Indian Special Forces

[Abingdonboy]

in US SOC army, navy and air force has separate command. the chief of this special operations command will be chosen from the best of the best one from three service. in india's J_SOC only army SF officer get higher ranks.

Idk about "best of the best" but yes, they do rotate between army/navy/AF for the head. I think the fact it will be a PARA (SF) general as the head was a compromise as the Indian MoD wanted to operationalise 3 new "joint commands" is Aerospace, Cyber and SF and thus the heads of all three were split between the IAF, IN and IA respectively.

As the PARA ( SF) will be by far the largest componant of the J-SOC I guess it makes sense for the head to be IA SF Intially. Down the road I'm sure things will evolve and change. I'm just happy such a J-SOC will be raised by 2018 in India! It is a dream come true!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

They are 2 rules in my life bro...First one is that i dont earn my bread and butter from this forum so i dont care what is my seniority level here.Second this is i dont give a damn about a guy spending 8 hrs on the net and becoming "Think Tank".

Real life mein top kaun hein yeh mujko pata hein.

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Now let me come to my favourite topic....

The Indian SF school at nahan is a kinda joint training school only.CIJWS comes second where i know from a reliable source that Army SF beats all other SF in joint competitions.The Navy is getting a SF school built in Goa which would be comparable to CIJWS.Moreoever theres one more school in Karnataka on the coastline facing the Arabian sea.
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Has anyone of you heard of these words "CIT-X" and "CIT-J"

These were Indian black ops team and i can say from a confirmed source that they have done the role of Indian black ops team till the time this man fcked it up.

Any info is greatly appreciated!

he is like our current defence minister.

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do you know what kind of school is that?


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do you know why? what is your opinion about our SF. Which is the best one among the three? i heard that MARCOS has the most toughest selection process among indian special forces.

Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF.

It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.

 

[special]

Idk about "best of the best" but yes, they do rotate between army/navy/AF for the head. I think the fact it will be a PARA (SF) general as the head was a compromise as the Indian MoD wanted to operationalise 3 new "joint commands" is Aerospace, Cyber and SF and thus the heads of all three were split between the IAF, IN and IA respectively.

As the PARA ( SF) will be by far the largest componant of the J-SOC I guess it makes sense for the head to be IA SF Intially. Down the road I'm sure things will evolve and change. I'm just happy such a J-SOC will be raised by 2018 in India! It is a dream come true!!

yes you are right, but evolution is the difficult part in indian military. it took 40 years to create J-SOC from the the year para commandos are created. special forces are not even separated from parachute regiment.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

he is like our current defence minister.

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do you know what kind of school is that?


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do you know why? what is your opinion about our SF. Which is the best one among the three? i heard that MARCOS has the most toughest selection process among indian special forces.

That School is an SF school.


Look bro,all SF are good.But i am a very politically incorrect straight to the face kinda guy both in real life and web.

SF develop stratergies when they get the experience.When there is NO combat there is NO experience.You cannot go on saying that Garuds is the better SF..because it would be stupid.Rajiv Ranjan from NDTV also very carefully in his documentary said that no one can say that Garuds are not upto the mark and was always insisting on the fact that it is good that AF has its own force.Same guy goes to Army SF school in Nahan and rates Army SF(ie the PARA) as the best SF.Thats intentional and i dare say that this guy most of the times knows what he is covering.His accent is what people hate but nothing can be done about it.

My friend,I would like to tell you that Army SF became the best after the bloody history they have had in the past.I am a fcking no one in the world of SF but as a fan i would say that the 80s was the decade of learning and experience for the Army SF.It started off with the Khalistan movement and went till late 80s and early 90s where the Army SF was severely tested.

In Sri Lanka the Army SF was the only force that was feared by the LTTE at that time.They evolved stratergies and got experiecne which units dont develop by wearing a digi camo sitting comfortably in Bangalore base.Then they went to kashmir where they utilised this experience and proved their worth.

Till date Army SF leads the Op Rakshak as the most deadly unit followed closely by RR Ghatak and J&K SOG not Garud or Marcos.If we talk of the N-E the contribution of Garuds and Marcos is NULL.Army SF has done cross border raids including numerous beheading operation in the 90s and till 2010.PARA SF need not prove anything to anyone as to who the best really are.

Marcos are a amphibious force which is good around waters and not as effective in mountains and deserts.Garuds..well lets not talk about them.I am among those who get impressed by substance not show.Marcos CQB drill in 26/11 was pathetic.Say whatever like they were ill equipped and all but at the end of the day a Marcos is a Marcos and a Gardu is a Garud.Garuds also were not impressive during the one odd situation with naxals where they could have proved their mettle.

And buddies hate me for this if you want but if you have to measure the SFs capabilties by western standards in experience and skill along with high rank officer expereince then there are only 2 SFs/SUs that make the mark for me in ALL ENVIRONMENTS and Garuds and Marcos are not one of them.

 

[special]

Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF.

It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.

you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF.

It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.

Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.

Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.

Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?

Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks dont kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.

P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?

Well they have thoroughly researched it and we cant ignore their efforts in visiting various bases and meeting important people in the SF establishment.

TV reporters call Gardus as technicians..will you buy that?

 

[special]

Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.

Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.

Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?

Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks don't kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.

P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.

sharing of experience is called training right? marcos are trained in mountain warfare, desert warfare, and CIJW. the role of marcos in op rakshak is very limited, they are called in at the last min. QCB in 26/11 is worst one i had ever saw. but one thing i have to say is this techniques marcos learn is from army special forces. marcos are considered to be one of the best CT force in india. indian special forces start training with foreign special forces at this scale is only after 26/11. nsg had improve its training, marcos and army SF had also improved,

 

[special]

Well they have thoroughly researched it and we cant ignore their efforts in visiting various bases and meeting important people in the SF establishment.

TV reporters call Gardus as technicians..will you buy that?

it is just a reporter who knows nothing. after 26/11 there are many reports about marcos and there is a documentary "line of duty" about marcos. the reporter said in front of a macos that their dropout rate is 80%. in rajeev ranjan's program he said dropout is 90%. shiv aroor in his blog wrote about marcos and in it he also say dropout is 90%.
in the book indian special forces the author gets many data from internet mainly from wiki( see the books's reference)

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.

Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.

Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?

Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks dont kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.

P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.

Bro- I know you're a big PARA (SF)/IA fanboy !!

I think give all the SF guys credit where credit is due. Yes the MARCOs got somewhat shown up in 26/11 but like any proffesional force they learnt from their mistakes and have subsequently tightened up their drills/training across the board.



Yes I agree, let's keep the Garuds out of this debate for now as they are still in their infancy as a force and they have a VERY specialised set of skills/roles.


But I think any MARCOs vs PARA ( SF) debate is futile as both have different force levels, different remits, different history etc. the MARCOs are a successful unit and have excelled in pretty much every mission they've ever been given.


Let's just say the Indian J-SOC is going to be a force to reckoned with and once ever increasing degrees of training, cooperation and interaction take place things are going to look pretty darn good for Indian SOFs across the board!!

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

sharing of experience is called training right? marcos are trained in mountain warfare, desert warfare, and CIJW. the role of marcos in op rakshak is very limited, they are called in at the last min. QCB in 26/11 is worst one i had ever saw. but one thing i have to say is this techniques marcos learn is from army special forces. marcos are considered to be one of the best CT force in india. indian special forces start training with foreign special forces at this scale is only after 26/11. nsg had improve its training, marcos and army SF had also improved,

They are called in the last minute?..Who told you that..GOC of 15 corp?Dont assume things buddy..ARMY doesnt call anyone for help!That is a irresponsible statement.

Marcos are considered best by fanboys who are drooled by digi camo.No sane SF fan worth his knowledge would call them the best.

Bro- I know you're a big PARA (SF)/IA fanboy !!

I think give all the SF guys credit where credit is due. Yes the MARCOs got somewhat shown up in 26/11 but like any proffesional force they learnt from their mistakes and have subsequently tightened up their drills/training across the board.



Yes I agree, let's keep the Garuds out of this debate for now as they are still in their infancy as a force and they have a VERY specialised set of skills/roles.


But I think any MARCOs vs PARA ( SF) debate is futile as both have different force levels, different remits, different history etc. the MARCOs are a successful unit and have excelled in pretty much every mission they've ever been given.


Let's just say the Indian J-SOC is going to be a force to reckoned with and once ever increasing degrees of training, cooperation and interaction take place things are going to look pretty darn good for Indian SOFs across the board!!

Forget the fanboy stuff..Lets get to proving things here because i am tired of this useless debate.

Which high altitude operation has the Marcos done?Kindly name one.

Which desert raid in true SAS style has the MARCOS done till date?

Which CQB operation has the Marcos done till date?

Obviously you would call all the 3 indian SF as a true SF while for me only one make the cut.

Bro if looking cool is the criteria then SWAT and K9 are also SF right?

SF are a bunch of people who can do operations in any territory that is why they are a special force and not a special unit.Take Para out of NSG and it is a Special Unit not a Special Force.

 

[Abingdonboy]

you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?

That book was filed with inaccriaces and as such I took all of the content with a bucket of salt. In every report on the MARCOs the drop out rate was stated as 80-95%.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Forget the fanboy stuff..Lets get to proving things here because i am tired of this useless debate.

Which high altitude operation has the Marcos done?Kindly name one.

Which desert raid in true SAS style has the MARCOS done till date?

Which CQB operation has the Marcos done till date?

Obviously you would call all the 3 indian SF as a true SF while for me only one make the cut.

Bro if looking cool is the criteria then SWAT and K9 are also SF right?

SF are a bunch of people who can do operations in any territory that is why they are a special force and not a special unit.Take Para out of NSG and it is a Special Unit not a Special Force.

But bro you can't arbrotarily draw a line in the sand and say- everyone who crosses this line is a SF (PARA SF) and everyone who doesn't isn't. Going by this logic- how many sea interventions have the PARA (SF) done?


The GAruds and MARCOs ARE SF because they are designated as such and this will be used as such by the Indian military.


And it's not like the Garuds and MARCOs are one of those stupid police/CAPF "commando" units but true blue SOFs who go through a HELL OF A LOT to earn their SF tabs just like the PARA (SF). Just because they've not been employed in certain missions where the PARA (SF) have doesn't really mean much other than in the past all Indian SFs have been misunderstood and under-utilised by the military and civil leadership.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

it is just a reporter who knows nothing. after 26/11 there are many reports about marcos and there is a documentary "line of duty" about marcos. the reporter said in front of a macos that their dropout rate is 80%. in rajeev ranjan's program he said dropout is 90%. shiv aroor in his blog wrote about marcos and in it he also say dropout is 90%.
in the book indian special forces the author gets many data from internet mainly from wiki( see the books's reference)

Marcos and garuds are all talk.I would like to meet the man who rated them the best.By the way it was 26/11 where they were rated the best and we all know what happened in 26/11.

I would honestly rate SSG above Marcos and Garud in Kashmir.And i am saying this after being neutral.SSG can easily score over Marcos and garuds in Kashmir valley.Although Para would be the best and it is PARA who faces Pakistani threat.

Mind you again,PARA is the last unit which the Army calls in kashmir and there is no operation which Para cant do from Amphibious operation in Manipur to high altitude beheading in Kashmir never ever ever did the Army call Marcos.

And it would be a shame if the Army has to call Marcos when even the RR ghataks can perform better.

But bro you can't arbrotarily draw a line in the sand and say- everyone who crosses this line is a SF (PARA SF) and everyone who doesn't isn't. Going by this logic- how many sea interventions have the PARA (SF) done?


The GAruds and MARCOs ARE SF because they are designated as such and this will be used as such by the Indian military.


And it's not like the Garuds and MARCOs are one of those stupid police/CAPF "commando" units but true blue SOFs who go through a HELL OF A LOT to earn their SF tabs just like the PARA (SF). Just because they've not been employed in certain missions where the PARA (SF) have doesn't really mean much other than in the past all Indian SFs have been misunderstood and under-utilised by the military and civil leadership.

So bro,according to you 1 SF is experienced but not the best and 2 SF dont have the experience but are the best?

By the way have you ever thought why are they not deployed and why is the Army SF only deployed for operations like Lake Lokhtak and high altitude operation even after the media labelling the Marcos the best?

Garuds are not a SF in my book.The IA Gorkhas can do a better job with the same equipments and little bit specialised training.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

And its really cool to assume things when the reality is that there is no permanenet seats for MARCOS in HAWS(now you wont know what that means but you would claim that MARCOS are highly trained in mountain warfare).

I wonder where else do they do their high altitude training and where are they deployed coz the only place Marcos can be found in all of troubled kashmir is Srinagar city in their boats.