Indonesia Maritime defence and security issue

[afiq0110]

Hopefully it'll reduce within "4 years" -as planned.. Oh, can't wait.

.

Hopefully... Nice choice of word...

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Photos update for the 8 illegal fishing boats from vietnam that was seized on 8/11 and their crews.
http://foto.kompas.com/photo/detail...ap.Ikan.Secara.Ilegal.8.Kapal.Vietnam.Ditahan

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Indonesia says not to blame for missing WWII shipwrecks

Indonesia refused to take the blame Thursday for the disappearance of at least six British and Dutch World War II shipwrecks -- considered war graves -- that investigators believe could have been salvaged for scrap.

Former colonial ruler The Netherlands has launched a probe into how three Dutch navy ships seemingly vanished from the bed of the Java Sea, while Britain has urged Indonesia to investigate what has happened to three of its vessels.

It is believed the military wrecks -- lost in 1942 during the Battle of the Java Sea -- were removed by illegal scavengers looking for scrap metal, an effort that could have taken years.

More than 900 Dutch and 250 Indo-Dutch sailors died during the battle in which the Allied navies suffered a disastrous defeat by the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Indonesian authorities have sought to distance themselves from the mystery, saying they could not be expected to protect the sites without assistance.

"The Dutch government cannot blame the Indonesian government because they never asked us to protect those ships," said Bambang Budi Utomo, head of the National Archeological Centre under the Ministry of Education and Culture.

"As there was no agreement or announcement, when the ships go missing, it is not our responsibility."

Amateur divers in 2002 discovered the long-lost wrecks of three Dutch ships, 60 years after they sank while in action against Japanese forces.

But an international expedition that sailed to the wreck site ahead of next year's 75th anniversary of the battle was shocked to discover the wrecks had vanished.

Britain expressed its distress at the disappearance of its own warships and asked Indonesia to "take appropriate action" to protect the sites from further disturbance.

But Utomo said Indonesia did not have the resources to maintain a constant patrol over its vast archipelago, a hotspot for other criminal enterprises like illegal fishing and people smuggling.

- 'Looters are fearless' -

Treasure hunters and scrap collectors are lured to Indonesia's relic-rich seas, experts say, where countless vessels have gone to a watery grave over centuries of trade, colonial conquest and war.

"Looting is really huge, not only on these World War II shipwrecks, but also on ancient shipwrecks," said Veronique Degroot, a Jakarta-based archaeologist.

The prize find for scavengers targeting the warships would be the huge bronze propellers used to power these juggernauts -- a far more lucrative find than iron or other scrap, according to Utomo.

"The looting must have been going on for years for such a huge ship to disappear," he said.

"Looters are fearless," he added, saying that divers risked death and injury sucking air through tubes to retrieve valuable scrap and antiquities, taking the wreck apart piece by piece.

While some larger, commercial operations use cranes and platforms to wrench heavy loads from the seabed, smaller ventures keep a low profile as they ship metal to scrapyards along Indonesia's thousands of kilometres of coastline.

Australia has been working closely with Indonesia to protect HMAS Perth -- which sunk off Java in World War II, claiming hundreds of lives -- after discovering in 2013 that the warship was being plundered for brass.

A spokesman for the Indonesian navy said the missing ships should not have been disturbed as they were war graves.

"However, the Indonesian navy cannot monitor all areas all the time," spokesman Gig Jonias Mozes Sipasulta told AFP.

"If they ask why the ships are missing, I'm going to ask them back, why didn't they guard the ships? They should have been more proactive."

Naval warships and war graves are protected under international law that makes the desecration of such shipwrecks illegal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indonesia-says-not-blame-missing-wwii-shipwrecks-094751305.html

 

[ahojunk]

Indonesian authorities have sought to distance themselves from the mystery, saying they could not be expected to protect the sites without assistance.

"The Dutch government cannot blame the Indonesian government because they never asked us to protect those ships," said Bambang Budi Utomo, head of the National Archeological Centre under the Ministry of Education and Culture.

"As there was no agreement or announcement, when the ships go missing, it is not our responsibility."

I agree that Indonesia cannot be blamed for this.

Advanced countries should not expect developing countries to protect their stuff without any assistance.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Embassy seeks return of fishermen detained in Indonesia

The Cambodian Embassy in Indonesia will seek the repatriation of 16 Cambodian fishermen who have been detained more than three months for fishing illegally in the country’s territory, Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesman Chum Sounry said yesterday.

According to a press release issued by the Foreign Ministry, 18 men were arrested by Indonesian authorities on July 28 while fishing illegally in the country’s waters from a Thai vessel.

They were subsequently detained at an immigration holding centre on Indonesia’s Riau Island for three months before 16 of them – who carried valid Cambodian passports – were sent to an immigration office in Tanjung Pinang town, where they were interviewed by Cambodian Embassy officials from last Thursday to Sunday and confirmed to be Cambodians.

“The embassy will intervene and [allow them to be] repatriated as soon as possible,” Sounry said, adding that the fishermen had crossed over to Thailand at the end of June and then to Malaysia, where they fished for 20 days before entering Indonesian waters.

The remaining two – who were not carrying any passports – remained behind as witnesses to file a complaint against the illegal fishing boat’s owner.

“The boat owner promised to pay them 5,000 baht [$141] per month. They worked at least 15 hours a day with little rest and food,” he added.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/embassy-seeks-return-fishermen-detained-indonesia

 

[Boss Dragun]

I agree that Indonesia cannot be blamed for this.

Advanced countries should not expect developing countries to protect their stuff without any assistance.

Exactly. If those moldy wreckages so precious for them, then why don't they salvage the wreckage and bring them back to their own country? There is no point on issuing patrols to look out for these wrecks too, unless they want to pollute our waters. This is so typical of them europeean hypocrites.

We cannot be the one responsible over some foreigner's crap on our seas. (and land too for that matters). If they don't take it then they don't need it. we are free to do anything on our sea.

Indonesia says not to blame for missing WWII shipwrecks

Indonesia refused to take the blame Thursday for the disappearance of at least six British and Dutch World War II shipwrecks -- considered war graves -- that investigators believe could have been salvaged for scrap.

Former colonial ruler The Netherlands has launched a probe into how three Dutch navy ships seemingly vanished from the bed of the Java Sea, while Britain has urged Indonesia to investigate what has happened to three of its vessels.

It is believed the military wrecks -- lost in 1942 during the Battle of the Java Sea -- were removed by illegal scavengers looking for scrap metal, an effort that could have taken years.

More than 900 Dutch and 250 Indo-Dutch sailors died during the battle in which the Allied navies suffered a disastrous defeat by the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Indonesian authorities have sought to distance themselves from the mystery, saying they could not be expected to protect the sites without assistance.

"The Dutch government cannot blame the Indonesian government because they never asked us to protect those ships," said Bambang Budi Utomo, head of the National Archeological Centre under the Ministry of Education and Culture.

"As there was no agreement or announcement, when the ships go missing, it is not our responsibility."

Amateur divers in 2002 discovered the long-lost wrecks of three Dutch ships, 60 years after they sank while in action against Japanese forces.

But an international expedition that sailed to the wreck site ahead of next year's 75th anniversary of the battle was shocked to discover the wrecks had vanished.

Britain expressed its distress at the disappearance of its own warships and asked Indonesia to "take appropriate action" to protect the sites from further disturbance.

But Utomo said Indonesia did not have the resources to maintain a constant patrol over its vast archipelago, a hotspot for other criminal enterprises like illegal fishing and people smuggling.

- 'Looters are fearless' -

Treasure hunters and scrap collectors are lured to Indonesia's relic-rich seas, experts say, where countless vessels have gone to a watery grave over centuries of trade, colonial conquest and war.

"Looting is really huge, not only on these World War II shipwrecks, but also on ancient shipwrecks," said Veronique Degroot, a Jakarta-based archaeologist.

The prize find for scavengers targeting the warships would be the huge bronze propellers used to power these juggernauts -- a far more lucrative find than iron or other scrap, according to Utomo.

"The looting must have been going on for years for such a huge ship to disappear," he said.

"Looters are fearless," he added, saying that divers risked death and injury sucking air through tubes to retrieve valuable scrap and antiquities, taking the wreck apart piece by piece.

While some larger, commercial operations use cranes and platforms to wrench heavy loads from the seabed, smaller ventures keep a low profile as they ship metal to scrapyards along Indonesia's thousands of kilometres of coastline.

Australia has been working closely with Indonesia to protect HMAS Perth -- which sunk off Java in World War II, claiming hundreds of lives -- after discovering in 2013 that the warship was being plundered for brass.

A spokesman for the Indonesian navy said the missing ships should not have been disturbed as they were war graves.

"However, the Indonesian navy cannot monitor all areas all the time," spokesman Gig Jonias Mozes Sipasulta told AFP.

"If they ask why the ships are missing, I'm going to ask them back, why didn't they guard the ships? They should have been more proactive."

Naval warships and war graves are protected under international law that makes the desecration of such shipwrecks illegal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indonesia-says-not-blame-missing-wwii-shipwrecks-094751305.html

@Penguin

 

[pr1v4t33r]

I agree that Indonesia cannot be blamed for this. Advanced countries should not expect developing countries to protect their stuff without any assistance.

True, we have no problem protecting those site, but they have to provide all the assistance we need to do so. Information, Training, and FUNDS!

We won't wasting our resources for free

 

[Boss Dragun]

True, we have no problem protecting those site, but they have to provide all the assistance we need to do so. Information, Training, and FUNDS!

We won't wasting our resources for free

Pretty sure they cannot afford to fund since there never any requests from them, period. If there even any requests, the amount would be too big when compared to australia's. I'd suggest the govt to make salvaging companies to get these relics as they have high values for recycling. In merica, the govt owns the salvager. We should follow their examples.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

I'd suggest the govt to make salvaging companies to get these relics as they have high values for recycling. In merica, the govt owns the salvager. We should follow their examples.

Let Maduranese take care of this job, that's their specialty.

 

[Penguin]

Exactly. If those moldy wreckages so precious for them, then why don't they salvage the wreckage and bring them back to their own country? There is no point on issuing patrols to look out for these wrecks too, unless they want to pollute our waters. This is so typical of them europeean hypocrites.

We cannot be the one responsible over some foreigner's crap on our seas. (and land too for that matters). If they don't take it then they don't need it. we are free to do anything on our sea.



@Penguin

Not a new issue
Divers set to plunder battleship war graves
27 Aug 2000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1367784/Divers-set-to-plunder-battleship-war-graves.html

Also applies to civilian ships, e.g. taking things from Titanic


NOteworthy:
"
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "As things stand, it is illegal for war graves to be disturbed in UK waters, or by British subjects in international waters. Within the past week we have reinforced and related existing standing instructions to the British High Commission in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to make representations to host governments, relaying our concerns over the activities of divers and salvage operators which have been recently taking place in the vicinity of both vessels.

"It is true, however, that as both British vessels lie in international waters, we must rely on the co-operation of both governments." The MoD is sympathetic to the campaign's call for additional recognition for the graves under the 1986 Protection of Military Remains Act, but acknowledges that there would be little chance of preventing determined scavengers unless the Act was adopted internationally."

Unfortunately, there is no such international agreement
https://books.google.nl/books?id=Qh...rgraves sea "international agreement"&f=false

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UQLRS/2002/2.html

Still, how about doing the right thing (even when not explicitly asked)? That would be called integrity.

 

[afiq0110]

Not a new issue
Divers set to plunder battleship war graves
27 Aug 2000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1367784/Divers-set-to-plunder-battleship-war-graves.html

Also applies to civilian ships, e.g. taking things from Titanic


NOteworthy:
"
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "As things stand, it is illegal for war graves to be disturbed in UK waters, or by British subjects in international waters. Within the past week we have reinforced and related existing standing instructions to the British High Commission in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to make representations to host governments, relaying our concerns over the activities of divers and salvage operators which have been recently taking place in the vicinity of both vessels.

"It is true, however, that as both British vessels lie in international waters, we must rely on the co-operation of both governments." The MoD is sympathetic to the campaign's call for additional recognition for the graves under the 1986 Protection of Military Remains Act, but acknowledges that there would be little chance of preventing determined scavengers unless the Act was adopted internationally."

Unfortunately, there is no such international agreement
https://books.google.nl/books?id=Qh...rgraves sea "international agreement"&f=false

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UQLRS/2002/2.html

Still, how about doing the right thing (even when not explicitly asked)? That would be called integrity.

It cost money my dear friend... And we dont benefit directly from it in whatsoever... Unless there is enough diving tourist to generate money from the historic artefac...

I dont mind spending money, bit in usefull terms... Guarding a wreck down below the sea is not worthed our muchly needed money...

If the british care about it so much, they should provide the fund

 

[pr1v4t33r]

New speed boat for Marine & Fishery Patrol launched at Palindo Marine Shipyard

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

It cost money my dear friend... And we dont benefit directly from it in whatsoever... Unless there is enough diving tourist to generate money from the historic artefac...

I dont mind spending money, bit in usefull terms... Guarding a wreck down below the sea is not worthed our muchly needed money...

If the british care about it so much, they should provide the fund

Most policy doesnt benefit people directly, but the battle of Java sea is a historicaly significant event worth preserving.

We could keep the wreckages as a reminder on how the ABCD forces got their asses handed to them.

 

[Penguin]

It cost money my dear friend... And we dont benefit directly from it in whatsoever... Unless there is enough diving tourist to generate money from the historic artefac...

I dont mind spending money, bit in usefull terms... Guarding a wreck down below the sea is not worthed our muchly needed money...

If the british care about it so much, they should provide the fund

No it doesn't. It just takes respect for the dead. How do you treat your own war dead?

 

[Nike]

actually i am all in preserving the historical wreckage, besides on those sites lies the remains of the fallen soldiers of respective countries, its a good remainder for us there is always lies threat from the North