break just to satisfy one person ego on internet forum.


Vietnam, Indonesia to bolster security ties
President Tran Dai Quang and Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla have agreed to deepen bilateral collaboration in marine security and prevention of terrorism and organised crime.

The two reached the agreement at their meeting in Lima, Peru, on November 18, on the sidelines of the 24th High-level Week of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Forum from November 17-20.

They also reached consensus on strengthening coordination at multilateral forums, especially in maintaining regional and global peace and stability, and promoting effort to address disputes in the East Sea peacefully and in line with international law.

President Tran Dai Quang proposed Vietnam and Indonesia soon organise the seventh meeting of the joint committee to seek specific measures towards achieving the target of 10 billion USD in bilateral trade in 2018.

He asked Indonesia to give humanitarian treatment to detained Vietnamese fishermen in the spirit of the two countries’ traditional friendship and cooperation.

The Vietnamese President extended an invitation to visit Vietnam in 2017 to Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

For his part, Vice President Jusuf Kalla confirmed that Indonesia always wants to increase the friendship and multi-faceted cooperation with Vietnam, especially in people-to-people and business exchanges.-VNA

 

[Nike]

Indonesia Government Budget 1988-2016

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/indonesia/government-budget

Netherlands Government Budget 1995-2016

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherlands/government-budget

Sourpuss


So, you disrespect any Indonesians that fought the Japanese?


If $65 million more or less is not a problem, then why not spend it on some conservation?


All 6 of the Indonesian navy frigates (Ahmad Yabi class) are Dutch built. As are 7 of 10 corvettes (3 Fatahillah class and 4 Diponegoro class). So, that is 13 out of 16 of you major surface combattants (combat ships over 1000 tons) and all of your major surface combattants over 2000 tons). No delivery of spare parts would present a problem in terms of keeping these operational, I would think. Replacing these on short notice with other, equivalent ships (new or used) would be 'challenging'.

ehmmm

Netherland and Indonesia relationship is really cordial and warm nowadays, so this relatively small matter from the past should not affect the whole bigger pictures. But if you think all of the reservation should be burdened to Indonesian it's a whole wrong idea. You should not thinking from your Country only POV, but taking it from our sides too

First, the ABDACOM who fought against Japan in Java Sea is doing that for their own purpose and National interest in this case is to protect their colonies here in Netherland Dutch Indies, Singapore and Malaysian, so naturally their defeats is not our Independence Movement concern, naturally it was a blessing for us when both the Colonial powers (Allies against Japan) fighting each other, bleed each other to the point into making the Vacuum of Power after 1945 it served for our own purpose. So naturally there is no importance for us to protect or getting in touch those sunken ships, but left it for good alone and don't touch it will be better (no one knows what kind of harm still being left in those Warships). Second, the Dutch sell their product to Indonesia, including warship along with ToT is part of bilateral trade relationship, fortunately cool heads prevailed among the elites who decides these deals.

Dutch hope Indonesia will help solve mystery of missing WW II battleships
Sabtu, 19 November 2016 19:04 WIB | 688 Views

Amsterdam/Jakarta (ANTARA News/Reuters) - The Dutch prime minister on Friday called the disappearance of the wreckage of several allied warships dating back to the 1942 Battle of the Java Sea "unacceptable" and expressed hope that Indonesia would help solve the mystery.

A team of international divers searching for Dutch, British and American warships ahead of the 75th anniversary of the decisive World War Two battle discovered that two Dutch ships, the De Ruyter and the Java, are no longer where they sank, the Dutch Defence Ministry said. Part of a third ship, the Kortenaer, had also disappeared.

The three ships were part of a fleet of allied vessels, including Australians, that set off from the last remaining allied port in Southeast Asia, the Indonesian city of Surabaya, to stop the Japanese advance. It was defeated and thousands were killed when the vessels were sunk.

"The fact alone that war graves were violated is an extremely serious matter, with far reaching implications for the survivors and for all of us," Rutte told journalists in The Hague on Friday.

Rutte said the removal of the underwater graves of nearly 1,000 Dutch marines would be discussed during a government trade mission to Indonesia next week.

"Imagine that a war cemetery ... would be seriously damaged or desecrated, that would be totally unacceptable and the same counts for what happened here," he said.

Indonesian Navy spokesman Gig Jonias Mozes Sipasulta said the ships should have been protected under international law.

"Normally in these cases those places can be turned into heritage sites, but for this there needs to be a discussion and a written request from the government of the country that feels they own the vessel, with the Indonesian government," he said.

Rutte said "the Indonesians are working with us to get to the bottom of this" and that it was unclear who was responsible for removing the remains, which may have been salvaged for scrap.

The search for the ships was initiated by the Karel Doorman Fund, named after a Dutchman who led the doomed allied naval assault in February 1942. (*)

http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/1...lp-solve-mystery-of-missing-ww-ii-battleships

naturally i would expect some foreign companies whose finance those activities, along with their local partner. The same case happened around the world, and i thought most of this happened during our financial troubled times from 1998 until 2006 time span...

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Stop acting ignorant!

 

[Penguin]

ehmmm

Netherland and Indonesia relationship is really cordial and warm nowadays, so this relatively small matter from the past should not affect the whole bigger pictures. But if you think all of the reservation should be burdened to Indonesian it's a whole wrong idea. You should not thinking from your Country only POV, but taking it from our sides too
.

I'm perfectly willing to look at both sides. However, I'm not willing to accept the outright hostile, disrespectful and insulting responses I'm getting here (for which I gave no excuse). It takes two to tango.

 

[papacita]

I'm perfectly willing to look at both sides. However, I'm not willing to accept the outright hostile, disrespectful and insulting responses I'm getting here (for which I gave no excuse). It takes two to tango.

People won't be hostile or disrespectful if you were not being provocative, like bringing up aid issue or saying ridiculous things like stopping parts supply for Dutch sourced navy ships. The world doesn't revolve around you, you know, to earn respect you must show respect.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

However, I'm not willing to accept the outright hostile, disrespectful and insulting responses I'm getting here (for which I gave no excuse). It takes two to tango.

Nah, it's you that first questioning our Integrity, while we already telling you that it's a matter of priority. So a little bit of hostile responds are expected.

Still, how about doing the right thing (even when not explicitly asked)? That would be called integrity.

 

[Penguin]

People won't be hostile or disrespectful if you were not being provocative, like bringing up aid issue or saying ridiculous things like stopping parts supply for Dutch sourced navy ships. The world doesn't revolve around you, you know, to earn respect you must show respect.

Quote my provocative post or portions thereoff. THere was none of the above untill after hostile posts here.

Nah, it's you that first qestioning our Integrity, while we already telling you that it's a matter of priority. So a little bit of hostile responds are expected.

Quote it. View the sequence of the thread.