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Perhaps you are confusing Mistral and Fincantieri's 20,000 t Multifunctional Ship (Fincantieri is provided the Deepak class replenisher and is involved in IAC)?

I might be mistaken but the sketch showed a LPD design and a JSS design both based on Mistral (which I know is niether LPD nor JSS instead it's a LHD) even Finc's MFS seems to be more of a LHD than a LPD.

no matter I just wanna know if IN are interested in procuring JSS designs like the Canadian Queenston Class or Dutch Karel Doorman?
 
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I might be mistaken but the sketch showed a LPD design and a JSS design both based on Mistral (which I know is niether LPD nor JSS instead it's a LHD) even Finc's MFS seems to be more of a LHD than a LPD.

no matter I just wanna know if IN are interested in procuring JSS designs like the Canadian Queenston Class or Dutch Karel Doorman?
I don't think so, IN was looking to expand/modernize landing and humanitarian relief capabilities, not replenishment and sealift capability.

Check out this page re. Fincantieri, which has offered a range of LPD/LHD/AOR/JSS on a shared base hull
Future LPD/LHD of Italian Navy and
Unità supporto logistico JSS - LSS - programma per il futuro della Marina Militare and
Nuove unità anfibie LHD 15.000 / 20.000 - programma per il futuro della Marina Militare


There is a pic from Euronaval 2010, which might be what you are referring to: French "BPC's & "Brave" designs, DCNS (but I'm not convinced they share a common base hull) See. Combat Fleets Of The World: October 2010
P9150073.JPG
 
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I don't think so, IN was looking to expand/modernize landing and humanitarian relief capabilities, not replenishment and sealift capability.

That's not correct, IN has sent out RFPs for 4 x LDPs and for 5 x Fleet Support Ships and the latter is actually more important, since it is important to boost their blue water capabilities. That's why I said earlier, that it would be better to combine the requirements and go for JSS designs. DCNS for example is offering the Mistral class LHD, if needed an LDP based on that in the one competition and might offer the Brave class in the other. So combining both in one type of vessels, that covers all requirements IN has and procuring them in a single bigger competition would be easier and faster. Not to mention that it would help the licence production too.
 
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That's not correct, IN has sent out RFPs for 4 x LDPs and for 5 x Fleet Support Ships and the latter is actually more important, since it is important to boost their blue water capabilities. That's why I said earlier, that it would be better to combine the requirements and go for JSS designs. DCNS for example is offering the Mistral class LHD, if needed an LDP based on that in the one competition and might offer the Brave class in the other. So combining both in one type of vessels, that covers all requirements IN has and procuring them in a single bigger competition would be easier and faster. Not to mention that it would help the licence production too.

sigh

the LPDs are not mean to be suppliers and vv. LPDs and strategic lift assets (including JSS) are different things. Mistral and Brave are unrelated designs.

BRAVE class replenishment and support ship AOR fleet oiler AOE Fast Combat Support Ship Batiment RAvitailleur d’Escadre VERTREP VERTical REPlenishment UNREP UNderway REPlenishment DCNS French Navy datasheet pictures photos video specifications


DCNS is offering the Mistral-class for the Indian Navy’s Landing Platform Dock (LPD) acquisition program and they say that it can act as a troop carrier, hospital ship, Humanitarian Aid and Disaster relief (HADR), conduct amphibious operations as well perform the functions of a command vessel.
The warship manufacturer is also showcasing the BRAVE replenishment and support vessel, which (we imagine) performs functions similar to INS Deepak and INS Shakti, built by Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri and commissioned into the Indian Navy a few years back.
DCNS at DefExpo | StratPost
 
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sigh

the LPDs are not mean to be suppliers

Who said they were? I only corrected your point that IN was not looking for replenishment and sealift capability, which obviously is wrong!
And as earlier discussed, it's just a matter of design to add a well deck to a support ship and the same can be done with the Brave too, if neccessary and a customer would have the requirement.
 
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Who said they were? I only corrected your point that IN was not looking for replenishment and sealift capability, which obviously is wrong!
And as earlier discussed, it's just a matter of design to add a well deck to a support ship and the same can be done with the Brave too, if neccessary and a customer would have the requirement.
JSS is a combination of replenishment and sealift.
LPD is amphibious landing
AOR is replenishment.
Amphibious landing is not the same as sealift

And no, it is is not just a matter of ....

You want a dock, you need ballast tanks installed to lower the stern. This means relocating fuel tanks. It also affects the types and location of propulsion and shaft and and engine so on... before you know it you've designed a whole new ship.

We've had this discussion before, when you claimed the JSS Doorman to be a member of the Enforcer family of amphib assault ships. I'm surprised you haven't remembered
Indian Navy News & Discussions | Page 179

You can easily give an LPD or LHD some RAS rig(s) to allow them to service other ships. But you cannot easily provide an AOR with landing capabilites (e.g. a welldeck / dock). And a JSS does not have a well deck, it usually gets a ramp (which is not the same). It is more intended to use port facilities to off load, or to transfer at sea to assets carried bij LPD/LHD (i.e. sea basing)

Related
Joint Support Ship (JSS)
 
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I'm surprised you haven't remembered

I have and even said it in earlier posts:

That's why I said earlier, that it would be better to combine the requirements and go for JSS designs.

And yes I showed you that even the Enforcer design included JSS concepts as well, you just denied it that's all. But modern vessels are build in moduls, the Brave is even advertised from DCNS that they create 3 different sections, only the mid section is aimed on replenishment, the aft section is aimed on customer demand, which can include vehicle decks just like in any LHD, or LDP, or further liquid tanks and cargo space. Creating an aft section design that includes a well deck and ballast tanks then is no issue at all, as that all will be included in the aft module!
 
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t
I have and even said it in earlier posts:



And yes I showed you that even the Enforcer design included JSS concepts as well, you just denied it that's all. But modern vessels are build in moduls, the Brave is even advertised from DCNS that they create 3 different sections, only the mid section is aimed on replenishment, the aft section is aimed on customer demand, which can include vehicle decks just like in any LHD, or LDP, or further liquid tanks and cargo space. Creating an aft section design that includes a well deck and ballast tanks then is no issue at all, as that all will be included in the aft module!
Excuse me, you would do well to reread. You claimed the Doorman JSS was part of the Enforcer family when actually it isn't.
At 27.800 ton, the Doorman JSS (without welldeck) is not the Enforcer 18000, which is an LPD with a RAS rig, just as you find on Principe dÁsturias and Juan Carlos 1 (and you don't call those JSS either). Point is, she's not an LPD substitute.The difference between vehicle decks and a welldeck (floodable dock) appears lost on you. Even after you've been show company material of Royal Schelde and cutaways of various vessel by me, which shows how a welldeck affects engine room location, propulsion type, screw and shaft location etc.

From Navy recognition about Brave:
To better fulfil the various functions required by the logistic support of a Fleet, BRAVE is organised in three main areas: the front living area dedicated to Life and Board, accommodations, CIC and bridge, the central area with liquid tanks and all Replenishment at Sea rigs, the aft area hosting other support functions (workshops, storage, vehicles et.) and that is suitable for additional modules.
Central area can be jumboized (by adding one or two hull sections) to increase for example fuel storage capacities.
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BRAVE class replenishment and support ship AOR fleet oiler AOE Fast Combat Support Ship Batiment RAvitailleur d’Escadre VERTREP VERTical REPlenishment UNREP UNderway REPlenishment DCNS French Navy datasheet pictures photos video specifications
A dock is not a module, it is a structure.

Global Security on Brave
The BRAVE support vessel is DCNS’s response to emerging logistic support needs identified by many navi es. The design concept divides the ship into three zones:
  • forward zone for platform management, living space and passenger accommodation
  • midships zone for fuel tanks and replenishment rigs
  • aft zone with storage space for dry cargo and munit ions as well as workshops and, depending on the customer’s requirements, a vehicle storage area.
BRAVE support vessels are ideal for the underway replenishment of all types of products (dry cargo, fuel & other liquids and munitions), to provide logistic support for naval forces and to store and deliver all types of pay loads, including dangerous substances. The BRAVE design complies with the latest standards and regulations applicable to tankers, most import antly MARPOL

The fuel tank zone is of a double-hull design. The deck architecture is optimised to facilitate ca rgo handling during both loading and underway reple nishment (UNREP) whether via the rigs when connected to a receiving ship (CONREP) or using helicopters (VERTREP). To en sure that the basic design can be readily tailored to a range of payload and replenishment needs, the midship zone can be ‘jumboised’ by adding one or two hull sections. The aft zone can also accommodate various additional and optional modules (hospital extensions, shelters, etc.) for specific missions.
BRAVE (Bâtiment RAVitailleur d’Escadre)

A dock is not a module, it is a structure.

brave_back.jpg

Dock? Not even ramp.

MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: Mönch on the Road - EURONAVAL 2012 Press Tour: The French Navy and Industry Spotlights Advanced Capabilities
euronaval2).jpg
 
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The Indian Navy plans to purchase 5 40000 Tonner fleet support ship.

fleet support ship captain 200 meters, full drainage capacity of 40000 tons, taking 190 sailors and 24 officers, with a multi-purpose helicopters; equipment 2 30 mm gun, 2. 12.7 mm gun, 4 sets of interference missile launcher; can be towed a ship of the same size ship; task execution time of 60 days, with a speed of 16 knots cruise 12000 knots, the service period of 30 years.
The Indian Navy plans to purchase 5 40000 Tonner fleet support ship · Car Parts, Truck Parts

self-propelled Fleet Support Ships (FSS) that should be capable of transferring all types of stores, ammunition, fuel and personnel to naval units while underway at sea
Navy to acquire five self-propelled Fleet Support Ships - The Hindu

Indian Navy For 5 More Fleet Tankers The Indian Navy has announced interest in acquiring five new fleet support ships
Google



Brave by comparison is 10k tons lighter in full load displacement than the Fleet Tanker RFP
Type
Multi-Mission Replenishment and Support ship
Crew
100 (+ accomodations for 100)
Operators
None (Project in development)
France in the future. Available for export.
Performance
Top Speed: 20 kts
Range: 10,000 nm @ 18 kts
Endurance: N/A
Displacement
30,000 tons
Engines
N/A
Aircraft
Spots: 2, one for heavy helicopter.
Hangar: 2 mid-size helicopters (10 tons class)

Dimensions

Length: 195 m
Breadth: 28 m
Maximum Draft: 8.7 m
 
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t
Excuse me, you would do well to reread. You claimed the Doorman JSS was part of the Enforcer family when actually it isn't.
At 27.800 ton, the Doorman JSS (without welldeck) is not the Enforcer 18000, which is an LPD with a RAS rig, just as you find on Principe dÁsturias and Juan Carlos 1 (and you don't call those JSS either). Point is, she's not an LPD substitute.The difference between vehicle decks and a welldeck (floodable dock) appears lost on you. Even after you've been show company material of Royal Schelde and cutaways of various vessel by me, which shows how a welldeck affects engine room location, propulsion type, screw and shaft location etc.

From Navy recognition about Brave:
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BRAVE class replenishment and support ship AOR fleet oiler AOE Fast Combat Support Ship Batiment RAvitailleur d’Escadre VERTREP VERTical REPlenishment UNREP UNderway REPlenishment DCNS French Navy datasheet pictures photos video specifications
A dock is not a module, it is a structure.

Global Security on Brave

BRAVE (Bâtiment RAVitailleur d’Escadre)

A dock is not a module, it is a structure.

brave_back.jpg

Dock? Not even ramp.

MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: Mönch on the Road - EURONAVAL 2012 Press Tour: The French Navy and Industry Spotlights Advanced Capabilities
euronaval2).jpg

Pakistan and other Muslim countries especially from GCC to do JV with EU and develop our own Automotive and Ship building industry.
 
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attachment.php

Royal NL 27k ton JLOS/JSS Doorman early design study (source: MoD)

Untitled.png

Royal NL 27k ton JLOS/JSS Doorman: note absence of dock, rudder, screw/shaft en engine room positions in the rear of the vessel. Vehicle deck is 1 level above waterline, with acces ramp down to waterline level at rear ("steel beach")


scheld10eq4.gif

Cutaway of initial Enforcer ship (Rotterdam/Galicia classes): Note that welldeck is normally level at the waterline, rudder and screws are located more forward relative to Doorman JSS, shafts leads to engine room underneath the superstructure.


enforcer-18000-lpd.gif

Enforcer 18000 from Enforcer series (souce: GlobalSecurity)
Enforcer Series amphibious support ships

enforcer-2006-image2.jpg


Note the Enforcer 18000 is in the range of ships with a beam of 29,6m, for which there are 2 differen aviation arrangment options: these Enforcer LPD/LHD design variants share a common base hull (which includes a dock as standard)
1369754102.jpg
 
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The purpose of (bigger) fleet tankers is to resupply the (smaller, faster) one-stop supply ships operating directly in support of a task force and possibly dock landing ships (i.e. seabasing).

Comparison of :
HMAS Succes, a french designed 17.8k fld ton Durance class Bâtiment de commandement et ravitailleur (BCR, "command and replenishment ship")
HMNZS Endeavour, a 12.3k fld ton fleet oiler built in South Korea to a commercial design
31.5k ton Wave class Royal Fleet Auxiliary "Fast Fleet Tankers" tasked with providing fuel, food, fresh water, ammunition and other supplies to Royal Navy ships

HMNZS_Endeavour.jpeg


IN ships:


Aditya-class Replenishment oiler & Repair ship 24,612 tonnes


Deepak-class Replenishment oiler 27,500 tonnes


Jyoti-class Replenishment oiler 35,900 tonnes
 
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@Penguin what will be the options for IN support ship ?
Here is the tender -http://tenders.gov.in/innerpage.asp?choice=tc5&tid=del559005&work=1
 
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Dimensions

The principal dimensions of the ship should be:

(a) Length Overall - About 200 m.

(b) Beam Max - About 25 m.

Draught - Max 10 m

displacement of approximately 40,000 tons in the fully loaded condition


Speed

The ship should have the following designed speeds:-

(a) Not less than 20 knots of Maximum Continuous speed, at ambient temperatures upto 40 deg C, in the fully laden condition upto Sea State 3 and while less than six months out of dock.

(b) An economical speed of 15 knots.

(c) RAS speed of 12 -16 knots.

Propulsion

The ship is to have Diesel propulsion (CODAD), with a single shaft configuration with CPP.

Underway-Replenishment Fleet Tanker

Aviation Facilities

Helo deck to handle Multi Role Helicopter.

Complement

About 190 with 24 officers.

Hull Form

The ship is to be double hulled. The ship is to be built in accordance with IRS Classification Society Standards, for hull.
 
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BUILDING WARSHIPS TOWARDS SELF-RELIANCE

There can be no denying the fact that in charting the course of transforming Indian Navy (IN) from its hitherto 'buyers' label to present-day 'builders' navy, warship construction in India has leap-frogged to a new realm altogether.

In that transformation, Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited (GRSE), one of the four Indian shipbuilding Defence Public Sector Undertaking (PSU), ranks as the 'Best Performing Defence Shipyard' in the country since last few years.

Remarkably, GRSE is the first Indian shipbuilding company that has launched the first-ever export warship, an Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) for the Government of Mauritius.

It has also completed successful sea trials of the first anti-submarine warfare (ASW) corvette for IN, which is expected to be commissioned soon. Besides, it has also recently launched first in the series of several Landing Craft Utility (LCU) ships it is building for our navy.

A Mini-Ratna Category-1 company since 2006, GRSE is among the profit making PSUs. Currently engaged with projects worth 10,000 Crore and credited with an 'Excellent' MoU rating for last three years, GRSE overhauled its turnover of 1,500 crore of previous fiscal by 100 in the fiscal that ended last month.

Founded in 1884 as 'River Steam Navigation Company' of England, the small ship-repair yard on the western bank of Hooghly transformed into a Joint Stock Company in 1934 renaming itself as 'Garden Reach Workshops' (GRW) deriving its 'Garden' nomenclature from the famous botanical garden on its opposite bank. The word 'Reach' means a stretch of land between two bends of a river.

The company was finally acquired by Government of India on April 19, 1960 and was placed under the Ministry of Defence. The company was rechristened 'Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited' on January 1, 1977.

The initial years of GRSE remained essentially marine repair work. By 1961, however, it proved its warship building capability by offering IN its first indigenously built ship, INS Ajay. The warship was later gifted to Bangladesh Navy in 1974 and was rechristened BNS Surma.

GRSE is also the only Indian shipyard to have built an oil tanker and hovercraft so far. It has also to its credit the proven design and delivery of a 'Landing Ship'. Although a marine repair work company, GRSE is also the largest manufacturer of portable or bailey bridges in India, an unheralded feat, much lesser feted.

More than 5,000 bailey bridges have so far been delivered to the Indian Army. It includes bridges at highest altitudes in the world. The bridges developed include double-lane bridges with enhanced load carrying capacity. GRSE has the capacity to build 43 single-lane and 26 double-lane bridges in a year.

Among its other users are Bhutan and Myanmar besides Public Works Department of various states and private firms. Now the states of Odisha and Jharkhand have also evinced interest in acquiring bailey bridges from GRSE.

In its early years, post its acquisition into the defence PSU fold, it also manufactured equipment such as level luffing wharf cranes, EOT (Electrical Overhead Travelling) cranes, road rollers, bailey bridges, mining machinery, turbine pumps, railway signalling equipment, package boilers, electric cargo winches, air compressors, aerial ropeways and even vitreous-enamelled sanitary ware among other things.

Today, capable of building 14 ships at any given time including both large and small ships, it has steadily modernised its infrastructure and yard capacity to not only building ships but also has enhanced its manufacturing capability of single and double-lane bridges.

In the first decade following its acquisition, GRW as it was then known was slowly but steadily making inroads into sturdier warship building projects. By 1969-70, GRW had also become the principal manufacturers of harbour crafts like tugs, dredgers, hopper barges and several other marine vessels for government and several Port Trusts.

By 1973-74, the company also delivered to the Indian Navy a superbly versatile 40-Ton, Bollard pull-tug INS Gaj, the biggest 'Ocean going Tug' of its time in Asia. In the subsequent decades a resurgent GRSE continued to be the bulwark of Indian shipbuilding industry hauling out 89 warships for the Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard and nearly 700 vessels for a number of State Governments and Port Trusts.

GRSE, today, is manufacturing a wide range of high-tech modern warships and hovercraft including frigates, corvettes, ASW corvettes, landing ship tank, fleet replenishment tankers, LCU ships, survey vessels, water-jet fast attack craft and interceptor boats.

Among the deck machinery it manufactures include davits, winches, capstans, helicopter traversing systems for ship-borne applications and portable steel bridges for hilly areas, notably for Indian Army operations as also for rural road appliances. It also assembles high-value engineering items like diesel engines and its overhaul.

In recent years with its modernised yards and docks, GRSE is marshalling all its efforts towards achieving near 100 per cent indigenisation in its future shipbuilding endeavours. The third ASW corvette in the series of the four P-28 corvettes being built for the IN has a remarkable 90 per cent indigenised content, not unachieved by any defence shipyard in the country so far.

With a 20 per cent growth over its previous fiscal values of production (VOP), from a turnover of 574 Cr in 2007-08, GRSE achieved a VOP of 1,600 Cr in 2013-14. With a healthy order of 25 warships in its kitty under five different projects, three from the Navy accounting for 16 ships, one from the coast guard for eight ships and an export order of an OPV for Mauritius, GRSE is only poised to steam further.

Owing to its recently-modernised main unit, GRSE will be able to undertake construction of large-size ships with modular construction concepts in a much shorter time-frame. GRSE long term plan includes creation of a 'Deep Sea Shipyard' in neighbouring Odisha.

With recognition for its achievements for new inventions in warship design, hello-traversing systems, double-lane portable steel bridges and marine pumps, GRSE continues to give top priority to and engages a lot in R&D. For the time being, however, despite a market existing for very large warships, GRSE intends sticking to building of frigates and destroyers that are the mainstay of IN.

With over 50 years of experience as a defence PSU, GRSE is fully geared to serve the maritime needs of our navy and coast guard and is integral to defence production and preparedness of our country that eventually translates into a self-reliant nation.

It is nigh impossible to miss the work ethos of its workforce that got GRSE the justifiable award of "Best performing Defence Shipyard in the Country" for the years 2012 and 2013.

Emblazoned everywhere in the GRSE workplace are three words -- Work is Warship -- that sums up the motto of its nearly 3,500 strong workforce set to build a self-reliant Indian Navy.

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GRSE turns a new leaf tomorrow on turning 54.
A feature on the eve of their anniversary)

By Group Captain Tarun Kumar Singha VSM & Bar
Chief Public Relations Officer, Defence, Kolkata
Photos: Maj Sandesh Rokade and GRSE archives

Here are some photos from GRSE, Kolkata

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And this photo will give sleepless night to our Neighbors :p:
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