Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Capt.Popeye]

We already have concluded multiple exercise to effect the same, just recently we conducted a mammoth exercise where the ISAR and MPA platforms of the IN were coordinated along with surface and sub surface combatants (the latter by dint of the VLF comm. facility) along with the IAF's air assets "wading into the sea", all run through the Link-2 and linebacked by the IN's own organic AEW, all of this facilitated by the IN's own dedicated satellite asset.

So, multiple engagements over vast areas is exactly what we have been training for, that is exactly why dedicated space assets were set up for the IN and preference was given to ensuring the seamless integration and development of a situation awareness picture at the theater wide level.

The sub-surface threat on the other hand will indeed remain dominant in relative terms. For multiple reasons, firstly because the IN has a severe paucity of ASW helos operating off its combatants and the NMRH/ASW helo deal has not been concluded yet, furthermore even if it were signed quickly it would take some time to build up appropriate force levels and ease them into the mix. Secondly, the absence of low/very low frequency active/passive towed array sonars in significant numbers at the moment, till the recently inducted Kamortas and the Talwar class frigates get their ACTAS sonar fitment (the latter moving into said refit next year) and lastly because the last three Agostas are capable boats.

@Donatello One can always "hear" the subs too, the sub needs to stay glued on its passive sonar, any active ping and the chances of detection go up quite a bit. The Ships have their own passive and active sonars up and running, towed arrays which can trail for kms and with sensors at variable depths (low, very low frequency brings an immense detection range increment, more than the range at which most subs will pick out the ships) negates the advantage of hiding in thermocline layers to a good extent. Add to that large area sanitation by MPAs such as the 8Is using their MAD and with persistence (and remember all this data is being collated and added to the unified picture) due to their large ETOS, then come the ASW helos which sanitize the relatively immediate area around the CBG/ship through sonobuoys and dipping sonar (marking contacts, plotting possible paths through multiple contacts) and then the ASW ships like the Kamorta themselves.

All such systems are always best utilized when they are structured in a layered manner with redundancies.

Of course, you could still eat a torpedo as stated before, just haggling over the technical point of sub vs. surface.

The part about the "Space Segment" is the 'big leap forward' or game-changer for the IN. So far the IN always described itself as a 3-dimensional force; now (in a manner of speaking) a 4th dimension has been added.
The networking that is now possible of all available sensors either in the same area of ocean or even different areas is a phenomenal move-up in capability.
Just think of this: like a VSAT terminal in an ATM allows you to link with your Bank in 'real-time'; the Sat-Link does that to Naval assets. I can recall the discussions with an erstwhile colleague/course-mate when he wrote up a dissertation for the Navy and I got to diss it through with him. That formed the 'concept-paper' which led to the realisation of the capability. In time we are going to see further augmentation of this capability. So much so; that some ASW/AAW sensors on a Naval asset some-where will detect a target and then pass the information to another asset in the immediate vicinity of the target which will be in a more passive (and silent) mode; then will launch its weapons at the target. In short, the prey will become a predator.
Or the prey will continue the "cat and mouse" games and lead other Hunters to the Lurker. The combinations will grow in variety and numbers; thanks to this dimension.

 

[Dillinger]

The part about the "Space Segment" is the 'big leap forward' or game-changer for the IN. So far the IN always described itself as a 3-dimensional force; now (in a manner of speaking) a 4th dimension has been added.
The networking that is now possible of all available sensors either in the same area of ocean or even different areas is a phenomenal move-up in capability.
Just think of this: like a VSAT terminal in an ATM allows you to link with your Bank in 'real-time'; the Sat-Link does that to Naval assets. I can recall the discussions with an erstwhile colleague/course-mate when he wrote up a dissertation for the Navy and I got to diss it through with him. That formed the 'concept-paper' which led to the realisation of the capability. In time we are going to see further augmentation of this capability. So much so; that some ASW/AAW sensors on a Naval asset some-where will detect a target and then pass the information to another asset in the immediate vicinity of the target which will be in a more passive (and silent) mode; then will launch its weapons at the target. In short, the prey will become a predator.
Or the prey will continue the "cat and mouse" games and lead other Hunters to the Lurker. The combinations will grow in variety and numbers; thanks to this dimension.

Ergo my stress on the "complete situational picture being painted at the theater wide level". Link-2 Mod3, GSAT-7 and our C2 systems have really changed the game. Why would I want to go active, why would I ping a sub when I can glue on to the hydrophones and let assets which are up in the air (immune to torpedoes) do the active pinging and build the picture for me, pretty basic, just magnified across a vast geography.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Ergo my stress on the "complete situational picture being painted at the theater wide level". Link-2 Mod3, GSAT-7 and our C2 systems have really changed the game. Why would I want to go active, why would I ping a sub when I can glue on to the hydrophones and let assets which are up in the air (immune to torpedoes) do the active pinging and build the picture for me, pretty basic, just magnified across a vast geography.

It is precisely this 4th dimension; or the ability to link-up seamlessly via a secure connection that has tipped the balance against the submarine again. Modern SSKs are potent weapons, even more so with the ability to lurk because of the advent of AIP.
But they are certainly vincible, when multiple sensors act together; even more so when they are out of reach of the Sub itself. Even SURTASS is a huge capability for surface ships today, which had already begun to change the balance in the Sub-Surface Ship equations.
While the Airborne ASW capability helps to scan large areas of Ocean in the preliminary search, and can then again be called upon when the Search gets localised.
Not to forget that even SATs can have multi-payloads and even contribute Sensor Capability!!

 

[Zarvan]

That was so easy when you compiled all solution in one paragraph.But friend reality is far away from it.



But your posts are truly professional.Only professional sailor can reply like that.

O mr Saudis have always helped us and after nuclear the help has increased and situation in middle east will make it more easy to get Saudi fund our ships

 

[shaheenmissile]

Pakistan has far too many platform which can fire various types of anti ship missiles.
P-3C orion,Mirage ROSE and sea king helicopters with harpoon missiles. Z-9C , JF-17 with C-802 Missiles.
And Dont Forget CM-400AKG fired from JF-17.
Also many PN ships and missile boats can fire both chinese and American harpoon Missiles.

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Billion Dollar Ships can be brought down by few hundred thousand dollars worth of Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles.

I love those odds. Please build more of these TUBS for our Target practice....

People laughed the same way when Israel made iron dome that uses a missile costing 10-20 times that of the rocket it intercepts and destroys. Today in the Gaza episode, that cost is reflected in the total asymmetry between the civilian deaths in Israel vs civilian deaths in Gaza. People laughing at that time aren't laughing any more.

Draw the parallel.

 

[SrNair]

O mr Saudis have always helped us and after nuclear the help has increased and situation in middle east will make it more easy to get Saudi fund our ships

Funding is one issue .Developing technology is another.
Even if you develop such a ship by Saudi fund who would be its owner ?(strenious effort to develop the technology is also in back ground)

If you want to develop something do your own.Otherwise it
would be a disaster.
Decades of effort of Naval Design Bureau enabled our Naval builders for such an adventure.I dont know about Pak ship building capability ,let alone the designing of a stealth destroyer.

 

[Zarvan]

Funding is one issue .Developing technology is another.
Even if you develop such a ship by Saudi fund who would be its owner ?(strenious effort to develop the technology is also in back ground)

If you want to develop something do your own.Otherwise it
would be a disaster.
Decades of effort of Naval Design Bureau enabled our Naval builders for such an adventure.I dont know about Pak ship building capability ,let alone the designing of a stealth destroyer.

mr if use Saudi money than we would bye Type 52 not develop on our own mr and if we get more money we may get TOT

 

[T-123456]

even after a decade and with great economy better to get Type 52 than going for this

Why go for the Type 52 and not for the TF-2000 when you have the money,could you explain?

 

[Zarvan]

Why go for the Type 52 and not for the TF-2000 when you have the money,could you explain?

because last time I checked TF-2000 price is expected to be 3 billion dollars per piece but Type 52 costs 800 million dollars

 

[Neptune]

The CAFRAD is impressive by the way, to the best of my knowledge it will match the European APAR and the Israeli MF-STAR, integrated mast with 4 emitting arrays, yes?

Yes. CAFRAD consists by:

- Long Range Search Radar
- Electronically Scanning IFF Antenna
- Illumination Radar
- Fire Control Radar
- Ares 2NS Electronic Support/Attack System
- X Band Satellite Communication System
- Multifunctional Radar

Besides the CAFRAD complex, there will be a bigass size AESA radar. Let's see what the engineers will come up with
Courtesy of cabatli_53

because last time I checked TF-2000 price is expected to be 3 billion dollars per piece but Type 52 costs 800 million dollars

Nahh.. the price is expected to be 1-1.1 billion USD per ship.

 

[Armstrong]

Yes. CAFRAD consists by:

- Long Range Search Radar
- Electronically Scanning IFF Antenna
- Illumination Radar
- Fire Control Radar
- Ares 2NS Electronic Support/Attack System
- X Band Satellite Communication System
- Multifunctional Radar

Besides the CAFRAD complex, there will be a bigass size AESA radar. Let's see what the engineers will come up with
Courtesy of cabatli_53

Don't talk to @Dillinger - He is the Enemy !

The only thing you ought to be doing is to have him sent to Greece disguised as a mermaid while secretly leaking information to the Greek Navy that @Dillinger is actually an under-cover spy for the Turkish Navy !

 

[Kompromat]

@Neptune

What is the unit cost of the TF-2000?

 

[Neptune]

@Neptune

What is the unit cost of the TF-2000?

There's not an official price but $4,000,000,000 has been given by government for 4 ships + R&D. We expect that the price per ship would be 1-1.1 billion dollars because of large missile inventory, hell of a sensors and Laser CIWS, CAFRAD...etc.

Don't talk to @Dillinger - He is the Enemy !

The only thing you ought to be doing is to have him sent to Greece disguised as a mermaid while secretly leaking information to the Greek Navy that @Dillinger is actually an under-cover spy for the Turkish Navy !

Just as I was about to say...Buttstrong's back

 

[Kompromat]

There's not an official price but $4,000,000,000 has been given by government for 4 ships + R&D. We expect that the price per ship would be 1-1.1 billion dollars because of large missile inventory, hell of a sensors and Laser CIWS, CAFRAD...etc.



Just as I was about to say...Buttstrong's back

Are they planning a direct energy weapon to be integrated?

What is other type of weapons on this ship and if it is frigate or a destroyer?