Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Dillinger]

Of course I do yara

But negotiations are already done for SM-2 Block IV Mk 21 integration to CAFRAD. For SM-3 Block 1A, it's ongoing. But who do you refer in exact, PN or TNF?

Also I don't think that PN will ever match IN..encounter should be focused through Air Force.

THE PN! Not the Turkish Navy (which will of course be free to use said interceptors since that is what the deal is all about), the Europeans have integrated the SM-2 and ESSM with the APAR and L-STAR combo too much like the TNF will with CAFRAD, this does not mean that the Netherlands can sell De Zeven Provincien class ships to a third party along with the SM-2 and ESSM without prior US permission.

So yes, Turkey will be free to sell the CAFRAD sensor suite or integrate it as they please, it will be free to use the SM-2, SM-3 and the ESSM along with CAFRAD on its ships but IT CANNOT export said interceptors mated with the CAFRAD to a third party.

In essence, if you export the TF2000 you will have to do so without the SM-2, SM-3 and ESSM unless the US allows it.

The same way we were offered the Aegis interceptor package in a JV with Hyundai for integration, doesn't mean if India had opted for it that we could sell the same to a third party.

 

[Neptune]

THE PN! Not the Turkish Navy (which will of course be free to use said interceptors since that is what the deal is all about), the Europeans have integrated the SM-2 and ESSM with the APAR and L-STAR combo too much like the TNF will with CAFRAD, this does not mean that the Netherlands can sell De Zeven Provincien class ships to a third party along with the SM-2 and ESSM without prior US permission.

So yes, Turkey will be free to sell the CAFRAD sensor suite or integrate it as they please, it will be free to use the SM-2, SM-3 and the ESSM along with CAFRAD on its ships but IT CANNOT export said interceptors mated with the CAFRAD to a third party.

In essence, if you export the TF2000 you will have to do so without the SM-2, SM-3 and ESSM unless the US allows it.

The same way we were offered the Aegis interceptor package in a JV with Hyundai for integration, doesn't mean if India had opted for it that we could sell the same to a third party.

Now I get what you mean. Probably the same issue with TAI T-129 we had. US engines

 

[Dillinger]

Now I get what you mean. Probably the same issue with TAI T-129 we had. US engines

The CAFRAD is impressive by the way, to the best of my knowledge it will match the European APAR and the Israeli MF-STAR, integrated mast with 4 emitting arrays, yes?

 

[Echo_419]

Planned: 4 (for $4 billion)
Displacement: 7,000 tonnes
Length: 147-150 m
Beam: 18 m

Radar: ASELSAN radar complex called CAFRAD (Long range search radar, illumination radar, fire control radar, Ares 2NS Electronic Support/Attack EEW system at the top of the mast, X band satellite communication system).


Armament:

-1x 127mm 127/64 Naval Gun

-2x Aselsan STAMP stabilized 25mm gun platform

- ROKETSAN Atmaca anti-ship missile 250km (Atmaca will have capability of both land attack and anti-ship capabilities)

- ROKETSAN Gezgin LACM (2,500 km)

- ASELSAN/TUBITAK High Enery Laser CWIS

- ROKETSAN Hisar-A/O SAM missiles integration efforts may be taken place in accordance with Turkish Naval Forces requirements.

- RAYTHEON RIM-156 SM-2 Block IV Mk-21

- RAYTHEON RIM-161 SM-3 Block IA

- RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (CIWS-PDMS)

- RUM-139 VL-ASROC (Anti Submarine Weapon )...22km

-Mk-32 Torpedo Tubes

Aircraft: SH-60B LAMPS II Seahawk
Unmanned Aerial Vehicle


@Zarvan it's $1 billion per ship. If Pakistan aquires it in future possibly with soft loan..at 2020 I think PAK budget would be much higher than today. No ship at South Asia may match with it.

$1 Billion is the key thing here,the current state of PK economy simply does not allow them to purchase $1 Billion Ships & neither can turkey offer Soft loans for it & if that ships has US engines then again you will not be able to sell it to PK,like what happened to T-129 helo deal.

 

[Screambowl]

Brother,

Please check the capability of RAAD, easily deliver from any Plane, from 30000+ feet in the Air having range of more than 500 KM, so two or three Raad Missiles hit from different directions, counter measures of any ship will not able to tackle that!

So brother your kolkaata class will be easily turned in koool caata class. nothing to worry .

Danish

RAAD or Babur are not anti ship missiles. The warhead and the navigation control is different for an anti ship missile. They are more sea skimming Their speed is slow and high possibility of getting shot by simple machine gun fire.

 

[waz]

The answer is the Pakistani navy doesn't have a direct counter. It has a range of options that can impede the deployment of such a vessel near us.

The bottom line is that Pakistan needs to build its surface fleet if it is ever able to pose a threat to such ships. This has been discussed many times. I don't see the reason for a thread to be opened on the basis of one type of ship.....

How about the 7,000t TF2000 class AAW frigate.

Exactly.

With China and Turkey's help, Pakistan can build a powerful fleet. But we also have the issue of funds. As time goes by, with the economy getting better, this won't be a problem.

 

[Storm Force]

The reason the thread was opened it's the first billion dollar indengious ship that India launched and went into service this. Month

Multi layered highly advanced it'd capable of hurting Pakistan tri services ie your air force and navy and land forces near the coast.

Being new it would make sense to discuss a pak response.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan needs cruise missile destroyers locally designed & built

that will take time mean while we should try to to get Type 52 Destroyer

 

[Kompromat]

How about the 7,000t TF2000 class AAW frigate.

We can't really afford this piece, at least for a decade.

 

[Zarvan]

We can't really afford this piece, at least for a decade.

even after a decade and with great economy better to get Type 52 than going for this

 

[SrNair]

We already have concluded multiple exercise to effect the same, just recently we conducted a mammoth exercise where the ISAR and MPA platforms of the IN were coordinated along with surface and sub surface combatants (the latter by dint of the VLF comm. facility) along with the IAF's air assets "wading into the sea", all run through the Link-2 and linebacked by the IN's own organic AEW, all of this facilitated by the IN's own dedicated satellite asset.

So, multiple engagements over vast areas is exactly what we have been training for, that is exactly why dedicated space assets were set up for the IN and preference was given to ensuring the seamless integration and development of a situation awareness picture at the theater wide level.

The sub-surface threat on the other hand will indeed remain dominant in relative terms. For multiple reasons, firstly because the IN has a severe paucity of ASW helos operating off its combatants and the NMRH/ASW helo deal has not been concluded yet, furthermore even if it were signed quickly it would take some time to build up appropriate force levels and ease them into the mix. Secondly, the absence of low/very low frequency active/passive towed array sonars in significant numbers at the moment, till the recently inducted Kamortas and the Talwar class frigates get their ACTAS sonar fitment (the latter moving into said refit next year) and lastly because the last three Agostas are capable boats.

@Donatello One can always "hear" the subs too, the sub needs to stay glued on its passive sonar, any active ping and the chances of detection go up quite a bit. The Ships have their own passive and active sonars up and running, towed arrays which can trail for kms and with sensors at variable depths (low, very low frequency brings an immense detection range increment, more than the range at which most subs will pick out the ships) negates the advantage of hiding in thermocline layers to a good extent. Add to that large area sanitation by MPAs such as the 8Is using their MAD and with persistence (and remember all this data is being collated and added to the unified picture) due to their large ETOS, then come the ASW helos which sanitize the relatively immediate area around the CBG/ship through sonobuoys and dipping sonar (marking contacts, plotting possible paths through multiple contacts) and then the ASW ships like the Kamorta themselves.

All such systems are always best utilized when they are structured in a layered manner with redundancies.

Of course, you could still eat a torpedo as stated before, just haggling over the technical point of sub vs. surface.

Nice informative post.So it seems you are a naval guy.

 

[Dillinger]

Nice informative post.So it seems you are a naval guy.

Lol no! I am a solid landlubber, find @Capt.Popeye for the rest.

 

[SrNair]

We need to improve economy fast and get 4 Destroyers from China even if we have take help from our allies in Middle East there security depends on us and for us to defend them specially Saudi Arabia we need to have at least a Navy with around 24 Major Warships and many more Submarines so they can give us money and in the mean while we can work on our economy producing electricity developing industrial areas and improving Law and Order

That was so easy when you compiled all solution in one paragraph.But friend reality is far away from it.

Lol no! I am a solid landlubber, find @Capt.Popeye for the rest.

But your posts are truly professional.Only professional sailor can reply like that.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Lol no! I am a solid landlubber, find @Capt.Popeye for the rest.

Hell!!! Even I've "swallowed the anchor" now.

 

[Dillinger]

That was so easy when you compiled all solution in one paragraph.But friend reality is far away from it.



But your posts are truly professional.Only professional sailor can reply like that.

Agent Dilli Khan, Pakistani ISI mole in the Indian armed forces reporting for duty, recently recruited The Captain and Joe as assets. Handler @Hyperion.