Indian LCA Tejas Or Pakistani JF-17: Who Is Winning The Malaysian Fighter Jet Contract?

[Tornado23]

Don’t sound frustrated and disheartened.

Tejas has been inducted after initial hiccups. What was the hiccup? That IAF didn’t want to choose an aircraft that had not been fully developed as per its requirements. Does that mean that it was not as good as JF-17?
NO.

PAF inducted the JF with multiple deficiencies too. Why did it induct them? Because PAF had no other choice. With US not willing and coffers empty it had to take the JF route to survive.

On the contrary India could buy aircraft from various manufacturers across the world. The Congress government failed in providing that support and induct them in time leading to depleted squadron strength in IAF.

This aspect has been discussed threadbare on the Tejas thread multiple times so don’t rake it up again here. Please visit the thread amd do your research.


It sucks yes. For you all. For us it is doing well.



Yes I have seen multiple posts on PDF claiming JF to have a combat range of 1500 Kms. It hasn’t been confirmed by anyone on PDF with little professional credibility. It’s claim of being better than even F-16 in range is nothing but a BS.

Limited? What do you mean by that? What is the limit you want exceeded? What BVRs JF has that have no limit?

Your not approving UTTAM has no meaning.Uttam is coming up well and would be the backbone of all upcoming fighters being developed in India.

Don’t sound frustrated and disheartened.

Tejas has been inducted after initial hiccups. What was the hiccup? That IAF didn’t want to choose an aircraft that had not been fully developed as per its requirements. Does that mean that it was not as good as JF-17?
NO.

PAF inducted the JF with multiple deficiencies too. Why did it induct them? Because PAF had no other choice. With US not willing and coffers empty it had to take the JF route to survive.

On the contrary India could buy aircraft from various manufacturers across the world. The Congress government failed in providing that support and induct them in time leading to depleted squadron strength in IAF.

This aspect has been discussed threadbare on the Tejas thread multiple times so don’t rake it up again here. Please visit the thread amd do your research.


It sucks yes. For you all. For us it is doing well.



Yes I have seen multiple posts on PDF claiming JF to have a combat range of 1500 Kms. It hasn’t been confirmed by anyone on PDF with little professional credibility. It’s claim of being better than even F-16 in range is nothing but a BS.

Limited? What do you mean by that? What is the limit you want exceeded? What BVRs JF has that have no limit?

Your not approving UTTAM has no meaning.Uttam is coming up well and would be the backbone of all upcoming fighters being developed in India.

The 'deficiencies' in the JF17 blk1 was no where near the same as of those in the tejas MK1. Firstly it could actually turn. Tejas could not. Secondly it was actually inducted. Tejas wasn't. Thirdly it met constant support and development which led to the timely arrival of the block 2 which had already solved all those 'deficiencies'.

With the tejas, all we got is an example of development hell, mixed with poor execution. Its a frankenstein of a jet, that is said to be indigenous. You have a delta winged Air craft that has huge amounts of drag acting on it, sluggish turn time and a poor development history. How long did it produce and order your tejas mk1a?

First revealed and flew in 2001. Inducted in 2015...14 years.

JF 17? First flew 2003. Inducted 2007. 4 years. That's a pretty big difference mate.

No choice? We could've easily turned to the Chinese and bought off the shelf fighter jets. But we wanted our own. Something we can manufacture to save money and also export to make some extra cheddar cheese on the side.

Also yeaaaa it doing so well isn't it... Talk to me when it actually sees combat.


Claims of the 1500km range? Huh?

Claims of combat range is 1352km and that's with drop tanks I'm pretty sure, w/o using after burner possibly. I'm not to sure on the after burner part. I agree to an extent its somewhat debatable although someone did the math on pdf a long time ago regarding its range. Imo I would put it somewhere around 850-1000km combat range with 3 drop tanks.


What do i mean by limited bvr? I mean range. Your best bvr the tejas can fire is the astra mk1. A pure aim 120c5 copy with a range similar to that of the aim 120 c5. 105km-110km. Jf 17s current best bvr is the pl12/sd10a with 100km and 38g pull intercept. Although in literally less than a years time the first blk3 will land changing it to the pl15 with a quoted 250-350km range. Completely out ranging ALL ur a2a missiles even the ones that are currently in development hell.

Also ur stand off weaponry game is weaker than the jf 17s.

Anti shipping missile capability

Tejas can use kh59mk with a reported 115km to 200km range cruising at mach 0.88.

JF 17 uses Cm400akg with a 250km+ range which attacks its target at mach 4+

Next ashm

Tejas uses kh35 with a 130km range traveling at mach 0.95

Jf 17 uses the cm802a and cm802akg and c705.

Cm802 a range 180km, mach 0.9

Cm802akg reported 250km range

Cm705 170km range


Then we got A2G missiles

Tejas

Spice 2000, 40km range

HSLD 30km range max. Literally seems like an lgb.


Drdo glibe bombs 100km range

SAAW 100Km range

Jf17 uses

H4 140km range

H2 60km range

LD 10 ARM 80km

CM 102 100km range

MAR 1 100km range

RAAD 2 600km range

GB6 60km range

Takbir 100km range.


Do I need to say more?

Then with the uttam radar. Lol again at that.

 

[VkdIndian]

While engaging in an argument it is difficult to win against a juvenile argument. Everything of mine is better than your’s kind of people.

There are quite a few in your post. Just to quote a few.

Firstly it could actually turn.

You have a delta winged Air craft

Talk to me when it actually sees combat.

An aircraft that hasn’t seen combat is not worthy of induction? Has any Chinese jet seen combat till now. Had JF-17 seen combat when it was inducted? Does seeing combat make an aircraft more capable? An aircraft gets into a combat situation and delivers as per its capabilities.

Imo I would put it somewhere around 850-1000km combat range with 3 drop tanks.

Meaningless figure. As if combat range is an item available at a grocery store where you fix its rate like grocery items. With 3 drop tanks of 800 kg each how much load would it be able to take? In your quest to declare JF-17 better than Tejas you are ready to claim anything that sounds better for JF and give a shrug to anything that is associated with Tejas. Example -

Then with the uttam radar. Lol again at that.

Why is Uttam bad?

You keep changing your argument from objective to subjective as per your convenience.

I mean range. Your best bvr the tejas can fire is the astra mk1. A pure aim 120c5 copy with a range similar to that of the aim 120 c5. 105km-110km. Jf 17s current best bvr is the pl12/sd10a with 100km and 38g pull intercept.

How is 110 kms range worse than 100 km range?

Although in literally less than a years time the first blk3 will land changing it to the pl15 with a quoted 250-350km range. Completely out ranging ALL ur a2a missiles even the ones that are currently in development hell.

Whatever is supposed to be fitted on JF-17 Blk III is of supreme quality and whatever is supposed to be fitted in Tejas is of bad quality and capability.

Jf17 uses

H4 140km range

H2 60km range

LD 10 ARM 80km

CM 102 100km range

MAR 1 100km range

RAAD 2 600km range

GB6 60km range

Takbir 100km range.

Giving a long list of weapons is not very difficult. Has RAAD 2 been integrated with JF-17?
Unlike you I am ready to accept the areas where JF-17 is ahead.
First of all kudos to PAF for showing confidence in the JF that ensured that it entered service in a timely fashion which helped iron out a lot of issues.
JF-17 seems to have a good anti-ship capability. The current version of Tejas already inducted doesn’t have that.

There is a dedicated thread on Tejas where all these comparisons have been discussed threadbare. It is obvious that you haven’t bothered to put in any effort to
educate yourself before coming all guns blazing on this thread.

Before you fire your next salvo please compare certain aspects like Thrust to Wt ratio, sustained and instantaneous rates of turns, HMDS, total load carrying capabilities etc to arrive at a more objective analysis rather than “Mine is better than yours argument”.

 

[Tornado23]

While engaging in an argument it is difficult to win against a juvenile argument. Everything of mine is better than your’s kind of people.

There are quite a few in your post. Just to quote a few.




An aircraft that hasn’t seen combat is not worthy of induction? Has any Chinese jet seen combat till now. Had JF-17 seen combat when it was inducted? Does seeing combat make an aircraft more capable? An aircraft gets into a combat situation and delivers as per its capabilities.


Meaningless figure. As if combat range is an item available at a grocery store where you fix its rate like grocery items. With 3 drop tanks of 800 kg each how much load would it be able to take? In your quest to declare JF-17 better than Tejas you are ready to claim anything that sounds better for JF and give a shrug to anything that is associated with Tejas. Example -
Why is Uttam bad?

You keep changing your argument from objective to subjective as per your convenience.
How is 110 kms range worse than 100 km range?
Whatever is supposed to be fitted on JF-17 Blk III is of supreme quality and whatever is supposed to be fitted in Tejas is of bad quality and capability.


Giving a long list of weapons is not very difficult. Has RAAD 2 been integrated with JF-17?
Unlike you I am ready to accept the areas where JF-17 is ahead.
First of all kudos to PAF for showing confidence in the JF that ensured that it entered service in a timely fashion which helped iron out a lot of issues.
JF-17 seems to have a good anti-ship capability. The current version of Tejas already inducted doesn’t have that.

There is a dedicated thread on Tejas where all these comparisons have been discussed threadbare. It is obvious that you haven’t bothered to put in any effort to
educate yourself before coming all guns blazing on this thread.

Before you fire your next salvo please compare certain aspects like Thrust to Wt ratio, sustained and instantaneous rates of turns, HMDS, total load carrying capabilities etc to arrive at a more objective analysis rather than “Mine is better than yours argument”.

While engaging in an argument it is difficult to win against a juvenile argument. Everything of mine is better than your’s kind of people.

There are quite a few in your post. Just to quote a few.




An aircraft that hasn’t seen combat is not worthy of induction? Has any Chinese jet seen combat till now. Had JF-17 seen combat when it was inducted? Does seeing combat make an aircraft more capable? An aircraft gets into a combat situation and delivers as per its capabilities.


Meaningless figure. As if combat range is an item available at a grocery store where you fix its rate like grocery items. With 3 drop tanks of 800 kg each how much load would it be able to take? In your quest to declare JF-17 better than Tejas you are ready to claim anything that sounds better for JF and give a shrug to anything that is associated with Tejas. Example -
Why is Uttam bad?

You keep changing your argument from objective to subjective as per your convenience.
How is 110 kms range worse than 100 km range?
Whatever is supposed to be fitted on JF-17 Blk III is of supreme quality and whatever is supposed to be fitted in Tejas is of bad quality and capability.


Giving a long list of weapons is not very difficult. Has RAAD 2 been integrated with JF-17?
Unlike you I am ready to accept the areas where JF-17 is ahead.
First of all kudos to PAF for showing confidence in the JF that ensured that it entered service in a timely fashion which helped iron out a lot of issues.
JF-17 seems to have a good anti-ship capability. The current version of Tejas already inducted doesn’t have that.

There is a dedicated thread on Tejas where all these comparisons have been discussed threadbare. It is obvious that you haven’t bothered to put in any effort to
educate yourself before coming all guns blazing on this thread.

Before you fire your next salvo please compare certain aspects like Thrust to Wt ratio, sustained and instantaneous rates of turns, HMDS, total load carrying capabilities etc to arrive at a more objective analysis rather than “Mine is better than yours argument”.

An aircraft that hasnt seen combat being compared to an aircraft that has seen considerable amounts of combat (A2G and a2a) is considered to be less likely chosen for induction. In this case, the jf 17 is ahead of the tejas in this sector.

You know how differently a weapon performs in trials as it does in combat...

The tejas although seems advanced on paper could perform like the iraqi t72s during desert storm


The JF17 has combat experience. It gives the buyer confidence in the platform. Please stop trying to act like a smart ***. You know exactly what I'm trying to say


Also for the range. I told you someone else calculated it all

JF-17's ferry and combat ranges

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem Following on from : F-16 Ferry Range Analysis https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-649#post-8906190 and F-16 Combat Mission Radius Analysis https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-649#post-8916212 I was...

defence.pk

Also I'm not saying the range of the astra mk1 iss worse than the pl12. I'm saying it's going to be immediately outranged by a wide margin real soon by the induction of the pl15 on the blk3. Pl15 will outrange both astra mk2 and mk3 (whenever those get out of development hell) when those come into play.


Well tbf the blk3 will be far superior to your tejas by a wide margin. Pl10 + pl15 + aesa +more advanced ew suite. Gonna be fun.

Also the raad 2 induction is just around the corner. I put that in there to show that the JF17 can launch ALCM where as the tejas can't.


Thrust to weight ratio still isn't in your favour.

Tejas is 0.94

Jf17 blk 2 is 0.95 with the rd93and 1.10 with the ws13 engine

Sustained turn won't be an advantage for the tejas due to its delta winged design. You know how a delta wing works? High instant turn, high energy bleed, bad sustained turn.

 

[drumstick]

An aircraft that hasnt seen combat being compared to an aircraft that has seen considerable amounts of combat (A2G and a2a) is considered to be less likely chosen for induction. In this case, the jf 17 is ahead of the tejas in this sector.

You know how differently a weapon performs in trials as it does in combat...

The tejas although seems advanced on paper could perform like the iraqi t72s during desert storm


The JF17 has combat experience. It gives the buyer confidence in the platform. Please stop trying to act like a smart ***. You know exactly what I'm trying to say


Also for the range. I told you someone else calculated it all

JF-17's ferry and combat ranges

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem Following on from : F-16 Ferry Range Analysis https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-649#post-8906190 and F-16 Combat Mission Radius Analysis https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-f-16-discussions-2.15226/page-649#post-8916212 I was...

defence.pk

Also I'm not saying the range of the astra mk1 iss worse than the pl12. I'm saying it's going to be immediately outranged by a wide margin real soon by the induction of the pl15 on the blk3. Pl15 will outrange both astra mk2 and mk3 (whenever those get out of development hell) when those come into play.


Well tbf the blk3 will be far superior to your tejas by a wide margin. Pl10 + pl15 + aesa +more advanced ew suite. Gonna be fun.

Also the raad 2 induction is just around the corner. I put that in there to show that the JF17 can launch ALCM where as the tejas can't.


Thrust to weight ratio still isn't in your favour.

Tejas is 0.94

Jf17 blk 2 is 0.95 with the rd93and 1.10 with the ws13 engine

Sustained turn won't be an advantage for the tejas due to its delta winged design. You know how a delta wing works? High instant turn, high energy bleed, bad sustained turn.

you are so right... dont let this link go to Malaysian authorities. If they read it the competition is over

 

[Tornado23]

Thank you

you are so right... dont let this link go to Malaysian authorities. If they read it the competition is over

 

[VkdIndian]

You know exactly what I'm trying to say

Why are you getting angry on a valid question? Has any Chinese aircraft seen any combat action ever? Did F-16 see combat before induction? Having seen combat doesn’t make a platform start performing miracles.

Also I'm not saying the range of the astra mk1 iss worse than the pl12. I'm saying it's going to be immediately outranged by a wide margin real soon by the induction of the pl15 on the blk3. Pl15 will outrange both astra mk2 and mk3 (whenever those get out of development hell) when those come into play.


Well tbf the blk3 will be far superior to your tejas by a wide margin. Pl10 + pl15 + aesa +more advanced ew suite. Gonna be fun.

Also the raad 2 induction is just around the corner. I put that in there to show that the JF17 can launch ALCM where as the tejas can't.

Whatever is about to be inducted in JF-17 is just round the corner and with 5 star performance. Whatever is around the corner for Tejas is hell? Why is that so?

Thrust to weight ratio still isn't in your favour.

Tejas is 0.94

Jf17 blk 2 is 0.95 with the rd93and 1.10 with the ws13 engine

Could you please quote the source of this info.
Has WS-13 come into service? Has it been integrated with JF-17?
It would be really nice if you could post the link of your resources.

Sustained turn won't be an advantage for the tejas due to its delta winged design. You know how a delta wing works? High instant turn, high energy bleed, bad sustained turn.

Have you seen the these figures for both these aircraft?

I am asking all these questions because you have quoted various parameters that appear to suit you. Your earlier post claiming PL-10 availability on the current JFs is also not correct.

Also for the range. I told you someone else calculated it all

If someone quotes a parameter that appears insanely out, do you just accept it because it meets your narrative?

See the point you are trying to make is like a Sweet Shopkeeper who claims his curd to be sweet and that of other’s to be sour. Everything that JF-17 has is top class and good and Tejas has all the flaws including aerodynamics, engine, systems, weapons etc etc.

JF-17 BLK III capabilities are not known yet. I am quite sure that it would have a lot of new stuff not yet available in the existing versions of JF-17. The current versions of JF aren’t as great as you are trying to make them.

Tejas is definitely delayed. That delay is in the past now. It has been already inducted and all the stake holders are onboard to ensure that issues if any are ironed out. The current version which have been already inducted is very capable bird. The pace of integration of newer capabilities in the form of weapons and systems is pretty good.

The claim of long development and induction doesn’t hold water anymore.

Your claim of PL-15 and other capabilities with BlK III are just the claims. Has it been confirmed? Will it have a radar to complement such a missile? What will power such a powerful radar?

MK I A will be leagues ahead of the current versions of JF-17. The current Tejas is also ahead of current JFs in all areas except maritime strike capability and few other minor aspects.

Since BLK III details aren’t out and the info is a little sketchy, I would hold on till it’s capabilities are known.

 

[drunken-monke]

Comparison between two jets;

Category	Jf17	Tejas
Design	Cropped Delta	Delta
Material used for structure	Aluminium Alloy	Aluminium-lithium alloys, carbon fiber, and titanium alloys
Engine	1 × Klimov RD-93 afterburning turbofan with DEEC, 49.4 kN (11,100 lbf) thrust dry, 84.4 kN (19,000 lbf) with afterburner	1 × GE 404F2/J-IN20[251] turbofan, 53.9 kN (12,100 lbf) thrust dry, 90 kN (20,200 lbf) with afterburner
Empty weight	6,586 kg	6,560 kg
Fuel Capacity	2,330 kg internal fuel; 1 x 800 kg centre-line drop tank; 2 x 800 kg or 1,100 kg under-wing drop tanks	2,458 kg (5,419 lb) internal; 2 × 1,200L, 800 l drop tank inboard, 725 l drop tank under fuselage
Payload	4,600 kg (10,100 lb) external stores	5,300 kg (11,700 lb) external stores
Max speed	1,910 km/h	2,220 km/h
Cruise speed	1,359 km/h	Not available
Ferry range	3,500 km with 3 external drop tanks	3,200 km with 2x external drop tank
Combat range	1,352 km	500 km with internal fuel
Service ceiling	16,920 m	16,500 m
Rate of Climb	300m/s	Due to lower wingloading, may have higher rate of climb.
Thrust to weight ratio	0.95 with RD-93 (with 50% internal fuel and 2 x SRAAMs)	0.94 (Engine has more thrust and lower empty weight)
Wing Loading	340 kg/m2	255.2 kg/m2
Hard point	7	8
Radar (A to A mode)	200 km (for RCS of 5 m2) (V2)	Elta EL/M-2032 performance: Max Range 150 km
Weapons (A to A mode)	PL-5EII — (Infrared-homing short range missile) PL-9C — (Infrared-homing short range missile) R-Darter — (Radar-homing beyond visual range missile) PL-12 (SD-10A) — (Radar-guided beyond visual range missile 100 km)	R-73 (Infrared-homing short range missile) I-Derby ER ASRAAM (Infrared-homing short range missile) Astra Mark 1 - 110km Python-5

I believe with above comparison, JF has advantage in some features and tejas has in others.

 

[Tornado23]

Why are you getting angry on a valid question? Has any Chinese aircraft seen any combat action ever? Did F-16 see combat before induction? Having seen combat doesn’t make a platform start performing miracles.


Whatever is about to be inducted in JF-17 is just round the corner and with 5 star performance. Whatever is around the corner for Tejas is hell? Why is that so?


Could you please quote the source of this info.
Has WS-13 come into service? Has it been integrated with JF-17?
It would be really nice if you could post the link of your resources.


Have you seen the these figures for both these aircraft?

I am asking all these questions because you have quoted various parameters that appear to suit you. Your earlier post claiming PL-10 availability on the current JFs is also not correct.


If someone quotes a parameter that appears insanely out, do you just accept it because it meets your narrative?

See the point you are trying to make is like a Sweet Shopkeeper who claims his curd to be sweet and that of other’s to be sour. Everything that JF-17 has is top class and good and Tejas has all the flaws including aerodynamics, engine, systems, weapons etc etc.

JF-17 BLK III capabilities are not known yet. I am quite sure that it would have a lot of new stuff not yet available in the existing versions of JF-17. The current versions of JF aren’t as great as you are trying to make them.

Tejas is definitely delayed. That delay is in the past now. It has been already inducted and all the stake holders are onboard to ensure that issues if any are ironed out. The current version which have been already inducted is very capable bird. The pace of integration of newer capabilities in the form of weapons and systems is pretty good.

The claim of long development and induction doesn’t hold water anymore.

Your claim of PL-15 and other capabilities with BlK III are just the claims. Has it been confirmed? Will it have a radar to complement such a missile? What will power such a powerful radar?

MK I A will be leagues ahead of the current versions of JF-17. The current Tejas is also ahead of current JFs in all areas except maritime strike capability and few other minor aspects.

Since BLK III details aren’t out and the info is a little sketchy, I would hold on till it’s capabilities are known.

Why are you getting angry on a valid question? Has any Chinese aircraft seen any combat action ever? Did F-16 see combat before induction? Having seen combat doesn’t make a platform start performing miracles.


Whatever is about to be inducted in JF-17 is just round the corner and with 5 star performance. Whatever is around the corner for Tejas is hell? Why is that so?


Could you please quote the source of this info.
Has WS-13 come into service? Has it been integrated with JF-17?
It would be really nice if you could post the link of your resources.


Have you seen the these figures for both these aircraft?

I am asking all these questions because you have quoted various parameters that appear to suit you. Your earlier post claiming PL-10 availability on the current JFs is also not correct.


If someone quotes a parameter that appears insanely out, do you just accept it because it meets your narrative?

See the point you are trying to make is like a Sweet Shopkeeper who claims his curd to be sweet and that of other’s to be sour. Everything that JF-17 has is top class and good and Tejas has all the flaws including aerodynamics, engine, systems, weapons etc etc.

JF-17 BLK III capabilities are not known yet. I am quite sure that it would have a lot of new stuff not yet available in the existing versions of JF-17. The current versions of JF aren’t as great as you are trying to make them.

Tejas is definitely delayed. That delay is in the past now. It has been already inducted and all the stake holders are onboard to ensure that issues if any are ironed out. The current version which have been already inducted is very capable bird. The pace of integration of newer capabilities in the form of weapons and systems is pretty good.

The claim of long development and induction doesn’t hold water anymore.

Your claim of PL-15 and other capabilities with BlK III are just the claims. Has it been confirmed? Will it have a radar to complement such a missile? What will power such a powerful radar?

MK I A will be leagues ahead of the current versions of JF-17. The current Tejas is also ahead of current JFs in all areas except maritime strike capability and few other minor aspects.

Since BLK III details aren’t out and the info is a little sketchy, I would hold on till it’s capabilities are known.

Why are you getting angry on a valid question? Has any Chinese aircraft seen any combat action ever? Did F-16 see combat before induction? Having seen combat doesn’t make a platform start performing miracles.


Whatever is about to be inducted in JF-17 is just round the corner and with 5 star performance. Whatever is around the corner for Tejas is hell? Why is that so?


Could you please quote the source of this info.
Has WS-13 come into service? Has it been integrated with JF-17?
It would be really nice if you could post the link of your resources.


Have you seen the these figures for both these aircraft?

I am asking all these questions because you have quoted various parameters that appear to suit you. Your earlier post claiming PL-10 availability on the current JFs is also not correct.


If someone quotes a parameter that appears insanely out, do you just accept it because it meets your narrative?

See the point you are trying to make is like a Sweet Shopkeeper who claims his curd to be sweet and that of other’s to be sour. Everything that JF-17 has is top class and good and Tejas has all the flaws including aerodynamics, engine, systems, weapons etc etc.

JF-17 BLK III capabilities are not known yet. I am quite sure that it would have a lot of new stuff not yet available in the existing versions of JF-17. The current versions of JF aren’t as great as you are trying to make them.

Tejas is definitely delayed. That delay is in the past now. It has been already inducted and all the stake holders are onboard to ensure that issues if any are ironed out. The current version which have been already inducted is very capable bird. The pace of integration of newer capabilities in the form of weapons and systems is pretty good.

The claim of long development and induction doesn’t hold water anymore.

claim of PL-15 and other capabilities with BlK III are just the claims. Has it been confirmed? Will it have a radar to complement such a missile? What will power such a powerful radar?

MK I A will be leagues ahead of the current versions of JF-17. The current Tejas is also ahead of current JFs in all areas except maritime strike capability and few other minor aspects.

Since BLK III details aren’t out and the info is a little sketchy, I would hold on till it’s capabilities are known.

I ain't getting angry. Also the question is funny.

You seem to not understand what I meant.

I said an aircraft which has seen combat and came out successful will secure the sales over an aircraft that hasn't.

You really aren't that clever aren't you?

Also I don't know why you are making out that I said the equipment to be inducted onto the blk3 is gonna be the best of the best. I never said that. I merely am just hyping it up because why not. It's gonna be a real powerful combo (pl15 + pl10 + Klj7a).

Also I never said the pl10 was integrated onto the blk2. Only the blk 3. Learn to read first.


Also why is whatever to be inducted onto the tejas is 'hell'? Simple. Pretty much most of your developments are stuck in development hell. Tejas took 30 years. Arjun.... Do I need to say anything on it? Astra bvr, from 1990 to being in service since 2019. It's logical.

Also sources for the thrust to weight ratio

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - JF-17 Thunder Aircraft

www.pac.org.pk

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Also the ws13 engine I put that in their purely for control purposes. Also yes it's been tested on the JF17, there is a vid of it on the Internet I'll need to find it.

Are you also gonna tell me a delta wing has a better sustained turn than a swept wing fighter jet? That is something not even modi science can do. Swept wings will always have the advantages against a delta winged Air craft with no canards in terms of sustained turn and energy retention.

'JF-17 BLK III capabilities are not known yet. I am quite sure that it would have a lot of new stuff not yet available in the existing versions of JF-17. The current versions of JF aren’t as great as you are trying to make them.'

Jf17 blk3 capabilities aren't fully known no, but some of the are. Such as the pl10 being visible during its test flight the new radar etc.

Also the current jf17s in service have secured contracts with 2 other nations, namely Myanmar and Nigeria. How have your tejas secured?

Cope.

'Tejas is definitely delayed. That delay is in the past now. It has been already inducted and all the stake holders are onboard to ensure that issues if any are ironed out. The current version which have been already inducted is very capable bird. The pace of integration of newer capabilities in the form of weapons and systems is pretty good.'

I'll agree with you once it sees combat to prove itself. Until then. Its a paper tiger.

' Your claim of PL-15 and other capabilities with BlK III are just the claims. Has it been confirmed? Will it have a radar to complement such a missile? What will power such a powerful radar?'

The pl15 has been confirmed by kaiser tufail during an interview on the JF17 blk3.

Also lmao, what will power it? Um the Klj7a? Which has a reported 170km to 200km range. That as well as the fact that the missile has an active seeker? You fr?


' MK I A will be leagues ahead of the current versions of JF-17. The current Tejas is also ahead of current JFs in all areas except maritime strike capability and few other minor aspects.'

Your mk1a variant will still lag behind the JF17 blk3 lmao. Again outranged and outgunned by the JF17. I mean props to you adding the RWR to the aircraft. Just hope it won't be jammed like abhinandans.

Alao lol at the current tejas being better than our jf17 blk 2. Okay bud. Okay [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[VkdIndian]

Your mk1a variant will still lag behind the JF17 blk3 lmao.

WILL lag behind? Could you please lay down the features of JF-17 Blk III? Official and credible sources would be welcome while claiming sky high performance.
I would be a little cautious while making such sweeping statements. Jingoism shouldn’t be the right frame of mind while doing such comparisons.

Also sources for the thrust to weight ratio

You quoted thrust to wt ratio of more than 1. Where is that given? Please don’t quote a random YouTube video for that. Some credible source would do.

In clean config Thr to Wt ratio of Tejas is more than 1.

Um the Klj7a? Which has a reported 170km to 200km range. That as well as the fact that the missile has an active seeker?

My question was reading powering such a powerful radar. If you read up regarding AESA, one of the biggest concern is providing adequate power with the existing engines. The proposed radar has a range of 170-200 kms. The quoted range of PL-15 is much more than that. Seems that the radar couldn’t be scaled up to match the missile ranges. Doesn’t sound good.

Such as the pl10 being visible during its test flight the new radar etc.

At one place you said PL-15 and here you mentioned PL-10. The fact is that whatever is being claimed is just a claim as of now. I would wait for official release of capabilities to start the celebration.

Are you also gonna tell me a delta wing has a better sustained turn than a swept wing fighter jet?

Rate of turn is not only a factor of wing design but Thr to Wt ratio too. Then there are lift augmentation devices and a capable fly by wire to exploit the entire flight envelope of a platform. I am sure that you are aware that Tejas is ahead of JF in all these areas.

The current versions of JF-17 and Tejas capabilities are very close to each other on various factors. Claiming outright superiority across the board would be a folly here. MK I A and Block III comparison at this stage is again a guess work considering that Block III details are still not available officially.

PS - Why have you quoted my post thrice in the beginning and then copy pasted parts of my post again? It makes you post unnecessarily lengthy and confusing with repetitions that can be avoided.

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Just watch the wing tips teja fans ....

 

[Euro fighter]

Watch: Tejas aircraft fires Python-5 air-to-air missile during trials

Indigenously-developed light combat aircraft Tejas has been cleared to carry fifth generation Python-5 air-to-air missile as part of its weapons package that would significantly enhance the combat prowess of the jet, officials said on Wednesday. DRDO released a video where Tejas aircraft can be...

www.hindustantimes.com

Check this boys the 5th generation python 5 being fired by Tejas 27th April

Tejas firing Derby BVR

 

[Tornado23]

WILL lag behind? Could you please lay down the features of JF-17 Blk III? Official and credible sources would be welcome while claiming sky high performance.
I would be a little cautious while making such sweeping statements. Jingoism shouldn’t be the right frame of mind while doing such comparisons.


You quoted thrust to wt ratio of more than 1. Where is that given? Please don’t quote a random YouTube video for that. Some credible source would do.

In clean config Thr to Wt ratio of Tejas is more than 1.
My question was reading powering such a powerful radar. If you read up regarding AESA, one of the biggest concern is providing adequate power with the existing engines. The proposed radar has a range of 170-200 kms. The quoted range of PL-15 is much more than that. Seems that the radar couldn’t be scaled up to match the missile ranges. Doesn’t sound good.

At one place you said PL-15 and here you mentioned PL-10. The fact is that whatever is being claimed is just a claim as of now. I would wait for official release of capabilities to start the celebration.


Rate of turn is not only a factor of wing design but Thr to Wt ratio too. Then there are lift augmentation devices and a capable fly by wire to exploit the entire flight envelope of a platform. I am sure that you are aware that Tejas is ahead of JF in all these areas.

The current versions of JF-17 and Tejas capabilities are very close to each other on various factors. Claiming outright superiority across the board would be a folly here. MK I A and Block III comparison at this stage is again a guess work considering that Block III details are still not available officially.

PS - Why have you quoted my post thrice in the beginning and then copy pasted parts of my post again? It makes you post unnecessarily lengthy and confusing with repetitions that can be avoided.

WILL lag behind? Could you please lay down the features of JF-17 Blk III? Official and credible sources would be welcome while claiming sky high performance.
I would be a little cautious while making such sweeping statements. Jingoism shouldn’t be the right frame of mind while doing such comparisons.


You quoted thrust to wt ratio of more than 1. Where is that given? Please don’t quote a random YouTube video for that. Some credible source would do.

In clean config Thr to Wt ratio of Tejas is more than 1.
My question was reading powering such a powerful radar. If you read up regarding AESA, one of the biggest concern is providing adequate power with the existing engines. The proposed radar has a range of 170-200 kms. The quoted range of PL-15 is much more than that. Seems that the radar couldn’t be scaled up to match the missile ranges. Doesn’t sound good.

At one place you said PL-15 and here you mentioned PL-10. The fact is that whatever is being claimed is just a claim as of now. I would wait for official release of capabilities to start the celebration.


Rate of turn is not only a factor of wing design but Thr to Wt ratio too. Then there are lift augmentation devices and a capable fly by wire to exploit the entire flight envelope of a platform. I am sure that you are aware that Tejas is ahead of JF in all these areas.

The current versions of JF-17 and Tejas capabilities are very close to each other on various factors. Claiming outright superiority across the board would be a folly here. MK I A and Block III comparison at this stage is again a guess work considering that Block III details are still not available officially.

PS - Why have you quoted my post thrice in the beginning and then copy pasted parts of my post again? It makes you post unnecessarily lengthy and confusing with repetitions that can be avoided.

Featured of blk3. I will only give you a vague glimpse, emphasis on glimpse, on some of the features of the blk3.

Pl15
PL10
Klj7a aesa
Advanced ew suite. That's all I will say .

'Official and credible sources would be welcome while claiming sky high performance.'

Dude. I gave you a credible source for the T/W ratio of the JF17 blk2 and you dismissed it. You didn't even acknowledge it lmao.

'Jingoism shouldn’t be the right frame of mind while doing such comparisons.'

Pot calling kettle black.

'You quoted thrust to wt ratio of more than 1. Where is that given? Please don’t quote a random YouTube video for that. Some credible source would do.'

I literally gave the official PAC link for the technical data of the jf17blk2 including its T/W ratio.

Here I will link it again.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - JF-17 Thunder Aircraft

www.pac.org.pk

Do you know what? I'll literally put it out for you

Specifications


Physical Parameters
Length49ft
Height15.5 ft
Wingspan31 ft
Empty Weight14,520 lb
Performance Parameters
Maximum Take Off Weight27,300 lb
Max Mach No1.6
Maximum Speed700 Knots IAS
Service Ceiling55,500 ft
*Thrust to Weight Ratio0.95*
Maximum Engine Thrust19,000 lbs
G Limit+8/-3
Ferry Range1,880 NM
ArmamentNo of Stations07
Total Load Capacity3400 lbs

Also the T/W ratio is whilst it has 50% internal fuel and carrying 2 SRAAMS.


My question was reading powering such a powerful radar. If you read up regarding AESA, one of the biggest concern is providing adequate power with the existing engines. The proposed radar has a range of 170-200 kms. The quoted range of PL-15 is much more than that. Seems that the radar couldn’t be scaled up to match the missile ranges. Doesn’t sound good.


I guess you know more than both PAC and CAC. The aesa radar is modified to fit into the blk3. You can literally research about it, it's not that hard.

The range of the radar is 200km. The range of the pl15 is somewhere between 200-350km. The pl15 has an ACTIVE radar. Meaning it's fire and forget. It will track on its own at a certain range. The aesa radar on the JF17 will aid it in the long run.

'At one place you said PL-15 and here you mentioned PL-10. The fact is that whatever is being claimed is just a claim as of now. I would wait for official release of capabilities to start the celebration.'

Wtf you talking about? Pl15 has been confirmed by Kaiser Tufail. The PL10 was literally shown on the jf 17 a few days ago.

'Rate of turn is not only a factor of wing design but Thr to Wt ratio too. Then there are lift augmentation devices and a capable fly by wire to exploit the entire flight envelope of a platform. I am sure that you are aware that Tejas is ahead of JF in all these areas.'

And as per what I shown you, the tejas has a lower thrust to weight ratio than the jf 17.

My dude. The FBW system is there to stabilise the air craft and so the pilot won't push the aircraft to operate outside its flight envelope. Not to mention how the JF17 has the FBW system as well. Nothing new...

The delta wing will help its instant turn. It will hamper its sustained turn massively and due to the high drag acting on the tejas, it will bleed energy quickly.

'The current versions of JF-17 and Tejas capabilities are very close to each other on various factors. Claiming outright superiority across the board would be a folly here. MK I A and Block III comparison at this stage is again a guess work considering that Block III details are still not available officially.'


Ahhh. From the current tejas variant being superior to the JF17 blk2 to you now compromising , saying they are both similar. I see you learnt how to backtrack from modi himself. Only this time it's not about ballistic missiles.

Jf17 has better a2g capability and anti shipping/maritime capability than the current tejas. It also incorporates a more advanced ew suite and RWR. So yes. It is superior in this regard.

Mk1a and blk3 I agree is guess work. But even then the blk3 still looking like the pog champ.


'PS - Why have you quoted my post thrice in the beginning and then copy pasted parts of my post again? It makes you post unnecessarily lengthy and confusing with repetitions that can be avoided'

Don't know about you G, but for me I'm on the phone app variant of pak def and for some reason when I go to click edit (to view ur full reply whilst I'm replying) it just shows a blank screen. So I save the stuff I did, and reopen it again where it quotes your full reply again. Sorry but it is what it is

 

[Goritoes]

So who's winning? a fighter with Truck or Fighter without Truck

 

[VkdIndian]

Holy... Moly.... You are dumb.

Why are you calling me dumb?
Because I have disagreed with you?

Dude. I gave you a credible source for the T/W ratio of the JF17 blk2 and you dismissed it. You didn't even acknowledge it lmao.

You quoted a Thr to Wt ratio with WS-13 engine. Did you produce a source for that?
Now who is dumb here?

You are so stupid

. I literally gave the official PAC link for the technical data of the jf17blk2 including its T/W ratio.

Here I will link it again.

For last few posts you have been constantly posting BS.
Whatever suits you is claimed as a credible performance. Wherever you feel like you show as if your credible info was denied. You claimed Thr to Wt ratio of more than 1. I asked for its source. You couldn’t produce one.

Are you dumb or an idiot who doesn’t understand simple English inspite of being explained clearly.

The range of the radar is 200km. The range of the pl15 is somewhere between 200-350km. The pl15 has an ACTIVE radar. Meaning it's fire and forget. It will track on its own at a certain range. The aesa radar on the JF17 will aid it in the long run.

Now I feel like calling a a dumb shit.
JF-17 can’t track a target more than 200 Km due to radar limitation but it can fire at a target more than 200 Kms. And missile will find out a target more than that range on its own and then track it too.
What did you eat today? Go and get your glucose level checked. Your brain is failing you.

The PL10 was literally shown on the jf 17 a few days ago.

Literally shown by whom amd where? In your dreams?

My dude. The FBW system is there to stabilise the air craft and so the pilot won't push the aircraft to operate outside its flight envelope. Not to mention how the JF17 has the FBW system as well. Nothing new...

You are wrong again. Tejas has a FBW in all axis while JF is limited only in one axis. Who told you that FBW is only for stabilising? You are a dumb crack who doesn’t know anything.

I wouldn’t go on further with your post because it is filled with nothing else but pure BS. Your posts are full of unproven info.

You are wasting others time here while you don’t even know how to quote a post and keep posting lengthy posts which are full of BS.

 

[Tornado23]

Why are you calling me dumb?
Because I have disagreed with you?


You quoted a Thr to Wt ratio with WS-13 engine. Did you produce a source for that?
Now who is dumb here?
For last few posts you have been constantly posting BS.
Whatever suits you is claimed as a credible performance. Wherever you feel like you show as if your credible info was denied. You claimed Thr to Wt ratio of more than 1. I asked for its source. You couldn’t produce one.

Are you dumb or an idiot who doesn’t understand simple English inspite of being explained clearly.
Now I feel like calling a a dumb shit.
JF-17 can’t track a target more than 200 Km due to radar limitation but it can fire at a target more than 200 Kms. And missile will find out a target more than that range on its own and then track it too. [emoji12][emoji12]
What did you eat today? Go and get your glucose level checked. Your brain is failing you.

Literally shown by whom amd where? In your dreams?
You are wrong again. Tejas has a FBW in all axis while JF is limited only in one axis. Who told you that FBW is only for stabilising? You are a dumb crack who doesn’t know anything.

I wouldn’t go on further with your post because it is filled with nothing else but pure BS. Your posts are full of unproven info.

You are wasting others time here while you don’t even know how to quote a post and keep posting lengthy posts which are full of BS.

Why are you calling me dumb?
Because I have disagreed with you?


You quoted a Thr to Wt ratio with WS-13 engine. Did you produce a source for that?
Now who is dumb here?
For last few posts you have been constantly posting BS.
Whatever suits you is claimed as a credible performance. Wherever you feel like you show as if your credible info was denied. You claimed Thr to Wt ratio of more than 1. I asked for its source. You couldn’t produce one.

Are you dumb or an idiot who doesn’t understand simple English inspite of being explained clearly.
Now I feel like calling a a dumb shit.
JF-17 can’t track a target more than 200 Km due to radar limitation but it can fire at a target more than 200 Kms. And missile will find out a target more than that range on its own and then track it too. [emoji12][emoji12]
What did you eat today? Go and get your glucose level checked. Your brain is failing you.

Literally shown by whom amd where? In your dreams?
You are wrong again. Tejas has a FBW in all axis while JF is limited only in one axis. Who told you that FBW is only for stabilising? You are a dumb crack who doesn’t know anything.

I wouldn’t go on further with your post because it is filled with nothing else but pure BS. Your posts are full of unproven info.

You are wasting others time here while you don’t even know how to quote a post and keep posting lengthy posts which are full of BS.

Why are you calling me dumb?
Because I have disagreed with you?


You quoted a Thr to Wt ratio with WS-13 engine. Did you produce a source for that?
Now who is dumb here?
For last few posts you have been constantly posting BS.
Whatever suits you is claimed as a credible performance. Wherever you feel like you show as if your credible info was denied. You claimed Thr to Wt ratio of more than 1. I asked for its source. You couldn’t produce one.

Are you dumb or an idiot who doesn’t understand simple English inspite of being explained clearly.
Now I feel like calling a a dumb shit.
JF-17 can’t track a target more than 200 Km due to radar limitation but it can fire at a target more than 200 Kms. And missile will find out a target more than that range on its own and then track it too. [emoji12][emoji12]
What did you eat today? Go and get your glucose level checked. Your brain is failing you.

Literally shown by whom amd where? In your dreams?
You are wrong again. Tejas has a FBW in all axis while JF is limited only in one axis. Who told you that FBW is only for stabilising? You are a dumb crack who doesn’t know anything.

I wouldn’t go on further with your post because it is filled with nothing else but pure BS. Your posts are full of unproven info.

No I'm calling you dumb, because you are genuinely dumb. You are being stupid and ignorant.


'You quoted a Thr to Wt ratio with WS-13 engine. Did you produce a source for that?
Now who is dumb here?
For last few posts you have been constantly posting BS.
Whatever suits you is claimed as a credible performance. Wherever you feel like you show as if your credible info was denied. You claimed Thr to Wt ratio of more than 1. I asked for its source. You couldn’t produce one.'

Oh so now its about the ws13 engine source? Ah yes, be completely vague about your question. Just ask for a link for the T/W ratio. Not about the specific ws13 T/W ratio WHICH I STILL GAVE YOU.

Do you know what? Here. Here is the actual video with the ws13

https://www.reddit.com/r/PakistaniMilitary/comments/jhqh25

'Are you dumb or an idiot who doesn’t understand simple English inspite of being explained clearly.
Now I feel like calling a a dumb shit.
JF-17 can’t track a target more than 200 Km due to radar limitation but it can fire at a target more than 200 Kms. And missile will find out a target more than that range on its own and then track it too. [emoji12][emoji12]
What did you eat today? Go and get your glucose level checked. Your brain is failing you.'

Are you that retarded to not see the pl15 has an active seeker warhead which means it doesn't need the radar of the JF17 or any other jet for that matter to track the target? Up until a certain point in the pl15s flight, its own ARH will activate. It will track the target by its self. Hence why its fire and forget. The Klj7a will aid the pl15 to a certain range before the pl15 tracks the target by itself further increasing the range.

Also I haven't eaten since 3:50 in the morning, I am fasting.

'Literally shown by whom amd where? In your dreams?'

Here is the pl10 on the jf17blk3

https://www.reddit.com/r/PakistaniMilitary/comments/mzs8vs

Funnily enough if you had went onto the blk3 development thread on pak def, you would've seen the JF17 with the pl10 equipped.

'You are wrong again. Tejas has a FBW in all axis while JF is limited only in one axis. Who told you that FBW is only for stabilising? You are a dumb crack who doesn’t know anything.'

Where you succeed in one thing you fail in the rest [emoji17]

Also I know the JF17 has a single FBW as of now. Blk3 will have full FBW system incorporated into it. You were making out it never had a FBW to begin with lul.

Also FBW is for stabilising the aircraft and also so the pilot doesnt push the aircraft beyond its limit/ flight envelope. I never said it was ONLY for stab. I srsly doubt the average 82iq of India. Urs is far below it.

I am a dumb crack? What?

'I wouldn’t go on further with your post because it is filled with nothing else but pure BS. Your posts are full of unproven info.'

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Ok moron. You fail to realise you made that happen yourself by ignoring my links from PAC itself when you requested it [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

' You are wasting others time here while you don’t even know how to quote a post and keep posting lengthy posts which are full of BS'

You haven't posted a single quote yourself [emoji23][emoji23][/QUOTE]