India's Tejas and China's Xiaolong fighters compared

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Wrong
Tejas Trainer PV 6 completes first flight successfully - Oneindia


that cannot make any Fighter less Potent and
First Understand This EW suite, known as Mayavi for LCA , includes a radar warning receiver (RWR), Missile Approach Warning (MAW) and a Laser warning receiver (LWR) system, Infrared & Ultraviolet Missile warning sensors, self-protection jammer, chaff, jaff and flares dispenser, an electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite and a towed radar decoy (TRD)

RWR is used in tejas was deisned by DARE ( Defence Avionics Research Establishment) which is Tarang 1B and CMDS it has Some Performance Issues which are addressed by CAG report but these issues are not Permanent one the issues are Being addressed Please go through Report LCA is Still Have time for FOC

Let me Guide you Tarang RWR is developed by DARE, Bangalore. It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library - it can store information off the type of fighter aircraft radar detected and identify it. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Tarang RWR is now almost t standard to IAF aircraft. The MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27ML, SEPECAT Jaguar DARIN II, MiG-29UPG, HAL Tejas and the Su-30MKI all have Tarang or Tranquil RWRs.
Tarang RWR antennae are placed around the aircraft for all round coverage, the most common of which is the dorsal fin. You will easily spot the Tarang RWR on the dorsal fins of MiG-21 Bisons, Jaguar DARIN IIs, and HAL Tejas.

Moot Point how this 35 % indigenization Point will Effect the Performance of the Aircraft As it Mostly uses Israelis,French and even British which Known for their Effective Systems


Not Even one point Suggest that LCA is Not a Potent Aircraft But Many of its Features Surpass Aircraft which are already in use in IAF Eg mig-21,Mig-27

your point of Money going in drain is Moot one Money spend on R&D in the project Never goes Waste you seem to have not Known this Because PAC is Never Achieved Anything Significant in Indigenous Industry

As for Failure of the Tejas project Mod is already ordered 40 Mk1 and vision to have Atleast 10 Squardors of the aircraft as for funds it already issued for Mk2
Mod is Keen on investing foreign vendors Like SAAB interested in Such Project Mod is spending huge amount of money on LCA take Latest comment from are DM parikar Today Itself

Parrikar also said that with India buying around 36 Rafale jets for now, government savings on this project is likely to be up Rs 60,000-65,000 crore. This money, Parrikar said, will be used to accelerate defence manufacturing in India, including speeding up the long-ingestation Light Combat Aircraft. The minister said LCA will be inducted in large numbers, up to 200 fighters or 10 squadrons.

Read more at:
50% of Rafale deal value will be invested in India: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar - The Economic Times





it is Surprising that Same So called Think tanks and Intellectuals Question Credibility of CAG when it Criticize Army for Determining Capabilities of Arjun Tank Specially one you mentioned in you Post.

CAG blames Army for delay in Arjun tanks’ induction

@HRK. Bro can you post that report again an the part which show the reality about th EW suite on lca ?


On topic : funny to see indian quoting a blog "wantchinatime".. With incorrect information and jumpin up n down and boastig about an aircraft which has a radar range of 60 KMs, among other flaws and is yet to enter service .. Anc comparing it with an aircraft (50+ of which are in service and BLK II soon to be indicted- with production. Already underway).

 

[HRK]

@HRK. Bro can you post that report again an the part which show the reality about th EW suite on lca ?


On topic : funny to see indian quoting a blog "wantchinatime".. With incorrect information and jumpin up n down and boastig about an aircraft which has a radar range of 60 KMs, among other flaws and is yet to enter service .. Anc comparing it with an aircraft (50+ of which are in service and BLK II soon to be indicted- with production. Already underway).

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@ziaulislam @Dazzler @shah1398
Well, in other threads relating to this CAG report, I have had asked the Pakistani commentators "You have quoted our CAG report?" that's nice. CAG controls our nation(it is an independent organization like judiciary) regarding all the monetary transaction, whether any Govt. use the money properly or not. Remember our Coal scam or 2G scam. The present Govt. has made lot of money from the CAG report (by auctioning).

I want to ask Pakistani commentators as to if there is any CAG like institutions in Pakistan or whatever the Army says becomes its Bible?? If there would have been no CAG, then you would not have any chance to comment on this!!

@ziaulislam @Dazzler @shah1398
Well, in other threads relating to this CAG report, I have had asked the Pakistani commentators "You have quoted our CAG report?" that's nice. CAG controls our nation(it is an independent organization like judiciary) regarding all the monetary transaction, whether any Govt. use the money properly or not. Remember our Coal scam or 2G scam. The present Govt. has made lot of money from the CAG report (by auctioning).

I want to ask Pakistani commentators as to if there is any CAG like institutions in Pakistan or whatever the Army says becomes its Bible?? If there would have been no CAG, then you would not have any chance to comment on this!!

We have NAB (National Accountability Beaurue)... If that's hat your asking !


Apart from internal audit branches within armed forces and their branches.. Etc.

 

[shah1398]

@cerberus
Dear Sir let me summarize it again:

1. First of all i have no issues at all with if Tejas is 30 % indigenous or 70%, my point was that if it is not then India should stop branding it one.

2. Secondly in this era of hi tech when ECM has surpassed EC6M, how can you even say that without ECM and Self Protection Jamming aids a fighter aircraft is not less potent?

3. Thirdly the trainer dp Tejas has undertaken its maiden flight Nov last year which implies that it may take a few more years for it to start rolling out which further implies that how would IAF train its Pilots on LCA till then?

4. Fourthly I am not pointing at any deficiency of DARE in regards to ECM etc systems but at the fact that Tejas Non Modular design leaves no space for any ECM etc to be fit in.

5. And my last point is that it is really non of my concern about what type of contract management is undertaken by India in regards to buying Rafale, Even if 100% of the money is reinvested in India so be it, thats whats the smart contract management is about.

 

[Gufi]

ok first of all there are too many trolls on this thread.

• To compare the two aircraft without seeing their use is sheer idiocy. The JF-17 is always going to be to defend Pakistani airspace and is not meant as a plane that will cross the border into enemy space for extended missions. The LCA will have to be part of a larger Indian air force entering into Pakistani airspace and facing not only resistance from other air planes but air defences.
• The LCA is not suited for the purpose it was built for, because if it was policing the airspace it has composite materials which are expensive to use and later maintain. And at the money already thrown into this project it would have been better to induct more variants of Su-30.
• If it is air supremacy it is not suited because it does not have any advanced measures to protect against air to air missiles or SAMs.
• Also this is off topic, but India has to stop counting its entire air force in it's comparison with Pakistan because it will never leave its border with China without air protection. Also counting Mig 21 as a weapon is not really a smart move. It is like us counting our F-7s.

The issue always seen here is that members forget the use of the aircraft and which scenarios it will be seen in. It does not matter what the design is or whose it is or what is its origin, because in the end war sees none of those things. The JF-17 is a platform which has the ability to fire very capable BVR missiles and manage itself well in a dog fight. For a cash strapped Pakistan they are a very potent jet and do not forget the missiles do not care which jet they leave, they only know which jet they have to take out. The larger wings, the increased lift, the ability to take off from multiple locations all point to a jet which is made to take out enemy jets effectively in a short time frame. They are very good for an army which wants to guard its airspace but not for any large offensive action.
The reason India prefers 2 engine air crafts is the very reason LCA will not be a force multiplier in the IAF. Decreased speed, more warning time, less resilient against a potent air defence, this money would have and should have been spent on the Rafale deal with TOT instead. Because unlike Pakistan, India has another formidable air force it will have to deal with very soon, which will not even consider the Tejas a threat.
Any sensible reply is appreciated, any chest beating, please do not expect a reply back.
@Dazzler liked your posts @Indian Patriot nice vision, hopefully no one listens to you :p @SpArK please explain the role of the LCA in the Indian air force.
ps i have used LCA and Tejas alternatively, when I used LCA i meant Tejas

 

[shah1398]

ok first of all there are too many trolls on this thread.

• To compare the two aircraft without seeing their use is sheer idiocy. The JF-17 is always going to be to defend Pakistani airspace and is not meant as a plane that will cross the border into enemy space for extended missions. The LCA will have to be part of a larger Indian air force entering into Pakistani airspace and facing not only resistance from other air planes but air defences.
• The LCA is not suited for the purpose it was built for, because if it was policing the airspace it has composite materials which are expensive to use and later maintain. And at the money already thrown into this project it would have been better to induct more variants of Su-30.
• If it is air supremacy it is not suited because it does not have any advanced measures to protect against air to air missiles or SAMs.
• Also this is off topic, but India has to stop counting its entire air force in it's comparison with Pakistan because it will never leave its border with China without air protection. Also counting Mig 21 as a weapon is not really a smart move. It is like us counting our F-7s.

The issue always seen here is that members forget the use of the aircraft and which scenarios it will be seen in. It does not matter what the design is or whose it is or what is its origin, because in the end war sees none of those things. The JF-17 is a platform which has the ability to fire very capable BVR missiles and manage itself well in a dog fight. For a cash strapped Pakistan they are a very potent jet and do not forget the missiles do not care which jet they leave, they only know which jet they have to take out. The larger wings, the increased lift, the ability to take off from multiple locations all point to a jet which is made to take out enemy jets effectively in a short time frame. They are very good for an army which wants to guard its airspace but not for any large offensive action.
The reason India prefers 2 engine air crafts is the very reason LCA will not be a force multiplier in the IAF. Decreased speed, more warning time, less resilient against a potent air defence, this money would have and should have been spent on the Rafale deal with TOT instead. Because unlike Pakistan, India has another formidable air force it will have to deal with very soon, which will not even consider the Tejas a threat.
Any sensible reply is appreciated, any chest beating, please do not expect a reply back.
@Dazzler liked your posts @Indian Patriot nice vision, hopefully no one listens to you :p @SpArK please explain the role of the LCA in the Indian air force.
ps i have used LCA and Tejas alternatively, when I used LCA i meant Tejas

Sir U have just nailed it all.One way or the other we both are using the same logic/reasons but am really disappointed in the end with our friends from across the border who would act like a guy listening to Heer Ranjha story all night only to ask it in the morning that was Heer a male or was it Ranjha....

 

[black-hawk_101]

Wrong
Tejas Trainer PV 6 completes first flight successfully - Oneindia


that cannot make any Fighter less Potent and
First Understand This EW suite, known as Mayavi for LCA , includes a radar warning receiver (RWR), Missile Approach Warning (MAW) and a Laser warning receiver (LWR) system, Infrared & Ultraviolet Missile warning sensors, self-protection jammer, chaff, jaff and flares dispenser, an electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite and a towed radar decoy (TRD)

RWR is used in tejas was deisned by DARE ( Defence Avionics Research Establishment) which is Tarang 1B and CMDS it has Some Performance Issues which are addressed by CAG report but these issues are not Permanent one the issues are Being addressed Please go through Report LCA is Still Have time for FOC

Let me Guide you Tarang RWR is developed by DARE, Bangalore. It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library - it can store information off the type of fighter aircraft radar detected and identify it. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Tarang RWR is now almost t standard to IAF aircraft. The MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27ML, SEPECAT Jaguar DARIN II, MiG-29UPG, HAL Tejas and the Su-30MKI all have Tarang or Tranquil RWRs.
Tarang RWR antennae are placed around the aircraft for all round coverage, the most common of which is the dorsal fin. You will easily spot the Tarang RWR on the dorsal fins of MiG-21 Bisons, Jaguar DARIN IIs, and HAL Tejas.

Moot Point how this 35 % indigenization Point will Effect the Performance of the Aircraft As it Mostly uses Israelis,French and even British which Known for their Effective Systems


Not Even one point Suggest that LCA is Not a Potent Aircraft But Many of its Features Surpass Aircraft which are already in use in IAF Eg mig-21,Mig-27

your point of Money going in drain is Moot one Money spend on R&D in the project Never goes Waste you seem to have not Known this Because PAC is Never Achieved Anything Significant in Indigenous Industry

As for Failure of the Tejas project Mod is already ordered 40 Mk1 and vision to have Atleast 10 Squardors of the aircraft as for funds it already issued for Mk2
Mod is Keen on investing foreign vendors Like SAAB interested in Such Project Mod is spending huge amount of money on LCA take Latest comment from are DM parikar Today Itself

Parrikar also said that with India buying around 36 Rafale jets for now, government savings on this project is likely to be up Rs 60,000-65,000 crore. This money, Parrikar said, will be used to accelerate defence manufacturing in India, including speeding up the long-ingestation Light Combat Aircraft. The minister said LCA will be inducted in large numbers, up to 200 fighters or 10 squadrons.

Read more at:
50% of Rafale deal value will be invested in India: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar - The Economic Times





it is Surprising that Same So called Think tanks and Intellectuals Question Credibility of CAG when it Criticize Army for Determining Capabilities of Arjun Tank Specially one you mentioned in you Post.

CAG blames Army for delay in Arjun tanks’ induction

IAF Jaguars and Mirage-2000s have more capabilities than Tejas.

 

[slng]

This project is something good India could begin with but not with 70% of imported parts.

There should be more independent R&D regardless of time needed to have a unique result.
Chinese or Pakis is not pointing gun at your doorstep at this point of time rather it is US creating a disharmony/tension over the area.


p/s: Forgive my bad language of English

 

[aftab_s81]

I had great respect for LCA Tejas before reading this report from CAG. Anyways, best of luck Indians.
Regards from a Pakistani.

 

[Indian Patriot]

@Indian Patriot nice vision, hopefully no one listens to you

In this forum nobody will listen. I have been called a Pakistani by the emotional keyboard warriors. And this because I dared to speak the bitter truth and call LCA for what it is - a piece of obsolete junk.

LCA has no place or future in IAF. It is too small to carry meaningful payoad -weapons/sensors/ECM - and it is futile in its role as point air defence aircraft for the very simple reason that it does not stand a chance against F-16 Blk 52 and PLAAF Sukhoi-27. The LCA will be clobbered against these two front line enemy aircraft who will be the first to intrude into Indian air space.

The LCA can't defend, it can't attack, so what can it do?

The IAF will need its squadrons of MKI, Rafale and aircraft of 4.5 caliber to defend against PAF and PLAAF. Obsolete tech like LCA which was supposed to be a Mig-21 replacement only cannot undertake any major roles.

The LCA is not only a point air defence aircraft. It has strike capabilities as well and that is even more sad and hilarious. How is that tiny plane supposed to attack and inspire fear in enemy?

 

[Gufi]

In this forum nobody will listen. I have been called a Pakistani by the emotional keyboard warriors. And this because I dared to speak the bitter truth and call LCA for what it is - a piece of obsolete junk.

I hope the patriotic people in India make 200 or 250 of these

 

[Indian Patriot]

I hope the patriotic people in India make 200 or 250 of these

LOL!! Very soon you will have some emotional keyboard enthusiasts coming here and claiming how good the LCA is, how modern it is and how it is a better aircraft than F-16 etc etc etc.

 

[shah1398]

In this forum nobody will listen. I have been called a Pakistani by the emotional keyboard warriors. And this because I dared to speak the bitter truth and call LCA for what it is - a piece of obsolete junk.

LCA has no place or future in IAF. It is too small to carry meaningful payoad -weapons/sensors/ECM - and it is futile in its role as point air defence aircraft for the very simple reason that it does not stand a chance against F-16 Blk 52 and PLAAF Sukhoi-27. The LCA will be clobbered against these two front line enemy aircraft who will be the first to intrude into Indian air space.

The LCA can't defend, it can't attack, so what can it do?

The IAF will need its squadrons of MKI, Rafale and aircraft of 4.5 caliber to defend against PAF and PLAAF. Obsolete tech like LCA which was supposed to be a Mig-21 replacement only cannot undertake any major roles.

The LCA is not only a point air defence aircraft. It has strike capabilities as well and that is even more sad and hilarious. How is that tiny plane supposed to attack and inspire fear in enemy?

Woooah Bro.... hold on.You are a rare realistic person i have ever come across.I totally second to what you said about MKIs and Rafale and would bow out humbly on saying anything about LCA as respect for your realistic approach. I can see you would have made so many enemies back Home.

 

[cerberus]

RWR is used in tejas was deisned by DARE ( Defence Avionics Research Establishment) which is Tarang 1B and CMDS it has Some Performance Issues which are addressed by CAG report but these issues are not Permanent ones, the issues are Being addressed As Mentioned in the Report you posted .LCA is Still Have time for FOC

Tarang RWR is now almost the standard to All IAF aircraft. The MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27ML, SEPECAT Jaguar DARIN II, MiG-29UPG, HAL Tejas and the Su-30MKI all have Tarang or Tranquil RWRs.
Tarang RWR antennae are placed around the aircraft for all round coverage, the most common of which is the dorsal fin. You will easily spot the Tarang RWR on the dorsal fins of MiG-21 Bisons, Jaguar DARIN IIs, and HAL Tejas.

LOL!! Very soon you will have some emotional keyboard enthusiasts coming here and claiming how good the LCA is, how modern it is and how it is a better aircraft than F-16 etc etc etc.

we already Have cover that point you are Making we already have 53 M2k and 69 Mig 29Upg to address it. Standard competition for LCA is JF-17,LCA also have other Roles Like CAS and ground Attack LCA is Multirole Aircraft which already tested with GBU-16 Paveway II and JAMS and others there Many other Roles it will do when it Required by IAF

Woooah Bro.... hold on.You are a rare realistic person i have ever come across.I totally second to what you said about MKIs and Rafale and would bow out humbly on saying anything about LCA as respect for your realistic approach. I can see you would have made so many enemies back Home.

Because his arguments LACk Technical Data to Back his Point Less arguments. Nobody in his Perfect Sense argue with Such Guy

 

[shah1398]

RWR is used in tejas was deisned by DARE ( Defence Avionics Research Establishment) which is Tarang 1B and CMDS it has Some Performance Issues which are addressed by CAG report but these issues are not Permanent ones, the issues are Being addressed As Mentioned in the Report you posted .LCA is Still Have time for FOC

Tarang RWR is now almost the standard to All IAF aircraft. The MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27ML, SEPECAT Jaguar DARIN II, MiG-29UPG, HAL Tejas and the Su-30MKI all have Tarang or Tranquil RWRs.
Tarang RWR antennae are placed around the aircraft for all round coverage, the most common of which is the dorsal fin. You will easily spot the Tarang RWR on the dorsal fins of MiG-21 Bisons, Jaguar DARIN IIs, and HAL Tejas.

we already Have cover that point you are Making we already 53 M2k and 69 Mig 29Upg Standard competition for LCA is JF-17 and other Role Like CAS and ground Attack LCA is Multirole Aircraft which already tested with GBU-16 Paveway II and JAMS and others there Many other Roles it will do when it Required


Because his arguments LACk Technical Data to Back his Point Less arguments. Nobody in his Perfect Sense argue with Such Guy

I would rather stay quite on that. Dont want two countrymen to get into verbal fight on an issue which may not be worthy than relationships.