Indians who deny Aryan invasion, please explain this

[Maira La]

How do you explain such less percentage of steppe ancestry(4% - 15/20%)despite us speaking the language of the aryans along with a rigid caste system for a long time along with calling our land Aryavarta? If upper castes are all just european people who invaded wouldn't they have much much more percentage of steppe DNA? Especially since we have a caste system which Brahmins especially follow rigidly.

The issue is most of the native ancestry in the upper caste are female mediated. Which means there was serious lack of female partners for the invading/migrating Aryans.

They took wives from BMAC (also assimilated BMAC men), took wives from IVC and from among Gangetic natives. There were few female invaders/migrants, but a surplus of native women for leisure and procreation, for generations after arrival.

This scenario is repeated inside India itself, when North Indian Brahmin men arrived in South India, took local wives and got further native-ized. Today the Pancha Dravida Brahmins are more native shifted than their North Indian counterparts.

When you look at the Y-DNA composition of Brahmins, it's mostly West Eurasian. However when check the mtDNA frequency you'd find that a plurality or even majority of the mtDNA are native M, R and U2.

Geographically, Pakistan and Indian Punjab are fully dominated by West Eurasian Y-DNA, with probably about less than 5% non-West Eurasian lineage. However deeper into Indian peninsula it's only the upper caste that show this sort of Y-DNA frequency, with significant native Y-DNA among mid and lower castes.

 

[Hiptullha]

If upper castes are all just european people who invaded wouldn't they have much much more percentage of steppe DNA?

Upper caste do have higher R1A. Genetically, brahmins are often so different from lower caste Indians from the same region that they are grouped differently.

Genetical observations on caste – Brown Pundits

www.brownpundits.com

Aryans concept is local to the subcontinent and it is widely believed to be a peaceful migration of people.

This denial of genetic and historical reality is unhealthy. Please get help.

This Yamnaya expansion also cannot have been entirely friendly, as is clear from the fact that the proportion of Y chromosomes of steppe origin in both western Europe14 and in India15 today is much larger than the proportion of the rest of the genome. This preponderance of male ancestry coming from the steppe implies that male descendants of the Yamnaya with political or social power were more successful at competing for local mates than men from the local groups.

Social Inequality Leaves a Genetic Mark

When genetic structure follows social structure.

nautil.us

 

[gulli]

Can someone explain to me the aryan invasion and why upper castes want to deny it

Aryan invasion is same old ripped of angreji trick of divide n rule. People become overnight stars if the say that aryan are angrez ke aulad, while dalit n advasis are local. Something like Red India are the original amreicans which is true in case of red Indians.

Who achieve what??

Some not so bright people become croropati by parroting this propaganda.

Europe credit themselves for Sanskrit n Vedas, which they cant understand even 1% in there entire life time. Plus people of the land never unite.

So balle balle from all end for gora G@nd n there lovers..

 

[Maira La]

Also I think Paniya has 30% neolithic iranian farmer dna, and that's one of the least in south asia. On average the neolithic iranian component should be the majority if not just equal to the native south asian one. The minority component is almost always the steppe component, atleast for us Indians.

Paniyas have about 22-23% ancient Zagrosian ancestry.

I couldn't find a population more native than them. I didn't want to use Onge as they separated from AASI 30-40k years ago and creates bad fit.

Anyways, the model is an approximation and it gets the message through.

 

[Hiptullha]

The issue is most of the native ancestry in the upper caste are female mediated. Which means there was serious lack of female partners for the invading/migrating Aryans.

They took wives from BMAC (also assimilated BMAC men), took wives from IVC and from among Gangetic natives. There were few female invaders/migrants, but a surplus of native women for leisure and procreation, for generations after arrival.

This scenario is repeated inside India itself, when North Indian Brahmin men arrived in South India, took local wives and got further native-ized. Today the Pancha Dravida Brahmins are more native shifted than their North Indian counterparts.

When you look at the Y-DNA composition of Brahmins, it's mostly West Eurasian. However when check the mtDNA frequency you'd find that a plurality or even majority of the mtDNA are native M, R and U2.

Geographically, Pakistan and Indian Punjab are fully dominated by West Eurasian Y-DNA, with probably about less than 5% non-West Eurasian lineage. However deeper into Indian peninsula it's only the upper caste that show this sort of Y-DNA frequency, with significant native Y-DNA among mid and lower castes.

Based Bong following in the steps of brother Rajib Khan and triggering Dasyu mutts.

 

[Maira La]

Aryan invasion is same old ripped of angreji trick of divide n rule. People become overnight stars if the say that aryan are angrez ke aulad, while dalit n advasis are local. Something like Red India are the original amreicans which is true in case of red Indians.

I showed you evidence of Aryan invasion that's written in your own genetics. How is it angreji trick? Did angreji tinker with your DNA?

 

[Varunastra]

The issue is most of the native ancestry in the upper caste are female mediated. Which means there was serious lack of female partners for the invading/migrating Aryans.

They took wives from BMAC (also assimilated BMAC men), took wives from IVC and from among Gangetic natives. There were few female invaders/migrants, but a surplus of native women for leisure and procreation, for generations after arrival.

This scenario is repeated inside India itself, when North Indian Brahmin men arrived in South India, took local wives and got further native-ized. Today the Pancha Dravida Brahmins are more native shifted than their North Indian counterparts.

When you look at the Y-DNA composition of Brahmins, it's mostly West Eurasian. However when check the mtDNA frequency you'd find that a plurality or even majority of the mtDNA are native M, R and U2.

Geographically, Pakistan and Indian Punjab are fully dominated by West Eurasian Y-DNA, with probably about less than 5% non-West Eurasian lineage. However deeper into Indian peninsula it's only the upper caste that show this sort of Y-DNA frequency, with significant native Y-DNA among mid and lower castes.

Upper caste do have higher R1A. Genetically, brahmins are often so different from lower caste Indians from the same region that they are grouped differently.

Genetical observations on caste – Brown Pundits

www.brownpundits.com

This denial of genetic and historical reality is unhealthy. Please get help.

Social Inequality Leaves a Genetic Mark

When genetic structure follows social structure.

nautil.us

Ror community which is low caste has the highest steppe ancestry in India. How do you explain that?

 

[Srinivas]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

It has to do with migrations and trade.
Occasional invasions. Invasions I mean from both the directions out of India and towards India.

There is no DNA that is identified with Aryans. Aryan itself is western invention. The word is Arya.

Britain has Lords, Mongols has Khans similarly Bharat has Aryas.

 

[Maira La]

Ror community which is low caste has the highest steppe ancestry in India. How do you explain that?

Jats and Ror are tagged 'avarna' and don't fit into the traditional Brahmin created caste hierarchy. They don't consider themselves low caste and Jats actually seem themselves as superior. Brahmins are genetically more native shifted compared to other Biradaris of Punjab and Haryana.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Afghanistan to be exact. Kabul and the surrounding Pashtun belt.

Gandharvas, according to Hindu mythology, are celestial musicians and Soma providers in Devaloka, and are destined to entertain devas and lords.

Basically, Aryans(upper castes) went to Afghanistan mountain tribe mystics to get high on Afghan Hashish, their superstitious minds thought they visited Devaloka.

Source please? You need to give the historical name and then tie that to a geography we can relate with today. The other guy mentioned Gandharava. Is that Gandhara he is talking about which is the region from present day Islamabad [Taxila] to Peshawar to Kabul?

 

[Maira La]

It has to do with migrations and trade.
Occasional invasions. Invasions I mean from both the directions out of India and towards India.

There is no DNA that is identified with Aryans. Aryan itself is western invention. The word is Arya.

Britain has Lords, Mongols has Khans similarly Bharat has Aryas.

Call it European or Aryan, it does not matter as long as I can get my message through.

We have ancient DNA from Corded Ware and Sintashta. So Yes, there is REAL DNA from ancient people who makes up the bulk of modern ancestry of Northern Europeans, and part of the ancestry of upper caste Hindus.

Lords and Khans are genetically identical to the people they rule. Not at all similar to Indian caste hierarchy.

 

[Varunastra]

Jats and Ror are tagged 'avarna' and don't fit into the traditional Brahmin created caste hierarchy. They don't consider themselves low caste and Jats actually seem themselves as superior. Brahmins are genetically more native shifted compared to other Biradaris of Punjab and Haryana.

Not sure about your avarna claim, i know they are classified as backward caste, If anyone is outside Varna system they are seen as dalits. Your theory doesn't hold here. We are all just a mix of various components, there is no racial bias here.

 

[Maira La]

Not sure about your avarna claim, i know they are classified as backward caste, If anyone is outside Varna system they are seen as dalits. Your theory doesn't hold here. We are all just a mix of various components, there is no racial bias here.

It is what it is, they are Avarna but not considered Dalit - what does that tell you? That traditional caste hierarchy and Brahmin supremacy does not work in Punjab like it works anywhere else in India. Why I don't know, I am not from Punjab and don't totally understand Punjabi social dynamics, but if I had to take a guess it's because the other Biradaris are more West Eurasian than the Punjabi Brahmins and don't see themselves as inferior in any way.

 

[Hiptullha]

i know they are classified as backward caste

I'm pretty sure there are kshatriya and rajput clans which are also tagged as OBC. It has little meaning. Dalits are distinct from these communities.

 

[Varunastra]

It is what it is, they are Avarna but not considered Dalit - what does that tell you? That traditional caste hierarchy and Brahmin supremacy does not work in Punjab like it works anywhere else in India. Why I don't know, I am not from Punjab and don't totally understand Punjabi social dynamics, but if I had to take a guess it's because the other Biradaris are more West Eurasian than the Punjabi Brahmins and don't see themselves as inferior in any way.

Whatever that may be it proves there is no racial bias to upper caste/lower caste, no racial bias to be an Arya. Steppe migration might have occured as our DNA shows but that didn't define our definition of Arya, it's a very subcontinent thing to define people with high knowledge/social status, so is vedic society and it's rituals, all native to the subcontinent, nazis usurped this with their racist ideology.

I'm pretty sure there are kshatriya and rajput clans which are also tagged as OBC. It has little meaning. Dalits are distinct from these communities.

Not sure about that but if there are it also proves my point here, there is no racial bias to this high caste low caste, you can still be backward caste. It's just a propaganda by europeans.