Indians who deny Aryan invasion, please explain this

[Smarana Mitra]

I have no idea what you're saying.

What exactly is the argument? Who called Iranians Gandharvas? Iranians or someone else? And why does that matter more than what Iranians call their own nation (Iran ~ Eyran ~ Aryan)? And why is it enough to dispute my argument? Which one of my arguments are you disputing? What about the DNA argument in the OP? There was never a reference to "Aryan" where?

At least put some effort into creating an argument.

Do you know that 99.9% of human DNA is identical? Do you know that DNA of human resembles that of a banana by 99%? What absurd claims of DNA are you making? In fact, even during Mahabharatha days, tehre were different races which were clearly mentioned as I have written above. The same geography and race distribution holds even today.

Gandharvas called themselves as Gandharvas and even displayed racial pride. Mahabharatha clearly says that the Gandharva existed to the west of Hastinapura kingdom. In fact, the kings of Kuru dynasty - Chitrangada was killed by Gandharva king who was also named "Chitrangada". It was the later corruption of these people under influence Asura Mahda (Zoroastrian) they changed their racial name for political reason.

 

[fitpOsitive]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

Massive immigration may also mean the same. Not necessarily invasion.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Evidence?

Another evidence is the name "Gandhar". It is derived from "Gandharva". Gandharvas mostly refered to the Turkic Iranian tribes populating across Xinjiang to Mesopotamia. The Greeks were known as Yavanas (Chanakya's arthashastra mentions Alexander as Yavana).

Iranian was never a race. The real race of Iranians is same as that of the Turks. Iranian identity is fake and they are maintaining that identity solely for political reasons. Racially, Iranians are Turks itself.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Another evidence is the name "Gandhar". It is derived from "Gandharva". Gandharvas mostly refered to the Turkic Iranian tribes populating across Xinjiang to Mesopotamia. The Greeks were known as Yavanas (Chanakya's arthashastra mentions Alexander as Yavana).

Iranian was never a race. The real race of Iranians is same as that of the Turks. Iranian identity is fake and they are maintaining that identity solely for political reasons. Racially, Iranians are Turks itself.

Can you post a link to some genuine, credible and authentic evidence that confirms this?

 

[gulli]

Aryan means noble n why do people insist that aryan came into India when they can also go out of India. If westerns want to call themselves as true aryan is not a problem with Hindus. Problem starts when they start claim that they have written Vedas which is complete hoax.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Can you post a link to some genuine, credible and authentic evidence that confirms this?

It is written in Mahabharatha. It is written as entire stories where kings travel across lands and then asthey go into North & Northwest, they encounter Gandharvas.

One snippet from Bori which speaks of Gandharva kingdom near east of Manasa Sarovar:

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It is written in Mahabharatha. It is written as entire stories where kings travel across lands and then asthey go into North & Northwest, they encounter Gandharvas.

One snippet from Bori which speaks of Gandharva kingdom near east of Manasa Sarovar:
View attachment 742020

Link?

 

[Maira La]

Do you know that 99.9% of human DNA is identical? Do you know that DNA of human resembles that of a banana by 99%? What absurd claims of DNA are you making? In fact, even during Mahabharatha days, tehre were different races which were clearly mentioned as I have written above. The same geography and race distribution holds even today.

No, DNA of humans does not resemble that of a banana by 99%! That's ridiculous, and anyways that's off topic.

The study of human genetics depends on variation within human DNA from person to person, excluding the parts that are common to all human (obviously), and this science is well established by now in 2021.

If you took a DNA test today (quite cheap) and provided me the raw data I could actually use some scientific tools to break it down to you in terms of the different ancestral populations that contributed to who you are.

If you are upper caste, I could show you that around 15%-25% of your ancestry comes from a people who are like Northern Europeans.

If you are lower caste, I could show you that none or very tiny part of your ancestry derives from these people.

When you have some money to spend feel free to get your DNA tested with 23andme, myheritage, ftdna or livingdna.

This is hard science backed by DNA test results, there is insurmountable evidence of Aryan gene flow into the subcontinent that can no longer be denied.

Gandharvas called themselves as Gandharvas and even displayed racial pride. Mahabharatha clearly says that the Gandharva existed to the west of Hastinapura kingdom. In fact, the kings of Kuru dynasty - Chitrangada was killed by Gandharva king who was also named "Chitrangada". It was the later corruption of these people under influence Asura Mahda (Zoroastrian) they changed their racial name for political reason.

Where in Mahabharata says Iranians call themselves Gandharvas? How do you know they are not one of the many competing Indo-Aryan tribes? How do you know it's not referring to Huns? To Kushans? To Hepthalites? To Sakas? To other Scythians? To Sogdians? To Massagetae? To Nuristanis? To a group of Dards?

Anyways, do you agree Iranians call their nation Iran?

 

[Maira La]

@Smarana Mitra @gulli

With Vahaduo and publicly available data representing genetic composition of different populations (average based on multiple samples), I have modeled UP Brahmin and Chamar below (don't know if they are UP Chamar or Punjabi Chamar).

I have used Paniya (representing adivasi type ancestry), Iranian_jew (representing West Asian like ancestry mediated through IVC and BMAC) and Belarusian (to represent Corded Ware/Sintashta/Aryan ancestry).

The results speak for themselves. Compare the results to what I said in the OP. (I could also model each of you if you took a DNA ancestry test.)

 

[arjunk]

Aryan Invasion theory is a threat to upper caste position in India, its natural that they would try to discredit it. They would never accept it, no matter how many proofs we show them, its a waste of time. Instead we should think how to spread this information among the majority Native Indian(Lower caste) populations of India. Bangladesh and other neighboring countries can play a vital role, to educate the masses of India, utilizing social media and other sources. I don't think masses of India will ever break chains of psychological servitude, without effort of neighboring countries.

Caste system is a Racist apartheid law enacted with religious sanctity, to oppress the majority native population of India. Rakhigarhi evidence was twisted by (Aryan)upper caste dominated media into a proof against Aryan Invasion theory.

The real reason upper castes hate Islam is because after conversion, Islam transforms a native Indian( lower caste) person into a proud person, who rebels against (Aryan)upper caste.

Read this article for clarity.
https://caravanmagazine.in/religion/how-upper-castes-invented-hindu-majority

We, invite all freethinking people of the world to propagate Islam, Christianity, Communism and other ideologies based on equality, among the native ethnicities(lower caste) of India. Else there is little hope, it will take hundreds of years.

Can someone explain to me the aryan invasion and why upper castes want to deny it

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Evidence?

Well he is playing about on two things -

1. He is using a Hindu book as source of historical fact which is highly suspect.

2. He is playing that favourite Indian game where they close one eye and try to slip using Pakistan. Gandharva is not Iran. It's North West Pakistan but these Indians are so averse at even mentioning 'Pakistan' they will find other ways to hop around.

For instance it's like saying "that land north west of France and east of Ireland next to the North Sea". Ehh you mean "fcukin England". You get my point?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

North & Northwest, they encounter Gandharvas.

You mean Pakistan.

 

[Varunastra]

@Smarana Mitra @gulli

With Vahaduo and publicly available data representing genetic composition of different populations (average based on multiple samples), I have modeled UP Brahmin and Chamar below (don't know if they are UP Chamar or Punjabi Chamar).

I have used Paniya (representing adivasi type ancestry), Iranian_jew (representing West Asian like ancestry mediated through IVC and BMAC) and Belarusian (to represent Corded Ware/Sintashta/Aryan ancestry).

The results speak for themselves. Compare the results to what I said in the OP. (I could also model each of you if you took a DNA ancestry test.)


View attachment 742050

How do you explain such less percentage of steppe ancestry(4% - 15/20%)despite us speaking the language of the aryans along with a rigid caste system for a long time along with calling our land Aryavarta? If upper castes are all just european people who invaded wouldn't they have much much more percentage of steppe DNA? Especially since we have a caste system which Brahmins especially follow rigidly.
Also I think Paniya has 30% neolithic iranian farmer dna, and that's one of the least in south asia. On average the neolithic iranian component should be the majority if not just equal to the native south asian one. The minority component is almost always the steppe component, atleast for us Indians.

 

[Maira La]

You mean Pakistan.

That's what I thought, his "Gandharva" has something to do with Gandhara that we often hear about, I don't know why he keeps associating it with Iran.

 

[Drizzt]

You mean Pakistan.

Afghanistan to be exact. Kabul and the surrounding Pashtun belt.

Gandharvas, according to Hindu mythology, are celestial musicians and Soma providers in Devaloka, and are destined to entertain devas and lords.

Basically, Aryans(upper castes) went to Afghanistan mountain tribe mystics to get high on Afghan Hashish, their superstitious minds thought they visited Devaloka.