Indian LCA Tejas Or Pakistani JF-17: Who Is Winning The Malaysian Fighter Jet Contract?

[Tornado23]

Kaiser Tufail has clearly brought it out in his blogspot about the air skirmish on that fateful day. No SU-30 was hit by any BVR.

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/ .

Excerpts from his article on his blogspot on the air skirmish.


“Meanwhile, the pair of patrolling Su-30s were completely shocked when they were targeted by an F-16 with an AIM-120 missile at long range. Narrowly surviving an apparent proximity hit, both Su-30s scampered out of the area, leaving the field to the Mirage 2000 pair.”

There is a dedicated thread on which it has been discussed in detail.

Idk if its your inability to read and comprehend basic English, because it quite clearly states that the proxy fuse of the aim 120 hit the su30mki. He himself has said that the su30mki was hit by the AMRAAM. He hasn't confirmed whether it was shot down or not as that remains to be a mystery.

Although multiple eye witness accounts do say it was shot down. We will never know as we weren't there.

 

[Areesh]

Looks like they were wary of getting closer to the MKIs

Just like pilots of Mirages and MKIs who ran away citing different excuses that they could of think at that time?

 

[Windjammer]

Lol..poor little thing.

Your passing wind troubles have made you all grumpy.

Seems all the gas has now lodged into your little brain....loser can't even make up his mind.

 

[El Sidd]

JF17 or 'Thunder' has seen modern combat very closely.

Tejas seem to have political prowess to compensate for obvious engineering flaws.

 

[VkdIndian]

He himself has said that the su30mki was hit by the AMRAAM.

Narrowly surviving a proximity fuse means that the aircraft survived. When he says narrowly then it is to convey that it was a close call.

Although multiple eye witness accounts do say it was shot down. We will never know as we weren't there.

Yes you are right. You were not there to see. Can you hide an air crash? The DG ISPR had said in his briefing that “in these days it is not possible to even hide a car accident”. He gave this logic while defending the claim that one F-16 was also shot down on that day.

He did say that one Indian pilot was in a military hospital while the other pilot Abhinandan is in custody. This was also confirmed by your PM, IK on the floor of your Senate.
What happened to that guy in the MH remains a mystery to this day? Who was that pilot?

This discussion about air skirmish is off topic and may lead to ban on FMs of certain flags. Hence this discussion can’t continue from my side on this thread.

The argument that JF-17 has seen combat is correct. But there are a lot of aircraft that haven’t. Has any Chinese mainstream fighter developed in-house seen any combat situation? They haven’t. Does that mean that they are a piece of crap? I guess not.

While evaluating Malaysians will see which package is more potent. The better one would prove good in combat situations also when there is a requirement.

 

[Windjammer]

Just like pilots of Mirages and MKIs who ran away citing different excuses that they could of think at that time?

Let the Indians blow hot and cold over this...hell only Indians can take pride in the claim that their top of the range air superiority fighter was busy dodging missiles over own territory and not even able to fire one back ..the fact is their lies have also been exposed by none other than their Jewish boyfriend......notwithstanding Delhi drama queens, the Israelis are alarmed at the fact that their gadgets installed in the so called Raptor of the East completely failed to counter American weapons.

 

[ummarz]

I stand corrected. So 2 AMRAAMs were fired from within 30 km range and still the Su-30MKIs evaded them.

Since you believe the former IAF pilot so much, you too must believe that this validated the AMRAAM evasion tactics that the IAF's MKI pilots displayed. 5 AMRAAMs fired, all were evaded.

In fact, with AMRAAMs fired at less than 30 kms being evaded, I wonder why so much is made of the first shoot advantage. If those MKIs had been able to achieve firing solutions for the R-77s, the PAF F-16s would have also had to turn cold and evade them.

There is nothing wrong in evading missiles. But IAF made patches to celebrate that "mighty" achievement... so now we get to make fun of IAF "dodgers".

Secondly you keep mentioning about the AIM 120 proximity fuse going off etc. First of all Kaiser is not in the airforce anymore. But lets say his account is true. All that means is that PAF took a good shot and IAF jet got hit by the missile (since the proximity fuse went off). Most likely the jet made it back to base injured. That doesn't speak highly of the Indian Air Force, either it was luck or that Russians make sturdy planes.

I will however agree with you, that it would be very very difficult to hide a plane crash in this day and age. But India does sensor the communications in occupied Kashmir, so can't be sure of that either. So for me I am 50/50 either the jet made it back to base and got scraped, or it crashed but India hid it.

 

[Tornado23]

Narrowly surviving a proximity fuse means that the aircraft survived. When he says narrowly then it is to convey that it was a close call.


Yes you are right. You were not there to see. Can you hide an air crash? The DG ISPR had said in his briefing that “in these days it is not possible to even hide a car accident”. He gave this logic while defending the claim that one F-16 was also shot down on that day.

He did say that one Indian pilot was in a military hospital while the other pilot Abhinandan is in custody. This was also confirmed by your PM, IK on the floor of your Senate.
What happened to that guy in the MH remains a mystery to this day? Who was that pilot?

This discussion about air skirmish is off topic and may lead to ban on FMs of certain flags. Hence this discussion can’t continue from my side on this thread.

The argument that JF-17 has seen combat is correct. But there are a lot of aircraft that haven’t. Has any Chinese mainstream fighter developed in-house seen any combat situation? They haven’t. Does that mean that they are a piece of crap? I guess not.

While evaluating Malaysians will see which package is more potent. The better one would prove good in combat situations also when there is a requirement.

Narrowly surviving a proximity fuse means that the aircraft survived. When he says narrowly then it is to convey that it was a close call.


Yes you are right. You were not there to see. Can you hide an air crash? The DG ISPR had said in his briefing that “in these days it is not possible to even hide a car accident”. He gave this logic while defending the claim that one F-16 was also shot down on that day.

He did say that one Indian pilot was in a military hospital while the other pilot Abhinandan is in custody. This was also confirmed by your PM, IK on the floor of your Senate.
What happened to that guy in the MH remains a mystery to this day? Who was that pilot?

This discussion about air skirmish is off topic and may lead to ban on FMs of certain flags. Hence this discussion can’t continue from my side on this thread.

The argument that JF-17 has seen combat is correct. But there are a lot of aircraft that haven’t. Has any Chinese mainstream fighter developed in-house seen any combat situation? They haven’t. Does that mean that they are a piece of crap? I guess not.

While evaluating Malaysians will see which package is more potent. The better one would prove good in combat situations also when there is a requirement.

Not necessarily. The air craft could've easily crashed back at base. As I have said we will never know as we weren't there.

It's known the proxy fuse detonated on the su30. It is unknown whether the su30 made it back to base.


Regarding the pilot in CMH, that was abhinandan. He initially said 2 pilots were caught. That was misinformation. Abhinandan was both a POW and administered aid to treat his wounds.

You Indians keep blabbering about the same muh 2 pilots. If any of you are as clever as you claim yourselves to be, then you understand it was misformation down the lines. Something you lot should know considering a certain fratricide that happened that same day.

I'd highly doubt the tejas will be chosen. It still needs to be actually operated in strength by their own country first

 

[VkdIndian]

You Indians keep blabbering about the same muh 2 pilots. If any of you are as clever as you claim yourselves to be, then you understand it was misformation down the lines. Something you lot should know considering a certain fratricide that happened that same day.

There is no blabbering from this side. From this side there has been one and only one statement. One MiG-21 lost to air battle, one chopper to fratricide and one F-16 shot down.

Backtracking galore happened on the other side. When a PM makes a seement in senate and a DG rank officer makes an official statement, they have to be sure of what they utter. After the DGs press conference, the PM made the statement much later. There was enough time in between to get the clear picture as to who was caught and who was where. So we are sure that what they said initially was truth. Sure they were except that they didn’t calculate that they would have to backtrack due to reasons if I say here would make some people go through the roof.

He initially said 2 pilots were caught. That was misinformation.

Was DG fed the misinformation? OR Was he feeding it?

There have been enough discussions on this subject on this forum on dedicated threads.
I don’t think that this is the right place to discuss it. Very soon it would turn into my word against your word. I am at peace with my understanding of the whole incident. Please be at peace with yours since I am not buying your story here.

I'd highly doubt the tejas will be chosen. It still needs to be actually operated in strength by their own country first

Two squadrons raised, order placed for 83 more. Future development in full earnest that includes better weapons and sub-systems. I think that this more than enough confidence displayed by the IAF in the platform.

There are some other dimensions to this deal. Which include geo-political aspects between Malaysia, Pakistan, China and India. Sometimes these become the overriding factor over everything else.

 

[Mr.Cringeworth]

There's some wind jammed up your tailpipe it seems.

The name is wind jammer not wind jammed so as his name implies he probably jammed some wind under your tailpipe to cause such a reaction. @Windjammer

 

[Tornado23]

There is no blabbering from this side. From this side there has been one and only one statement. One MiG-21 lost to air battle, one chopper to fratricide and one F-16 shot down.

Backtracking galore happened on the other side. When a PM makes a seement in senate and a DG rank officer makes an official statement, they have to be sure of what they utter. After the DGs press conference, the PM made the statement much later. There was enough time in between to get the clear picture as to who was caught and who was where. So we are sure that what they said initially was truth. Sure they were except that they didn’t calculate that they would have to backtrack due to reasons if I say here would make some people go through the roof.



Was DG fed the misinformation? OR Was he feeding it?

There have been enough discussions on this subject on this forum on dedicated threads.
I don’t think that this is the right place to discuss it. Very soon it would turn into my word against your word. I am at peace with my understanding of the whole incident. Please be at peace with yours since I am not buying your story here.



Two squadrons raised, order placed for 83 more. Future development in full earnest that includes better weapons and sub-systems. I think that this more than enough confidence displayed by the IAF in the platform.

There are some other dimensions to this deal. Which include geo-political aspects between Malaysia, Pakistan, China and India. Sometimes these become the overriding factor over everything else.

There is no blabbering from this side. From this side there has been one and only one statement. One MiG-21 lost to air battle, one chopper to fratricide and one F-16 shot down.

Backtracking galore happened on the other side. When a PM makes a seement in senate and a DG rank officer makes an official statement, they have to be sure of what they utter. After the DGs press conference, the PM made the statement much later. There was enough time in between to get the clear picture as to who was caught and who was where. So we are sure that what they said initially was truth. Sure they were except that they didn’t calculate that they would have to backtrack due to reasons if I say here would make some people go through the roof.



Was DG fed the misinformation? OR Was he feeding it?

There have been enough discussions on this subject on this forum on dedicated threads.
I don’t think that this is the right place to discuss it. Very soon it would turn into my word against your word. I am at peace with my understanding of the whole incident. Please be at peace with yours since I am not buying your story here.



Two squadrons raised, order placed for 83 more. Future development in full earnest that includes better weapons and sub-systems. I think that this more than enough confidence displayed by the IAF in the platform.

There are some other dimensions to this deal. Which include geo-political aspects between Malaysia, Pakistan, China and India. Sometimes these become the overriding factor over everything else.

Ah yes. The so called one story throughout myth.

Idk about you, but I remember reading 2 articles in 2 different days. The first being the news of the 2 jets being shot down, both being iaf.

The second of the iaf saying the mig 21 crashed and did not get shot down. Later turned into the only aircraft shot down, to them stating 2 were shot down the other being an f16.

Firstly there is no evidence presented by India that hasn't already been refuted.

Secondly the iaf/media said abhinandan crashed, later changing it to him being shot down.

Thirdly the backtracking came when you issued ur bm threat, but backtracked when we issued ours .

Also misinformation/confusion happens a lot during combat. See the gulf war. Many friendly fire incidents. And ur fratricide was due to misinformation/confusion.

When abhinandan was shot down and captured, he admitted to both CMH and was a POW. It was translated as 2 pilots captured. The statement was later changed to 1 pow. Unlike urs with ur f16 lul.

Also lmao trying to act smart with, it was muh DGISPR feeding the misformation reeee. Come on dude. All he said was the truth. 1 pilot captured, 2 iaf jets shot down.

Unlike urs with the blatant misinformation campaign. Reeee f16 shot down with r73e missile whilst the pilot was being heavily jammed and no idea where he was when he was shot down reeeee. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Oh trust me. I'm at peace with the 27th of Feb incident.

2 iaf jets shot down

Iaf humiliated

India humiliated

Indian military installations bombed.

I'm sorry but the IAF and IN both have rejected the Tejas multiple times. The ones they have currently have been forced down their throats. In been in development hell for thirty plus years now. And on top of that it sucks.

I mean limited range, limited bvr weaponry, plus Israeli radar. Malaysia doesn't even recognise Israel. And if you say muh uttam aesa.... Lol at that

 

[Arsalan345]

If they were fired far from the no escape zone, it's not surprising. And it was the case.

Do you still trust your media? 5 amraam? Hahaha. It's a joke bro.

 

[VkdIndian]

I'm sorry but the IAF and IN both have rejected the Tejas multiple times. The ones they have currently have been forced down their throats. In been in development hell for thirty plus years now. And on top of that it sucks.

Don’t sound frustrated and disheartened.

Tejas has been inducted after initial hiccups. What was the hiccup? That IAF didn’t want to choose an aircraft that had not been fully developed as per its requirements. Does that mean that it was not as good as JF-17?
NO.

PAF inducted the JF with multiple deficiencies too. Why did it induct them? Because PAF had no other choice. With US not willing and coffers empty it had to take the JF route to survive.

On the contrary India could buy aircraft from various manufacturers across the world. The Congress government failed in providing that support and induct them in time leading to depleted squadron strength in IAF.

This aspect has been discussed threadbare on the Tejas thread multiple times so don’t rake it up again here. Please visit the thread amd do your research.

And on top of that it sucks.

It sucks yes. For you all. For us it is doing well.

I mean limited range

Yes I have seen multiple posts on PDF claiming JF to have a combat range of 1500 Kms. It hasn’t been confirmed by anyone on PDF with little professional credibility. It’s claim of being better than even F-16 in range is nothing but a BS.

limited bvr weaponry

Limited? What do you mean by that? What is the limit you want exceeded? What BVRs JF has that have no limit?

And if you say muh uttam aesa

Your not approving UTTAM has no meaning.Uttam is coming up well and would be the backbone of all upcoming fighters being developed in India.

 

[ummarz]

The choice between Tejas and JF-17 should be an easy one. Its JF-17! I will try to be as unbiased as I can.

China has a much richer history of making fighter jets than India does. JF-17 already has a lot of service hours under its belt, Tejas does not and that matters a lot. Many issues only creep up after many hours of flying. JF-17 has also had multiple upgrades and add ons without any serious revisions. Which speaks highly of the original concept and design. Even the latest block III is fixing to have the same over all shape and design from what has been revealed so far. JF-17 also has excellent reliability and the cost to maintain is affordable.

So keeping just the above in mind (and there are many other reasons) it would be silly to go for Tejas over JF-17. Unless politics matters to you. And that might come into the decision making process. Malaysia has three major demographic groups. The Malay, the Indian (South Indian), and the Chinese. I hope they make the decision logically and rationally.

PS. JF-17 bombed Indian military depots and bases in Feb 27 2019, Tejas was not reachable by the phone!

 

[Nomad40]

No no and no..... Trust vectoring will take apart this tiny bird.

HMDS will level out this playing field. This is where emphasis needs to be plus HOBS.

Hello there!

Besides me I think you are the few who have acknowledged and embraced what the JF-17 is (tiny bird) / Light fighter.

People are dreaming of a dozen hard points, TVC, 6 BVRs and the list of it to be something which it isn't meant for continues.

I would just like to say thank you for calling the Jf-17 a Tiny bird!