India's unfair tirade against Bangladesh puzzles Indians too

[UKBengali]

I'll post a detailed post in the evening.

Looking forward to that.

 

[gslv mk3]

I would be glad to be proven wrong however...

Well then, I'll make you glad

The AL31fp SATURN engine is assembled at Koraput.

From what I know - almost 90% of the parts (probably less now than four/five years ago) are imported from Russia and assembled at Koraput.

First, an official press release from HAL...

The 50th AL31FP engine, manufactured from raw materials by Sukhoi Engine Division of HAL (Koraput) has been handed over to IAF in Delhi yesterday as part of celebrations of 70th year of India Russia diplomatic relationship.

“The AL31FP engine powers Su30 MKI and is manufactured from raw material stage. All the components, including heavy forgings are manufactured at HAL”, said Mr. T. Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL. He handed over the documents related to the 50th Raw Material Phase Engine of Su-30MKI to Air Marshal S.B. Deo, VCAS.

Well, it seems that you know very little...

India is not at the stage yet to master manufacture (from scratch) of high precision alloy AL-31FP engine compressor parts, high precision and high temperature metal impregnated (oil metal) bearings, squeezed metal/machined fan blades (mostly Titanium I believe)

I would have dismissed this as another BS claim of yours, saying that India is not at some stage yet (like 'India is not at a stage where it can manufacture fabricated metro bogie frames) but since I promised a detailed reply...

The spectrum of manufacturing facilities extends literally from the production of nuts and bolts to discs, shafts, blades, forgings and castings - all that are required to make an Aero Engine right from the Raw materials.

Precision Components

Division also produces precision components like: total gamut of Blades ranging from Compressor Rotors and Stators to Turbine Blades and Nozzle Guide Vanes, intricate Cored Magnesium Alloy Gear Casings, Compressor and Turbine Discs and Shafts, JIS class-l/DlN 5 Spur, Helical Gears and DIN 6 straight and Hypoid / Spiral Bevel Gears ranging from module 1 to 6.

http://www.hal-india.com/Engine Division Koraput/M__138

The Division presently has state of the art facilities for manufacturing 4th generation aero engines, which include, Robotized TIG Welding, Manned Chamber Welding, Electron Beam Welding, Detonation Coating, Hot Isostatic Pressing (HIP), Isothermal Forming, Cold Rolling of Blades, Ion Nitriding, Alphatization and a battery of CNC machining centers. The Division has also mastered critical technologies for manufacturing Single Crystal Blades and Directionally Solidified Blade castings.

http://hal-india.com/Air Chief Calls/ND__85

Another source...

Sukhoi Engine Division - Koraput has the following high tech facilities

• Creep feed grinding machine for machining of blades
• 5-axes CNC blade milling machine for machining of blades
• Fatigue testing machine for blades
• Powder metallurgy equipment for metallic inserts.
• Single Crystal furnace for high pressure Turbine blade
• Manned chamber welding equipment for welding of Ti components
• Vacuum Heat Treatment furnace for Ion Nitriding and Alphatising
• Special furnaces for coating the engine parts
• Pneumo-thermo Press for achieving intricate contours on Titanium alloys
• Isothermal forming
• Electron Beam Welding
• Robotic plasma coating equipment
• MAP Coating equipment for coating of blades

https://hal-india.co.in/Sukhoi Engine Division Koraput/M__140

AL-31 FP HPT rotor disc with Al-31 SCB made by HAL.

Investment casting for Single Crystal Blades.

Some vendors for high pressure compressor/turbine disc/ blade machining.

https://www.lmwatc.com/pro_engine.html
http://corrtechenergy.com/aerospace_component_manufacture

Mishra Dhadhu Nigam Limited (MIDHANI) produces two Titanium alloys- BT18 & 20 for AL 31 FP engine.

To make it more interesting...

In defense field turbine blades and vanes for MIG aircrafts began in India during 1960s at HAL, Koraput by investment casting process

https://www.ijser.org/researchpaper/New-Development-in-Investment-Casting-Process-A-Review.pdf

Should I say anything more ??

The failed development of the Kaveri engine effort - it is nowhere even after two decades of 'development

Apparently the consultant-Safran- thinks otherwise...read the last line.

This would be a landmark wrt Indian aero engine development...

As for our own indigenous, parallel development of materials & processes to perfect the Kaveri...

If we actually look at the real situation (instead of reading from the Sanghi propaganda book)

So here is the real situation buddy...as compared to the fantasies of a butt-hurt jamati, who thinks India can't even manufacture metro bogie frames...

@UKBengali @The Ronin @bête noire

Also @SOUTHie @CyclopS & @Water Car Engineer...

If India can truly make the AL-31 from scratch, then there is nothing stopping it from making another engine of the same generation

Which would be called reverse engineering- something we don't want to do at least for now.

HAL's HTFE 25 turbofan uses single crystal blades. Finding out whether this is technology absorbed from Sukhoi or DMRL(DRDO) developed technology is impossible as for now.

HAL runs its first aircraft engine, launches chopper engine project

Just a bunch of hyper-nationalist Indian kids who have little life experience again.

Says the guy who dreams about Bangladesh becoming a superpower in 2030... On the same forum where people claim that their Ansar VDP would be able to invade UP & a Bangladeshi economic sanction would bankrupt India...

This forum must be renamed 'jokes forum'- why have a 'jokes thread when you can have a 'jokes forum ?

 

[UKBengali]

@gslv mk3

You aware the hardest part of producing a turbofan engine is making them using correct materials and not the design of the engine itself?
I call buttshit that India can make all components of AL-31 from scratch.

 

[gslv mk3]

You aware the hardest part of producing a turbofan engine is making them using correct materials and not the design of the engine itself?
I call buttshit that India can make all components of AL-31 from scratch.

The key is the materials- single crystal super alloys, thermal barrier coatings. Yes we are getting there...

Article from 2005 about third generation SCBs from DMRL...

You-being a Bangladeshi-can 'think' 'feel' or 'say' anything- no body gives a damn.

 

[UKBengali]

The key is the materials- single crystal super alloys, thermal barrier coatings. Yes we are getting there...

Article from 2005 about third generation SCBs from DMRL...

View attachment 506261



You-being a Bangladeshi-can 'think' 'feel' or 'say' anything- no body gives a damn.

No one denies that India is making progress but one Indian posters seems to think that India
can pump out SU-30s with zero Russian support. This is patently untrue.

 

[gslv mk3]

but one Indian posters seems to think that India
can pump out SU-30s with zero Russian support

We can reverse engineer- we have already done that with engines like Adour. The results maybe suboptimal initially but it can be improved.

 

[Bilal9]

@gslv mk3

You aware the hardest part of producing a turbofan engine is making them using correct materials and not the design of the engine itself?
I call buttshit that India can make all components of AL-31 from scratch.

Sanghis love to put up pictures and research paper excerpts and present the idea that India has become the technology epicenter of the world, when reality is quite different in India (not going to stoop low by posting pictures - everyone knows what sub-saharan stage of development India is in, notwithstanding a few nice buildings in Navi Mumbai and Noida).

You have a Sanghi propaganda picture of one alloy fan hub - in 'Sanghi-speak' that means, "they make thousands of them every month". You show a picture of one single ceramic mould for fan blades - that is 'Full speed production ongoing for millions of fan blades". B*LL-FREAKIN-SH*T.

The sad thing is - this type of Sanghi propaganda has been manufactured for local gullible consumption in India. But when it is presented to the world, people call B*LLSH*T on it, and rightly so.

This type of Sanghi propaganda was also manufactured to counter actual Chinese achievements who are turning out J-15's (and their engines too) by the dozen every few months - that is called RESULTS. And these things are VISIBLE unlike Sanghi propaganda and having no results. @Two your opinion please....

I find it hard to believe that a nation where one third of the citizens go to relieve themselves out in the open and whose under five child death rate is higher than Bangladesh (along with many many other health indicators) has the technology basis necessary to turn out fighter components independently and in production quantity.

Like - the Russians (and the Indian chaur politicians) are gonna cut off their own gravy train.

 

[gslv mk3]

Sanghis love to put up pictures and research paper excerpts and present the idea that India has become the technology epicenter of the world, when reality is - what it is in India (not going to stoop that low by posting pictures - everyone knows what sub-saharan stage of development India is in, notwithstanding a few nice buildings in Navi Mumbai and Noida). It is not what the Sanghis make it out to be, as evidenced by the subject of this thread. Election year propaganda and hate speech only go so far.

You have a Sanghi propaganda picture of one alloy fan hub - in 'Sanghi-speak' that means, "they make thousands of them every month". You show a picture of one single ceramic mould for fan blades - that is 'Full speed production ongoing for millions of fan blades". B*LL-FREAKIN-SH*T.

The sad thing is - this type of Sanghi propaganda has been manufactured for local gullible consumption in India. But when it is presented to the world, people call B*LLSH*T on it, and rightly so.

This type of Sanghi propaganda was also manufactured to counter actual Chinese achievements who are turning out J-15's (and their engines too) by the dozen every few months - that is called RESULTS, RSS thugs and trolls. And these things are VISIBLE unlike Sanghi propaganda and having no results. @Two your opinion please....

I find it hard to believe that a nation where one third whose citizens go to relieve themselves out in the open and whose under five child death rate is higher than Bangladesh (along with many many other health indicators) has the technology basis necessary to turn out fighter components independently and in production quantity.

The Butt-hurt have started flowing after getting literally owned with proper sources, research papers & even photos...

I find it hard to believe that a bunch of swamp dwellers so intellectually deficient that they cannot file a single proper patent a year could still be classified as proper 'modern humans'.

And they still have the audacity to question the state of technology available elsewhere...

Homo erectus would have done better than these Bongoloids if they were still around...

Sanghis love to put up pictures and research paper excerpts

A research paper is not credible but the brain-farts of a third rate troll who claims that 'Bangladesh is three decades ahead of India' are.

Is that how things work in that swampland of yours ?

We all know what kind of backwater swamp Bangladesh is, with actual physical consumption of anything-from steel to smartphones- ranging from 1/3rd to 1/6th of it's neighbours.

No amount of BBS fakery would hide that reality.

Look no further than Dhaka liveability index for answers...

The dysfunctional megacity: why Dhaka is bursting at the sewers

Bangladesh is doing so great....here is proof.

Bangladesh is now the single biggest country of origin for refugees on boats

the world

The world means only Bangladesh,? That's some appropriation there...

The world believes, that's exactly why we are a member of projects such as ITER & doing joint missions with NASA.

Leave the science & technology sector, no one gives a damn about 'Bangladesh' elsewhere either.

That's why no one gave a damn when you were getting killed en masse like Chickens. Only we cared & that's only because we had an agenda.

Seriously, more people give a damn when dogs are killed in Yulin festival. That'll tell you how much you are worth.

 

[UKBengali]

We can reverse engineer- we have already done that with engines like Adour. The results maybe suboptimal initially but it can be improved.

Adour is a 1960s engine with less than 5:1 T/W ratio. It also produces less than 9000 pounds of thrust and so is nowhere near as complex as the 25-30000 pound 8:1 T/W ratio AL-31.
China only by 2009-2010 felt confident enough to put the WS-10A onto their twin engine J-11B.
China has licensed reversed engineered the 5:1 T/W ratio Spey Mk202 since 1976 and so no big deal with Adour with India. These are 2nd rate engines that the West will allow anyone with money to reverse engineer.

Stop this nonsense that India has the know-how to independently manufacture AL-31 engine.

 

[gslv mk3]

Adour is a 1960s engine with less than 5:1 T/W ratio. It also produces less than 9000 pounds of thrust and so is nowhere near as complex as the 25-30000 pound 8:1 T/W ratio AL-31.

I clearly said ''like we have done with''.

There was no ToT on adour engine disc/blade.

That's why we replaced it with Ti 26 grade alloy originally developed by MIDHANI for Kaveri.

Same kind of re-engineering can happen, if needed.

China only by 2009-2010 felt confident enough to put the WS-10A onto their twin engine J-11B.

And it is OK to put a Kaveri on an LCA now, Says Safran, not GTRE.

 

[UKBengali]

I clearly said ''like we have done with''.

There was no ToT on adour engine disc/blade.

That's why we replaced it with Ti 26 grade alloy originally developed by MIDHANI for Kaveri.

Same kind of re-engineering can happen, if needed.

Adour is a 5 decade old engine and the current Kaveri engine is better of course.
So of course India can make a copy easily with no help.
India still cannot make AL-31 as it is much more sophisticated engine.

 

[gslv mk3]

India still cannot make AL-31 as it is much more sophisticated engine.

The parameters targetted for Kaveri is as good if not better than AL 31 FP. Flat rated. Turbine entry temperature of 1700 K.

 

[UKBengali]

The parameters targetted for Kaveri is as good if not better than AL 31 FP. Flat rated. Turbine entry temperature of 1700 K.

Forget targets, need to see results first.

 

[gslv mk3]

Forget targets, need to see results first.

Initial results are there in that fourth picture in post #107.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Sanghis love to put up pictures and research paper excerpts and present the idea that India has become the technology epicenter of the world, when reality is - what it is in India (not going to stoop that low by posting pictures - everyone knows what sub-saharan stage of development India is in, notwithstanding a few nice buildings in Navi Mumbai and Noida). It is not what the Sanghis make it out to be\. Election year propaganda and hate speech only go so far.

You have a Sanghi propaganda picture of one alloy fan hub - in 'Sanghi-speak' that means, "they make thousands of them every month". You show a picture of one single ceramic mould for fan blades - that is 'Full speed production ongoing for millions of fan blades". B*LL-FREAKIN-SH*T.

The sad thing is - this type of Sanghi propaganda has been manufactured for local gullible consumption in India. But when it is presented to the world, people call B*LLSH*T on it, and rightly so.

This type of Sanghi propaganda was also manufactured to counter actual Chinese achievements who are turning out J-15's (and their engines too) by the dozen every few months - that is called RESULTS, RSS thugs and trolls. And these things are VISIBLE unlike Sanghi propaganda and having no results. @Two your opinion please....

I find it hard to believe that a nation where one third whose citizens go to relieve themselves out in the open and whose under five child death rate is higher than Bangladesh (along with many many other health indicators) has the technology basis necessary to turn out fighter components independently and in production quantity.

Like - the Russians (and the Indian chaur politicians) are gonna cut off their own gravy train.

India still cannot make AL-31 as it is much more sophisticated engine.

It doesn't matter what Bangladesh thinks but India can make Al31FP engine. Al31FP engine is over 35 year old and is no supernatural technology.

Cheap shoutings from anyone is not going to change the fact about it.