Indonesia eyes Eurofighters to check China’s threat

[Figaro]

China is crazy..
They are the only country at this moment in this world to have Two Production Line for Aircraft Carrier, Two Production Line for LHD & LHA, and World's Largest Nuclear Submarine Factory.

And they did that with Budget Defence only a mere 2% of their GDP, imagine if they up their defence budget to 4% of GDP like US


China GDP in 2030 beyond will leaving others in the dust
View attachment 657231

So NO chance for the US to Win a Long-term Arms Race with China. That's why they want to 'Kill' China at this moment.

But Covid19 and BLM Riot & Protests across their country, just Accelerate China's Economy to leaving the US faster
View attachment 657232

Your graph is GDP PPP not GDP nominal

 

[Daniel808]

Your graph is GDP PPP not GDP nominal

Chinese is not Arms Importer like our indian friend.

Most Chinese Arms are from their Domestic Arms Industry, their Military pay them with Yuan. So PPP GDP is a good measurement to calculate Chinese Defence Budget Capability.

If they Arms Importer like Indian, they pay Foreign Arms Industry with Dollar, so GDP Nominal will be a good measurement for indian

 

[Figaro]

Chinese is not Arms Importer like our indian friend.

Most Chinese Arms are from their Domestic Arms Industry, their Military pay them with Yuan. So PPP GDP is a good measurement to calculate Chinese Defence Budget Capability.

If they Arms Importer like Indian, they pay Foreign Arms Industry with Dollar, so GDP Nominal will be a good measurement for indian

I thought you were comparing China with the US ... if the comparison is with India, then no need to compare at all. India does not even have a domestic arms industry. Even their own assembled Su-30MKIs from Russian kits fall straight out of the sky. If they cannot even properly assemble a Russian fighter jet with everything provided to them, how would they ever create their own weapons?

 

[Daniel808]

I thought you were comparing China with the US ... if the comparison is with India, then no need to compare at all. India does not even have a domestic arms industry. Even their own assembled Su-30MKIs from Russian kits fall straight out of the sky. If they cannot even properly assemble a Russian fighter jet with everything provided to them, how would they ever create their own weapons?

Yes, their Domestic Arms Industry is a crap.
But India is just an example.

China pays their Aircraft Carrier, Warships, Missiles, Stealth Fighter, etc with their Yuan not dollar.
So PPP is a good measurement for Chinese Defence Budget

 

[antonius123]

Minor correction

China can actually take Taiwan even in the case of US intervention at this time, but it's the political and economic cost that stops it. Think of how badly the Russian economy fared after the annexation of Crimea due to Western sanctions. If there is mass unemployment, CCP's rule could be severely threatened.

That's why China needs another decade to bring its economic strength on par with US before trying anything.

Exactly. This is about the same as what I am trying to explain him.

 

[antonius123]

Keep dreaming kid.

Many of us here are trying to discuss with knowledge, being reasonable and matured, in spite of their nationalistic pride.
Find out how IMF/WB project world economic and how think thank project China military power 10 years ahead

 

[antonius123]

China is crazy..
They are the only country at this moment to have Two Production Line for Aircraft Carrier, Two Production Line for LHD & LHA, and World's Largest Nuclear Submarine Factory.

And they did that with Budget Defence only a mere 2% of their GDP, imagine if they up their defence budget to 4% of GDP like US


China GDP in 2030 beyond will leaving others in the dust
View attachment 657231

So NO chance for the US to Win a Long-term Arms Race with China. That's why they want to 'Kill' China at this moment.

But Covid19 and BLM Riot & Protests across their country, just Accelerate China's Economy to leaving the US faster
View attachment 657232

In past decades, China was pursuing quality over quantity, now as quality has been comparable to US she is back pursuing quantity again. This is her strategy how to become military power challenging US in the short future.

 

[vishwambhar]

I thought you were comparing China with the US ... if the comparison is with India, then no need to compare at all. India does not even have a domestic arms industry. Even their own assembled Su-30MKIs from Russian kits fall straight out of the sky. If they cannot even properly assemble a Russian fighter jet with everything provided to them, how would they ever create their own weapons?

Pure hatred..... India doesn't have domestic defense industry???
I agree with some setbacks with Tejas and Arjun but nobody never appreciates India for her achievements..... look at Arihant, look at Agni series missiles, look at Bramhos, look at ASTRA BVR, look at Akash, look at our homemade destroyers and corvettes, look at kalyani artillery, look at the success of our space program and the list goes on.....

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Many of us here are trying to discuss with knowledge, being reasonable and matured, in spite of their nationalistic pride.
Find out how IMF/WB project world economic and how think thank project China military power 10 years ahead

Taiwan will also be increasing their military capability by then too. You think Taiwan will be sucking it's thumb doing nothing till then?

By then Taiwan would have multiple squadron of F-35s & God know how many more in their shopping list.

China now is projected to lose around 100k of soldiers taking Taiwan in 10 years as Taiwan starts to arming themselves the number of casualty are expected to multiplied.

This is called force multiplier. The numbers are just not in China's favor. This is just Taiwan the US are expected to help them in case of an invasion so yeah china can only dream of taking Taiwan.

 

[Nilgiri]

Pure hatred..... India doesn't have domestic defense industry???
I agree with some setbacks with Tejas and Arjun but nobody never appreciates India for her achievements..... look at Arihant, look at Agni series missiles, look at Bramhos, look at ASTRA BVR, look at Akash, look at our homemade destroyers and corvettes, look at kalyani artillery, look at the success of our space program and the list goes on.....

Don't need to go seeking any interaction for approval on anything from CCP bot trolls.

The worst of them are the ones that have migrated from their hivemind source, yet still stuck in hivemind simpleton mode.

It is best to interact on this kind of thing with worthies that are not hiveminded chumps. They tend to be non CCP and non - Chinese altogether (on this forum)....you can actually get somewhere that matters.

CCP types are best to meat pie if they act up...either their own govt hands with their tanks or hand to hand at border if needed. Either one their govt will just say zero and deny anything happened....because they hate how weak and incompetent they truly are. Can't even get to Hanoi when they promised to do so.

 

[Daniel808]

Taiwan will also be increasing their military capability by then too. You think Taiwan will be sucking it's thumb doing nothing till then?

By then Taiwan would have multiple squadron of F-35s & God know how many more in their shopping list.

China now is projected to lose around 100k of soldiers taking Taiwan in 10 years as Taiwan starts to arming themselves the number of casualty are expected to multiplied.

This is called force multiplier. The numbers are just not in China's favor. This is just Taiwan the US are expected to help them in case of an invasion so yeah china can only dream of taking Taiwan.

Every 1 step ROC take forward, China do it 10x times more in the same timespan.

There are no way ROC can match China Arms Industrial Capability.

-Type 003 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 004 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 075 LHD #1 #2 #3
-Type 076 LHA
-Type 071 LPD
-Type 055 Cruiser
-Type 052D Destroyer
-Type 054B Next Gen Heavy Frigate
-Type 054A Frigate
-Type 095 Next-Gen SSN
-Type 096 Next-Gen SSBN
-Type 093B SSN
-Type 094A SSBN
-Type 039C Yuan Class AIP Subs
-Type 901 Fast-Supply Ship
and many other ships..

That's what they currently building in their Shipyard at this moment. Massive very massive indeed

 

[Figaro]

Every one step ROC take forward, China do it 10x times more in the same timespan.

There are no way ROC can match China Arms Industrial Capability.

-Type 003 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 004 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 075 LHD #1 #2 #3
-Type 076 LHA
-Type 071 LPD
-Type 055 Cruiser
-Type 052D Destroyer
-Type 054B Next Gen Heavy Frigate
-Type 054A Frigate
-Type 095 Next-Gen SSN
-Type 096 Next-Gen SSBN
-Type 093B SSN
-Type 094A SSBN
-Type 039C Yuan Class AIP Subs
-Type 901 Fast-Supply Ship
and many other ships..

That's what they currently building in their Shipyard. Massive very massive

The ROC Air Force and Navy are hopeless in a Taiwan battle unfortunately. Their best fighter, the F-16 Block 70, is a very capable aircraft but against hundreds of same level J-10Cs and J-16s, their numbers are not enough to make a difference. The ROC Navy is in an even worse shape, operating WW2 era submarines and old Kidd Class destroyers if I'm not mistaken. The only hope for Taiwan is their army, which if they can dig in successfully and defend strongpoints is a very formidable threat against the PLA. The vast majority of PLA casualties will be dealing with the Taiwanese ground forces defending these strongpoints ... even in face of overwhelming air superiority and artillery fire, never underestimate the potency of a well defended position.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Every 1 step ROC take forward, China do it 10x times more in the same timespan.

There are no way ROC can match China Arms Industrial Capability.

-Type 003 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 004 Aircraft Carrier
-Type 075 LHD #1 #2 #3
-Type 076 LHA
-Type 071 LPD
-Type 055 Cruiser
-Type 052D Destroyer
-Type 054B Next Gen Heavy Frigate
-Type 054A Frigate
-Type 095 Next-Gen SSN
-Type 096 Next-Gen SSBN
-Type 093B SSN
-Type 094A SSBN
-Type 039C Yuan Class AIP Subs
-Type 901 Fast-Supply Ship
and many other ships..

That's what they currently building in their Shipyard at this moment. Massive very massive indeed

Notice not one amphibious landing ships...

But joking aside. China simply can't take Taiwan on the basis of logistics & geography. China don't have enough airbases & naval bases to support a large scale invasion. Taiwan in addition doesn't even need to beat china to stop an invasion they just have make the airspace unpredictable ala battle of britain to stop any naval landing.

Also this: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3976853

So China can't take Taiwan either way.

 

[IblinI]

The ROC Air Force and Navy are hopeless in a Taiwan battle unfortunately. Their best fighter, the F-16 Block 70, is a very capable aircraft but against hundreds of same level J-10Cs and J-16s, their numbers are not enough to make a difference. The ROC Navy is in an even worse shape, operating WW2 era submarines and old Kidd Class destroyers if I'm not mistaken. The only hope for Taiwan is their army, which if they can dig in successfully and defend strongpoints is a very formidable threat against the PLA. The vast majority of PLA casualties will be dealing with the Taiwanese ground forces defending these strongpoints ... even in face of overwhelming air superiority and artillery fire, never underestimate the potency of a well defended position.

as far as we know, their airforce has the best moral among (funding,training,pension)three and army comes last, they are having an idientity crisis alone with least funding.

 

[IblinI]

I thought you were comparing China with the US ... if the comparison is with India, then no need to compare at all. India does not even have a domestic arms industry. Even their own assembled Su-30MKIs from Russian kits fall straight out of the sky. If they cannot even properly assemble a Russian fighter jet with everything provided to them, how would they ever create their own weapons?

Not many people talking about it here but I do wonder how many players would be left on the table when the tech tree complicated and climb to sixth generation warfare, where you might have to spend billion dollars for an important subsystem, multi,even hundred billion for the whole project.
what would be the fate of the small,middle size countries.