Indian Navy News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Better would be for IN to sell of their 16 Submarines and buy under the name of LEASE from Russia all of its 15 Akula with upgrade and stop up the plan of Arihant.

10 Kilos can be sold to Iran via Russia.

 

[sudhir007]

Better would be for IN to sell of their 16 Submarines and buy under the name of LEASE from Russia all of its 15 Akula with upgrade and stop up the plan of Arihant.

10 Kilos can be sold to Iran via Russia.

Ab tumhe Dar lag raha hi.

 

[sancho]

A dock is not a module, it is a structure.

Again putting words in my mouth? Who said that a dock is a module? I said that the aft section is build as a module and as advertised by DCSN it's up to customer requirement how to design the internal or external layout and only the mid section is aimed on fuel or supplies! That proves you wrong already, that fuel or ballast tankes needs to remove, because they would onlybe in the aft module anyway, if that would be planned with a dock. You simply deny the fact that ships today can be build in modular ways today, which can include various different options, WITHOUT the need of re-designing the complete ship. You only re-design the module according to your requirements, that's why the Enforce design can be changed from LDP, to LHD or even to JSS designs, why DCNS is ready to offer an LDP re-design of the Mistral if IN requires it, or why you cain retain with 3/4th of the current Brave concept and only would need to re-design the aft section to integrate vehilce decks, a ramp, or even a dock (and other manufacturers do it as well as earlier discussed).
So just because you say it's not possible, or just because you say IN doesn't look for replenishment and sealift capability, doesn't mean it has to be like that.

That's an old graphic, the Foxtrots are phased out, we have lost a Kilo, while the Akula is already added.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Ab tumhe Dar lag raha hi.

But its a good possibility! Because IN is having problems with its SSKs and as well as Arihant. So Getting all of the 15 Akula with upgrade might be the best option for IN.

 

[Penguin]

Who said that a dock is a module? I said that the aft section is build as a module

The BRAVE support vessel is DCNS’s response to emerging logistic support needs identified by many navi es. The design concept divides the ship into three zones:

• forward zone for platform management, living space and passenger accommodation
• midships zone for fuel tanks and replenishment rigs
• aft zone with storage space for dry cargo and munitions as well as workshops and, depending on the customer’s requirements, a vehicle storage area.

The aft zone can also accommodate various additional and optional modules (hospital extensions, shelters, etc.) for specific missions.requirements, a vehicle storage area.

BRAVE (Bâtiment RAVitailleur d’Escadre)

Therefor, the aft zone and the modules that it can accommodate are distinct and different. A dock would require an entirely new aft zone (and probably also a new middle module, depending on where the machinery is currently loacated - I suspect in the aft zone, so if that is taken up by a dock and ballast tanks, that would need to go someplace else) rather than some other mission module(s). See how modules are used in modern ships e.g.US LCS or Danish Absalon (StanFlex) or German F-125 and UK Type 26 designs.

You are confusing modular construction techniques with the use of modules aboard ships to allow role swapping.

 

[kaykay]

But its a good possibility! Because IN is having problems with its SSKs and as well as Arihant. So Getting all of the 15 Akula with upgrade might be the best option for IN.

India has its own SSN program(~10 Indegenous SSN in long run) so no need to lease more than 2 akulas for stop gap.

 

[Penguin]

You only re-design the module according to your requirements, that's why the Enforce design can be changed from LDP, to LHD or even to JSS designs,

It is NOT a coincidence that the largest Enforcer ships DO offer different aviation accommodations but DO NOT offer a choice whether or not to include a welldeck/dock. Again, adding a RAS station doesn't change an LPD or LHD into a JSS. See the Principe d'Asturias and Juan Carlos 1, which are both equipped with a RAS station on their starboard side, but are categorized as VSTOL carrier and LHD, respectively. See also Chakri Naruebet

I have and even said it in earlier posts:



And yes I showed you that even the Enforcer design included JSS concepts as well, you just denied it that's all. But modern vessels are build in moduls, the Brave is even advertised from DCNS that they create 3 different sections, only the mid section is aimed on replenishment, the aft section is aimed on customer demand, which can include vehicle decks just like in any LHD, or LDP, or further liquid tanks and cargo space. Creating an aft section design that includes a well deck and ballast tanks then is no issue at all, as that all will be included in the aft module!

Your own words.

 

[nomi007]

 

[Penguin]

It is NOT a coincidence that the largest Enforcer ships DO offer different aviation accommodations but DO NOT offer a choice whether or not to include a welldeck/dock. Again, adding a RAS station doesn't change an LPD or LHD into a JSS. See the Principe d'Asturias and Juan Carlos 1, which are both equipped with a RAS station on their starboard side, but are categorized as VSTOL carrier and LHD, respectively. See also Chakri Naruebet

A ras rig does not a jss make.

Chakri Neurabet (1 ras station at the starboard bridge wing)

Principe d'Asturias (2 ras station, at the starboard bridge wing and near the rear of the island)

Juan Carlos 1 (a ras station near the starboard rear of the Island.

HMAS Canberra (1 ras station at the Island rear)

USN LHA/LHD here USS Peleliu (LHA 5) with 1 ras rig on the starboard side of the Island)

USS Makin Island (LHD 8) 1 ras rig on the Island.

 

[Penguin]

JSS Doorman: a ramp to to dockside plus a ramp to sealevel > vehicle deck at sealevel+1 (not at sea level as with Rotterdam/DeWith/Bay/Galicia 'Enforcer'-family LPDs. No dock.

Size comparison of largest Enforcer family member (purple) in service with JSS Doorman (red). Main engine room of Enforcer is below superstructure, that of JSS Doorman underneath flight deck, towards stern. Adding a dock to JSS Doorman would require a radical redesign.

 

[Penguin]

The Combat Supply Ship (BAC) "Cantabria", built by Navantia in the San Fernando-Puerto Real shipyard (ship with similar purpose/configuration as DSCN Brava, note the location of the shaft and engine room).

The ship has a length of 174 meters and a full-load displacement of 19,500 tons. Its top speed exceeds 21 knots and its range at 13 knots (economic speed) is 6,000 nautical miles. It also has a flight deck and hangar from which to operate three AB212 medium helicopters two SH3D or NH90 heavy helicopters. Through its five refueling stations (one in the stern) it can provide 8,000 cubic meters of fuel to ships and 1,500 cubic meters to aircraft. It can also supply ammunition, supplies and food to a force at sea and deliver fuel to three ships simultaneously at full speed. The ship has a hospital with a ten-bedcapacity, a fully equipped operating room with facilities for the implementation of telemedicine by videoconference, an X-ray room, a dentist, laboratory, sterilization, medical consultation and central gas reserves. This equipment enables the "Cantabria" to intervene in humanitarian aid to disasters. Featuring a double hull to respect the environment, complying with laws and international conventions in this field, although by virtue of his military ship is not legally obliged to, "Cantabria" has also been designed for environmental protection actions, and it can address situations such as risk of pollution from spills of cargo and / or fuel resulting from shipping accidents. The crew includes 122 people, but the ship has the capacity to accommodate another 136, including the crew for the on-board helicopters.

Slightly smaller 17,045t sister ship Patino. The 170m-long Patino tanker was designed under a joint initiative between Spain and the Netherlands, which also produced HRMS Amsterdam. The Patino auxiliary oiler and multiproduct replenishment ship was designed under a joint initiative between Navantia (formerly Bazan, then Izar) in Spain and the Dutch Netherlands United Shipbuilding Bureau (NEVESBU) based in the Hague. Spain and the Netherlands were at the time also pursuing a joint LPD programme which resulted in the Rotterdam for the RNlN and the Galicia for the Spanish Navy. The Spanish Ministry of Defence ordered the Patino fleet logistic tanker in December 1991. The Patino, which carries the pennant number A14, was built at Navantia's Ferrol shipyard and was launched in the summer of 1994.

Patino Class Auxiliary Oiler and Replenishment Ship - Naval Technology

The essentially identical cousin, RNthN Amsterdam. The Netherland's Amsterdam Class fast combat support ship, of a very similar design to Patino, was built by Merwede and Royal Shelde and commissioned in 1995. Together with JSS Doorman she is responsible for the resupply of the Dutch fleet.

Canadian JSS program info:

Joint Support Ship - JSS Project - JSS ACAN - Canadian Navy - AOR Replacement - Replenishment at Sea - Multi-Role Ship - CASR Background - Project Managment - Design Contacts - ALSC Project - Afloat Logistics Sealift Capability - Government Military Contracts - Ship Yard - Shipyard Jobs - Naval Architecture - AOR - Succession Planning - Defence Procurement - Defence Policy - Defence Planning - Canadian Navy - Canadian Forces - DND - Department of National Defence

Joint Support Ship - JSS Project - Canadian Navy - AOR Replacement - Replenishment at Sea - Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment - CASR Background - Project Managment - Design Contacts - ALSC Project - Afloat Logistics Sealift Capability - Protecteur AOR - BMT Aegir - Government Military Contracts - Ship Yard - Shipyard Jobs - Naval Architecture - Succession Planning - Defence Procurement - Defence Policy - Defence Planning - Canadian Navy - Canadian Forces - DND - Department of National Defence

JSS ACAN - Canadian Shipbuilding - JSS Project - AOR Replacement - CASR - Canadian American Strategic Review - Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment - Cantabria Class - Berlin Class - Protecteur Class - ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems - TKMS - Navantia SA - Flensburger Schiffbau - Commercial Vessels - Leased Ships - Military Sales - Canadian Forces - Department of National Defence - Procurement Priorities

RFA Fort Victoria

Type:Replenishment oiler
Displacement:32,300 long tons (32,818 t) full load
Length:203 m (666 ft 0 in)
Beam:30 m (98 ft 5 in)
Draught:10 m (32 ft 10 in)
Propulsion:2 shafts, Crossley-Pielstick V-16 diesels , 23,904 bhp (17,825 kW)
Speed:20 kt (23 mph; 37 km/h)
Complement:95 RFA / 15 RN / 154 FAA / 24 RNSTS civilians
Aircraft carried:Up to 5 × Sea King or Merlin helicopters (3 in hangar)

Replenishment oiler of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, a role that combines the missions of a tanker and stores supply ship. As such they are designated auxiliary oiler replenisher (AOR). They are tasked with providing ammunition, fuel, food and other supplies to RN vessels around the world.

 

[Penguin]

The BRAVE concept has been designed from the outset with international customers in mind. The basic design can be adapted to yield versions with a length overall ranging from 165 to 195 metres. Shipboard volumes and areas can also be readily tailored to increase tank capacities or accommodate a naval force command team, troops and equipment or additional hospital beds for humanitarian missions.

DCNS presents new-generation support vessels | DCNS

Company news article on Brave: no mention of tailoring it to fit a dock.

Note: most AORs can be or de facto are devided into 3 zones. The mid section being the place for fuel storage, the rear section the place for helicopters/hangar/flight deck and propulsion, typically.

Ceck out this German 'Einsatzgruppenversorger' Klasse 702 (Berlin class)
Marinefliegergeschwader 5
(click different areas of the ship for greater details)

 

[RPK]

 

[acetophenol]

DRDO Lakshya PTA from a navy ship.